Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XV (continued)

[HolyCrap]

Man, you just went off on your own little tangent there, that has zero to do with anything discussed. Up your game dude, that’s embarrassing.

It’s tough to follow along with all the crap being posted on here. I have so many posters on ignore. I figured you’re referring to Mitch making JT stats better and not the other way around or equal.

 

[diceman934]

You see, for you to be correct those two needed to underperform together when they were paired together later in the season, they didn't, in fact they were unbelievably good so your talking complete gibberish

Adapted into a winner? you know when he was being man handled by the Bergeron line and his PK was historically bad I didn't really see this adaption you talk about

I just watched a guy losing like the rest of his teammates

I don't know what the hell your talking about, Matthews was unbelievably good offensively (defensively it's a different story) and after Nylander's horror start he was good down the stretch and dominant when paired with Matthews later in the season to be inextricably separated from Matthews again because our coach likes to outsmart himself sometimes

Please post the stats that show that Mathews and Nylander were unbelievable good. They simply do not exist other then in your mind.

The poster is bang on Mathews played better defensively in his first year then he did in his last season. That is simply a fact.

Marner was not playing on the pk by himself you do know that right? He never got manhandled at all. One more question what is the name of your seeing eye dog?

 

[Kiwi]

Please post the stats that show that Mathews and Nylander were unbelievable good. They simply do not exist other then in your mind.

The poster is bang on Mathews played better defensively in his first year then he did in his last season. That is simply a fact.

Marner was not playing on the pk by himself you do know that right? He never got manhandled at all. One more question what is the name of your seeing eye dog?

You've been shown multiple times what Matthews expected goals numbers were with Nylander towards the end of the season, they were no1 in the league (albeit with a small sample), are you getting the dimensia? Anything else you've conveniently forgotten?

Matthews sucks defensively, I've never pretended anything else, what I do wonder is didn't you take me to task for writing that on here before? Telling me I was wrong, do you agree with me now?

He was on a historically bad playoff PK, Looked like a deer in the headlights while he was at it to, do you want me to play pretend that every player and coach involved in that abortion doesn't deserve to be given there fair share of blame?

I see just fine, not having my head so far up a certain players ass I'm kissing his tonsils doesn't hurt either with that Dice

 

[horner]

He did in his rookie year. Probably even better.

Not last season

 

[81Leafs50]

You mean other than having the highest shot contribution on the team?

Show me one real stat. JUST one. Matthews has goals.

GO.....

 

[Cotton]

It’s tough to follow along with all the crap being posted on here. I have so many posters on ignore. I figured you’re referring to Mitch making JT stats better and not the other way around or equal.

I'm in the same boat, I don't know what's being argued exactly but my sense is some are implying Tavares is a product of Marner, which imo is pure stupidity.


Tavares, with Matthews like linemates has cracked 30+ goals and 80+ pts multiple times. With the best wing he's ever played with he hit career highs, likewise, Marner reached his totals because of Tavares, plain and simple. Marner is the line driver but let's not forget JT is more than capable of being that guy, they've found a bit of chemistry together and helped each other, that's what the narrative should be.

A few people say Marner set JT up for tap ins all year - I guess to try and make one look better than the other, I count something like 4 or 5 of those and a hell of alot more nice shots. For anyone who's forgotten, I posted a video below of all of his goals.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Do you honestly believe that's the right move? I mean unless Marner comes in at 8.5-9m with some term, that there is dicey, do you see 10.5m x 5 Marner here?

Marner will get $10.516 M AAV easy for 5 years or more. Book it. Dubas already let the overpay horse our of the barn.

And no, this is not good, but it is what it is. Nylander will be gone.

 

[81Leafs50]

Lol, what are you watching.

THIS IS WHAT I AM WATCHING..........

 

[Notsince67]

Show me one real stat. JUST one. Matthews has goals.

GO.....

I would but it would require you to turn back one page and ACTUALLY READ IT

 

[DarkKnight]

The issue I have with Marner to Tavares is that sure it worked during regular pond season hockey games against teams that weren't paying attention, but take teams that take the time to draw up any type of strategy against their opponents all know all to well: Marner to Tavares. Tie up the goal-scorer, let the goalie handle Marner. You won't stop Tavares and Marner completely, but you can score more goals then they do with some talented players that can identify their strengths and weaknesses and play accordingly. It's why Nylander to Matthews fell flat. Matthews needed the experience to play the puck more to diversify his resume. Now if you can make Marner become a goal-scoring threat, then you have something what's being asked salary-wise.

That’s fair.

