Waived: Matt D'Agostini Waived (Claimed by Buffalo)

[wgknestrick]

1 "toy" thrown away.


3 to go until Bylsma has no choice but to play his best players.


Engo
Glass
Adams

In that order. Kobasew might be in that list too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You'll find, once he's healthy and ready to get back into the lineup, that Kobasew will definitely qualify for that list. I liked that as a little fourth line/scratch signing for depth. But you can pretty much bank it that Disco is going to overuse him badly.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Raymond only got a ****ing try-out, and you're trying to argue that he wouldn't have signed a contract if Shero offered him one?

The endless excuses for Shero baffle me sometimes.

Let me be clear: I'm not a Shero apologist. I'm infuriated by our inability to draft competent NHL forwards. I'm infuriated by breaking from our MO and suddenly giving multiple multi-year deals to aging veterans. I'm infuriated by our inability to populate the bottom-6 with anything other than talentless try-hard hacks. I'm infuriated to see that the team doesn't play with a burr under their saddle...that they're soft and easy to play against. But I'm *not* prepared to chastise Ray Shero because Mason Raymond has looked like a good signing by Toronto after 25 games.

Take a look up and down the rosters of the other 29 teams. Most have dead weight. Most have at least one or two bloated contracts on the books (either in terms of $, term, or both). Our current problem is forward depth. A pending problem for us may be a few bloated contracts on the books. That's basically par for the course, and both problems are theoretically escapable. I'd much rather have our problems and our roster than most others in the league.

 

[wgknestrick]

Let me be clear: I'm not a Shero apologist. I'm infuriated by our inability to draft competent NHL forwards. I'm infuriated by breaking from our MO and suddenly giving multiple multi-year deals to aging veterans. I'm infuriated by our inability to populate the bottom-6 with anything other than talentless try-hard hacks. I'm infuriated to see that the team doesn't play with a burr under their saddle...that they're soft and easy to play against. But I'm *not* prepared to chastise Ray Shero because Mason Raymond has looked like a good signing by Toronto after 25 games.

Take a look up and down the rosters of the other 29 teams. Most have dead weight. Most have at least one or two bloated contracts on the books (either in terms of $, term, or both). Our current problem is forward depth. A pending problem for us may be a few bloated contracts on the books. That's basically par for the course, and both problems are theoretically escapable. I'd much rather have our problems and our roster than most others in the league.

This team is not a "Mason Raymond" away from being elite.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

You'll find, once he's healthy and ready to get back into the lineup, that Kobasew will definitely qualify for that list. I liked that as a little fourth line/scratch signing for depth. But you can pretty much bank it that Disco is going to overuse him badly.

I thought Kobasew looked decent on the third line at the beginning of the season. The problem was that injuries had him up on the second for a while. He's fine in the bottom six even if he's not necessarily what one thinks the team needs in the bottom six.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Maybe. I hope he can keep that level of play up because I did think he was decent on the third line. I kinda think he slots in more as a fourth line player, though.

Don't mistake me... I hope he comes back firing on all cylinders. The bottom six desperately needs a shakeup, obviously. Especially the third line. Poor Sutter.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Kobasew looked great on the third line and like butt on the second line...which is fitting because he's the definition of a third liner.

I think we'd all prefer him on the 4th line, but him on the 3rd is a huge improvement over D'Agostini or random offensively challenged WBS call-up in that role.

 

[Captain Hook]

Raymond still wanted paid. Not all these guys that go in on tryouts are looking to take low ball, league minimum offers. A lot of them may prefer taking a tryout over some low ball contract because it at least gives them an opportunity to go into that team's camp and preseason games and try to convince a team that they're worth what they're asking for. Raymond eventually convinced Toronto to give him a one year, one million deal.

It's also important to remember that the Pens were still over the salary cap in September. We didn't know Vokoun was going to go down and we'd get some LTIR cap relief.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

This team is not a "Mason Raymond" away from being elite.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with this conversation.

FWIW, I really think our roster is 2-3 players and 1 coaching adjustment away from being "elite." We need another bonafide top 6 winger. We need an infusion of at least 1 (and likely 2) impact players in the bottom 6. We need a coach who can motivate this team to play with a spark. These are very frustrating problems, but problems I'll live with because they're better than those of almost every other team. I'm optimistic that GMRS will work on fixing these issues, although I am admittedly concerned about the lame duck coaching situation thanks to Shero/Bylsma working together at the Olympics.

 

[IcedCapp]

I like Raymond's ability to move up and down the lineup better than say, and I'm just pulling these names out of a hat randomly, Chuck Kobasew or Matt D'Agostini

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I like Raymond's ability to move up and down the lineup better than say, and I'm just pulling these names out of a hat randomly, Chuck Kobasew or Matt D'Agostini

Ya but Raymond would have much rather taken a try-out than a real contract.

Shero can't force players to sign here!!!!

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

They kept him over Jeffrey why again?

Dags is a veteran

 

[Malkin4Top6Wingerz]

Pretty damning indictment of D'Agostini that even with all of the forward injuries we were just hit with he's still being sent packing.

As for Raymond, I wouldn't have minded taking a flyer on him but there's some serious 20/20 hindsight going on if people are going to be outraged over it. He's basically been a poor man's Dupuis for his tenure in Vancouver and we all know how well liked he is around here.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Kobasew looked great on the third line and like butt on the second line...which is fitting because he's the definition of a third liner.

