Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XV (continued)

[Sypher04]

Why is that though? The rumor that Nylander cost 10 million against the cap last year has long been debunked.

But I've heard the leafs won't be able to sign him late due to ltir reasons, or something. I don't really get it though. Can someone explain?

The Leafs need to get as close to the cap as possible before they put Horton on LTIR. If they did so now with 3.8 million of space they only would receive 1.5 million in relief. If they opt to delay putting him on LTIR then his actual cap hit at 5.3 begins to accrue.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Looks like Marner wants his cake - and to eat it too.

 

[BlueForever75]

If I am the Leafs I am working on the best possible return for Marner behind the scenes. This what I would do:

1. Work out a deal with a team like Vancouver or Carolina or Columbus or Ottawa or Buffalo. Get a package for today and tomorrow. Should be huge.

2. Acquiring team needs to tell Leafs maximum that they are willing to pay yearly for Marner contract. If they say 12 million, great.

3. Tell Marner camp that if he doesn't accept contract on their terms he is going to team X and they are willing to pay you 11 million a season.

What this does is force Marner camp to accept offer from Leafs to stay in Toronto on their terms, OR Marner camp searches out a offer sheet for 11 million or slightly more so they control where he goes. BUT theres a catch, Toronto matches the offer to keep Marner as their asset and in turn still flips him to bottom feeding team in a far less lucrative market to go ROT. And the added bonus, he can take his dumbass father along with him.

Win-Win for the Leafs. They don't get worse, and in the end show others that players like Marner do not hold the cards they control everything!!!

This is what Dubas should do to move this along.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I'd like to hear your rationale about this. Why do you think it is most reasonable to look at a body of work in their ELCs? Wouldn't you think a young player should be much improved in their 3rd ELC year than their first? Are their not red flags if improvement is not seen? Shouldn't age be a large factor too?

I really don't see the logic in averaging the 3 ELC years, or weighing the 1st ELC year similarily to the 3rd ELC year.

Because signing someone to a long term contract based on 1 year of performance is a recipe for disaster. Age absolutely plays into it. Try not to apply too much of the previous context of conversation to me. I was just agreeing that it's important to use the whole body of work. How much a player improved over those 3 years and how good the player is relative to 1st v.s. 3rd year of ELC will typically feed into term and subsequently risk on both sides.

 

[Notsince67]

Our middle 6 was very much a 2a 2b situation. I really don't know that you can really assess that we even had a defined 3rd line.
My point would be that even of that 54.8% you've calculated, not much of that can reasonably be attributed to the 4th line. Even if you assume that 75% of that w/out Matthews, Kadri, Bozak time is actually 4th line it works out to what... 10 games? I don't think there's any way Marner's stint on that 4th was quite that long, so I'm not sure what to make of those numbers.

I was pretty conservative. I assumed Bozak was a 3rd line and any shift without Bozak Matthews or Kadri was 4th. There were times when Bozak was on the ice with Kadri or Matthews and I counted it as 1st or second. This is all a matter of semantics. The shift of production happened when Marner moved to play with Kadri and Marleau for the most part. Without putting names to lines, I don't really know how you can conclude that I am wrong. Would the best course of action on your part not be to say outright that you disagree that Bozak was the #3 center and then we can compare something like QoC to settle the matter? We are going in circles on this argument

 

[stickty111]

At this point, it's clear Marner and his people are the problem in the negotiations.
Dubas needs to give them a deadline. Sign in the next two weeks or your gone.

 

[Mess]

Bob McKenzie saying the Leafs at this point want Mitch Marner to sign an offer sheet.

I agree with BM ..

With Marner wanting +$10.5 mil X 5 years and Leafs only willing to offer that amount on 8 years it makes the gap significant.

An Offersheet would resolve this and give the Leafs closure, otherwise without one, how will that gap be bridged and not lead to a long holdout without one side caving?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

At this point, it's clear Marner and his people are the problem in the negotiations.
Dubas needs to give them a deadline. Sign in the next two weeks or your gone.

At this point? I would say they've been the problem the whole time. But then again, it's not like other RFA negotiations are going better

 

[Notsince67]

[QUOTE="mavis, post: 163255381, member: 128921"]Because signing someone to a long term contract based on 1 year of performance is a recipe for disaster. Age absolutely plays into it. Try not to apply too much of the previous context of conversation to me. I was just agreeing that it's important to use the whole body of work. How much a player improved over those 3 years and how good the player is relative to 1st v.s. 3rd year of ELC will typically feed into term and subsequently risk on both sides.[/QUOTE]
Except his elite performance is about a year and a half now or half of his ELC

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If I am the Leafs I am working on the best possible return for Marner behind the scenes. This what I would do:

1. Work out a deal with a team like Vancouver or Carolina or Columbus or Ottawa or Buffalo. Get a package for today and tomorrow. Should be huge.

2. Acquiring team needs to tell Leafs maximum that they are willing to pay yearly for Marner contract. If they say 12 million, great.

3. Tell Marner camp that if he doesn't accept contract on their terms he is going to team X and they are willing to pay you 11 million a season.

What this does is force Marner camp to accept offer from Leafs to stay in Toronto on their terms, OR Marner camp searches out a offer sheet for 11 million or slightly more so they control where he goes. BUT theres a catch, Toronto matches the offer to keep Marner as their asset and in turn still flips him to bottom feeding team in a far less lucrative market to go ROT. And the added bonus, he can take his dumbass father along with him.

Win-Win for the Leafs. They don't get worse, and in the end show others that players like Marner do not hold the cards they control everything!!!

This is what Dubas should do to move this along.

I'm willing to bet that there isn't a single team in the league willing pay Marner the aav/term he's asking for.

 

[ToneDog]

If I am the Leafs I am working on the best possible return for Marner behind the scenes. This what I would do:

1. Work out a deal with a team like Vancouver or Carolina or Columbus or Ottawa or Buffalo. Get a package for today and tomorrow. Should be huge.

2. Acquiring team needs to tell Leafs maximum that they are willing to pay yearly for Marner contract. If they say 12 million, great.

3. Tell Marner camp that if he doesn't accept contract on their terms he is going to team X and they are willing to pay you 11 million a season.

What this does is force Marner camp to accept offer from Leafs to stay in Toronto on their terms, OR Marner camp searches out a offer sheet for 11 million or slightly more so they control where he goes. BUT theres a catch, Toronto matches the offer to keep Marner as their asset and in turn still flips him to bottom feeding team in a far less lucrative market to go ROT. And the added bonus, he can take his dumbass father along with him.

Win-Win for the Leafs. They don't get worse, and in the end show others that players like Marner do not hold the cards they control everything!!!

This is what Dubas should do to move this along.

I think you tell Marner to go find a team you are willing to go to and sign an OS. We will then deal with it. He may not want to go to a team Dubas finds a deal for.

 

[Notsince67]

At this point? I would say they've been the problem the whole time. But then again, it's not like other RFA negotiations are going better

[QUOTE="mavis, post: 163255381, member: 128921"]Because signing someone to a long term contract based on 1 year of performance is a recipe for disaster. Age absolutely plays into it. Try not to apply too much of the previous context of conversation to me. I was just agreeing that it's important to use the whole body of work. How much a player improved over those 3 years and how good the player is relative to 1st v.s. 3rd year of ELC will typically feed into term and subsequently risk on both sides.

Except his elite performance is about a year and a half now or half of his ELC

 

[Mess]

Closed for the season.

New thread is up..