 

[Nineteen67]

The issue I have with Marner to Tavares is that sure it worked during regular pond season hockey games against teams that weren't paying attention, but take teams that take the time to draw up any type of strategy against their opponents all know all to well: Marner to Tavares. Tie up the goal-scorer, let the goalie handle Marner. You won't stop Tavares and Marner completely, but you can score more goals then they do with some talented players that can identify their strengths and weaknesses and play accordingly. It's why Nylander to Matthews fell flat. Matthews needed the experience to play the puck more to diversify his resume. Now if you can make Marner become a goal-scoring threat, then you have something what's being asked salary-wise.

It would be interesting to see wow they fared against the top 10 defensive teams. We all know the Leafs had an terrible record against those teams but how did those two perform? .

 

[DarkKnight]

It’s tough to follow along with all the crap being posted on here. I have so many posters on ignore. I figured you’re referring to Mitch making JT stats better and not the other way around or equal.

Got it.

 

[DarkKnight]

It would be interesting to see wow they fared against the top 10 defensive teams. We all know the Leafs had an terrible record against those teams but how did those two perform? .

Actually, they did just that on Leafs Lunch end of year, Mirtle I think. Marner’s production had NO drop off against the top 10 defensive teams. Matthews numbers dropped off considerably as a comparison. It was pretty impressive to hear that, you’d expect a drop off and yet the kid held it up against the tough teams.

 

[Nineteen67]

Actually, they did just that on Leafs Lunch end of year, Mirtle I think. Marner’s production had NO drop off against the top 10 defensive teams. Matthews numbers dropped off considerably as a comparison. It was pretty impressive to hear that, you’d expect a drop off and yet the kid held it up against the tough teams.

That’s right, they did. Matthews was a 1/2 a point per game difference and played against the 2nd best lines. I think it demonstrated how bad his line mates were.

 

[IPS]

THIS IS WHAT I AM WATCHING..........

Your eye test isn't as good as his!!!

 

[Notsince67]

THIS IS WHAT I AM WATCHING..........

So rough smell about your with or without stats
Marner without Tavares was 4.8% of the total season team minute or a bit short of 4 games. That is about a 4 point difference and a lot of those minutes away were with Matthews
Tavares without Marner was 3,9% of the total season team minutes or about 3.3 games. That is about a 2 point difference.

Are you fing kidding me?
This is a perfect example of how somebody lies with the use of stats
Keep your day job. Tavares and Marner were amongst the most paired duo in the NHL. You really don't need to resort to misleading stats to lie about your position.

Edit...if you were to take a stab at it, a higher event metric like corsi for and against might be a tiny more persuasive because it is a higher frequency event but only by a microunit.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I'm in the same boat, I don't know what's being argued exactly but my sense is some are implying Tavares is a product of Marner, which imo is pure stupidity.


Tavares, with Matthews like linemates has cracked 30+ goals and 80+ pts multiple times. With the best wing he's ever played with he hit career highs, likewise, Marner reached his totals because of Tavares, plain and simple. Marner is the line driver but let's not forget JT is more than capable of being that guy, they've found a bit of chemistry together and helped each other, that's what the narrative should be.

A few people say Marner set JT up for tap ins all year - I guess to try and make one look better than the other, I count something like 4 or 5 of those and a hell of alot more nice shots. For anyone who's forgotten, I posted a video below of all of his goals.

Yeah, it's not even debatable. I put my first ever poster on ignore yesterday and I suspect he's involved in whatever debate the guy you quoted is having trouble with. Tavares might have gotten a small bump from Marner but his season wasn't tangibly different than his normal career averages. Marner took off though, just like everyone said would happen. All the bias, arrogance and linear regression in the world isn't going to change this.

 

[81Leafs50]

I would but it would require you to turn back one page and ACTUALLY READ IT

i'm still waiting. ....

 

[81Leafs50]

So rough smell about your with or without stats
Marner without Tavares was 4.8% of the total season team minute or a bit short of 4 games. That is about a 4 point difference and a lot of those minutes away were with Matthews
Tavares without Marner was 3,9% of the total season team minutes or about 3.3 games. That is about a 2 point difference.

Are you fing kidding me?
This is a perfect example of how somebody lies with the use of stats
Keep your day job. Tavares and Marner were amongst the most paired duo in the NHL. You really don't need to resort to misleading stats to lie about your position.

Edit...if you were to take a stab at it, a higher event metric like corsi for and against might be a tiny more persuasive because it is a higher frequency event but only by a microunit.

yup. Real stats are a lie.