I think we'd all prefer him on the 4th line, but him on the 3rd is a huge improvement over D'Agostini or random offensively challenged WBS call-up in that role.

I guess I just don't classify Megna as a random offensively challenged WBS callup.

 

[Hottubber]

Pretty damning indictment of D'Agostini that even with all of the forward injuries we were just hit with he's still being sent packing.

As for Raymond, I wouldn't have minded taking a flyer on him but there's some serious 20/20 hindsight going on if people are going to be outraged over it. He's basically been a poor man's Dupuis for his tenure in Vancouver and we all know how well liked he is around here.

Exactly

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I guess I just don't classify Megna as a random offensively challenged WBS callup.

Well Megna took us all by surprise, he sure as hell looked better in those 5 games than D'Agostini did all year

 

[MrBurghundy]

Well Megna took us all by surprise, he sure as hell looked better in those 5 games than D'Agostini did all year

I'll give Kobe a bit, but if he doesn't show much either, then I'm calling Megna up and giving him plenty of rope to hang himself in Kobe's spot.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Pretty damning indictment of D'Agostini that even with all of the forward injuries we were just hit with he's still being sent packing.

As for Raymond, I wouldn't have minded taking a flyer on him but there's some serious 20/20 hindsight going on if people are going to be outraged over it. He's basically been a poor man's Dupuis for his tenure in Vancouver and we all know how well liked he is around here.

A poor man's Dupuis that would have been playing for close to minimum wage and most likely on the third line.

Believe me, I'd like Dupuis a lot more if he wasn't being paid almost 4M dollars.

And adding a Raymond eliminates GARBAGE like D'Agostini and Kobasew filling up our roster.

 

[Malkin4Top6Wingerz]

A poor man's Dupuis that would have been playing for close to minimum wage and most likely on the third line.

Believe me, I'd like Dupuis a lot more if he wasn't being paid almost 4M dollars.

Did anybody really care about Raymond signing in Toronto when it happened? I didn't spend much time on HF over the summer but I have a hard time believing anybody cared at the time.

And adding a Raymond eliminates GARBAGE like D'Agostini and Kobasew filling up our roster.

I'd rather those guys just not be signed at all, to be honest. Shero's targeting of reclamation projects has been pretty spotty as of late.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

A poor man's Dupuis that would have been playing for close to minimum wage and most likely on the third line.

Believe me, I'd like Dupuis a lot more if he wasn't being paid almost 4M dollars.

And adding a Raymond eliminates GARBAGE like D'Agostini and Kobasew filling up our roster.

Kobe is perfectly functional as part of a Dupuis/Sutter or BB/Sutter 3rd line, he goes to the net, has decent speed and will go to the corners. We don't have a lot of guys even willing to go to the net. I'd rather see him on the fourth also, and Megna on that 3rd line. But oh well.

 

[Coastal Kev]

He just sucks. Kennedy had 21 goals one time also, believe it or not.

I would take Kennedy over every player in our current bottom 6, everyone!

 

[Freeptop]

It's not like people didn't see this coming when he was signed...

It's Shero's job to find the right players in free agency. So far Martin is the only FA that has really worked out in his 8 years here. Bad signings should be criticized.

Wait, what?

Now that's definitely a case of over-the-top criticism.

Apparently none of the following Free Agent signings by Shero worked out:
Jarkko Ruutu
Petr Sykora
Ty Conklin
Ruslan Fedotenko
Matt Cooke
Aaron Asham

Yeah, none of those guys worked out at all!

That's not even counting a variety of other free agents such as Mark Eaton or Zbynek Michalek who had ups and downs with the team, nor does it count any of the undrafted free agent signings (including current HFBoards favorite Jayson Megna).

Nope, in 8 years with the team, Paul Martin is the only free agent who has worked out.

See, this is the sort of hyperbole that undermines all your other arguments. It makes you look like someone who turns a blind eye to anything positive just so you can accentuate the negative, which, in turn, makes it seem like you're probably using hyperbole in all of your claims, not just some of them. Note: that applies to both sides of the argument, but the quoted statement took it to an extreme.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Raymond isn't a poor man's Dupuis...he has more goals and more points playing Crosby-less for Toronto this season. For their careers, Raymond has a 0.49 PPG to Dupuis' 0.47.

Nobody with talent is a poor man's Dupuis.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Wait, what?

Now that's definitely a case of over-the-top criticism.

Apparently none of the following Free Agent signings by Shero worked out:
Jarkko Ruutu
Petr Sykora
Ty Conklin
Ruslan Fedotenko
Matt Cooke
Aaron Asham

Yeah, none of those guys worked out at all!

That's not even counting a variety of other free agents such as Mark Eaton or Zbynek Michalek who had ups and downs with the team, nor does it count any of the undrafted free agent signings (including current HFBoards favorite Jayson Megna).

Nope, in 8 years with the team, Paul Martin is the only free agent who has worked out.

See, this is the sort of hyperbole that undermines all your other arguments. It makes you look like someone who turns a blind eye to anything positive just so you can accentuate the negative, which, in turn, makes it seem like you're probably using hyperbole in all of your claims, not just some of them. Note: that applies to both sides of the argument, but the quoted statement took it to an extreme.

Add Rupp and Vokoun to that mix.

 

[MeticulouslyDishevel]

Well there's a little bit of accountability with a veteran that some here have been calling for.

He's probably the most marginal veteran of them all.