Marner 12th in assists and 22 in pts since being drafted.

MEANWHILE, the stats show that Matthews was a point a game player through his rookie and sophomore seasons.

Matthews 5th in goals since being drafted.

Its crazy how the stats lie like that.

2016-2017
Matthews 40 goals 69 pts
Marner 19 goals 61 pts

2017-2018
Matthews 34 goals 63 pts
Marner 22 goals 69 pts

Matthews had more pts and goals than Marner after 2 seasons in the NHL.

WTF is anyone talking about when they say Matthews wasnt or is not as good as Marner when Matthews scored 33 more goals and 2 more pts??????

Marner has no leg to stand on. Tavares is clearly boosting him.

But that is all fine and good. Get your money. 9-9.75 is still top 10 money. Just dont think you are Matthews. Thats a joke.

 

[Mr Hockey]

i'm still waiting. ....

He posted a couple of attachments, a few posts back, he is telling you to go have a look

 

[Notsince67]

yup. Real stats are a lie.

Marner 12th in assists and 22 in pts since being drafted.

MEANWHILE, the stats show that Matthews was a point a game player through his rookie and sophomore seasons.

Matthews 5th in goals since being drafted.

Its crazy how the stats lie like that.

2016-2017
Matthews 40 goals 69 pts
Marner 19 goals 61 pts

2017-2018
Matthews 34 goals 63 pts
Marner 22 goals 69 pts

Matthews had more pts and goals than Marner after 2 seasons in the NHL.

WTF is anyone talking about when they say Matthews wasnt or is not as good as Marner when Matthews scored 33 more goals and 2 more pts??????

Marner has no leg to stand on. Tavares is clearly boosting him.

But that is all fine and good. Get your money. 9-9.75 is still top 10 money. Just dont think you are Matthews. Thats a joke.

So you try to throw out more stats because you failed so much last time.
I get it.
Really sad

 

[81Leafs50]

So rough smell about your with or without stats
Marner without Tavares was 4.8% of the total season team minute or a bit short of 4 games. That is about a 4 point difference and a lot of those minutes away were with Matthews
Tavares without Marner was 3,9% of the total season team minutes or about 3.3 games. That is about a 2 point difference.

Are you fing kidding me?
This is a perfect example of how somebody lies with the use of stats
Keep your day job. Tavares and Marner were amongst the most paired duo in the NHL. You really don't need to resort to misleading stats to lie about your position.

Edit...if you were to take a stab at it, a higher event metric like corsi for and against might be a tiny more persuasive because it is a higher frequency event but only by a microunit.

2018-2019
Matthews Pts/60 - 3.471
Marner Pts/60 - 3.470

Matthew Goals/60 - 1.759 (top 5 for players with 60 games or more, 6th overall)
Marner Goals/60 - 0.960 (158th)

Matthews ES PTS/60 - 2.931
Marner ES PTS/60 - 3.208

Matthews PP PTS/60 - 6.871
Marner PP PTS/60 - 5.935

All stats from https://www.quanthockey.com

 

[81Leafs50]

So you try to throw out more stats because you failed so much last time.
I get it.
Really sad

i'm literally posting the same stats over and over again. Its clear you never looked the first time and you are looking now. Simple goals and pts stats are TOO MUCH stats for some people.

LMAO

moving on.....who's next?

 

[MattySnipes]

i'm literally posting the same stats over and over again. Its clear you never looked the first time and you are looking now. Simple goals and pts stats are TOO MUCH stats for some people.

LMAO

moving on.....who's next?

 

[horner]

yup. Real stats are a lie.

Marner 12th in assists and 22 in pts since being drafted.

MEANWHILE, the stats show that Matthews was a point a game player through his rookie and sophomore seasons.

Matthews 5th in goals since being drafted.

Its crazy how the stats lie like that.

2016-2017
Matthews 40 goals 69 pts
Marner 19 goals 61 pts

2017-2018
Matthews 34 goals 63 pts
Marner 22 goals 69 pts

Matthews had more pts and goals than Marner after 2 seasons in the NHL.

WTF is anyone talking about when they say Matthews wasnt or is not as good as Marner when Matthews scored 33 more goals and 2 more pts??????

Marner has no leg to stand on. Tavares is clearly boosting him.

But that is all fine and good. Get your money. 9-9.75 is still top 10 money. Just dont think you are Matthews. Thats a joke.

Yes we get it Marners sucks, trade the little f***.
He will never find a Tavares to boost his points.
Crap players you suck get rid of him .Probably couldn't trade him for a 7 th Rd pick .
We get it he sucks.