Salary Cap: Marner Contract - $116,000,000 CANADIAN DOLLARS is the offer

[kb]

Well... once Marner starts missing games, the 7 or 8 x 11M goes out the window. But the other choice which is the 3 x 9M or so that he really wants will still be there. That's a lot of leverage.

It won't last long, a couple weeks in and that's no longer an option too.

 

[Menzinger]

October 1st is before the 1st game (which is the 2nd). So, no, that doesn't dramatically alter anything.

It basically gives them literal hours to finalize the deal. I'd say that's a pretty big difference. This ultimately is a completely different situation than we saw last season.

It also presumes the Leafs don't opt to hedge bets and lay groundwork for a trade

Edit: typo

 

[Buds17]

Thanks. Ya I agree. 7 by 11 if true the only 2 higher are AM and McDavid.. hed be getting more than Crosby. Like how the hell does that make bloody sense. Typing this is angering me more now.

Dubas to Ferris you realise that offer makes him the 3rd highest paid in the league right?? Like Marner and more so his dad said he was being under valued his whole hockey life 3rd highest paid in the NHL ..come on

It'd be great if he took the 11 x 7. Crosby's contract makes for a tough comparable though in the sense that the term length no longer exists. He does still have the highest total money contract.

 

[PromisedLand]

If Marner signs an OS, a trade is no longer an option. The Leafs either have to match, or take the compensation. If they match, he can't be traded for one year I believe.

if thats the rules; and Marner camp is not willing to be reasonable I would seriously explore trading options right now.

Matthews 5 years and Tavares' prime have to be maximized. No more holdout BS

 

[93LEAFS]

He's going to need to be careful he doesn't put the team into a position where they have no other option but to jam something down his throat



The bus got emotional and cut it's own breaks



There's some risk if the Leafs don't fold for him though, once his cap hit starts pro-rating it handcuffs what the team can pay him

That's if he's willing to take this into the season of course although he's going to need a set of stone's to pull that with 11M×7-8 on the table

Again, it doesn't start prorating until the season officially starts. October 1st is the first day it starts calculating (the day the 23 man roster is due). Which why it is around the time they will have the most possible leverage. I'm sure they are well aware of every possible angle, and when the Leafs can't offer past a certain amount. Ferris isn't an uninformed person. So, unless pride gets in the way, they know the date that the best possible offer can be rescinded.

 

[kb]

Marner will likely live up the deal he gets. If you think Matthews will live up to his. Which, you constantly defend as a reasonable deal. That deal opened the pandora's box, which people just brush aside. Probably because its already signed so they don't want to bash Dubas's management of every RFA that isn't Kapanen or Johnsson.

That has no bearing on my post. At all.

I said there is nothing to leverage. And that's the plain fact. There is max of $10.5 or so that can be fit under the cap if Toronto runs a 20 man roster. Marner is the inferior player.

Nothing to leverage. He's only going down from there.

 

[Menzinger]

The offwrsheet is a non threat still.

Multiple media reports have said Ferris aggressively attempted to get short term big money offer sheets from other teams this sum.er and none took the bait.

And if he was to sign a long term deal hed take what the Leafs were offering with that 7x11 deal.

 

[93LEAFS]

It basically gives them literal hours to finalize thebdeal e. I'd say that's a pretty big difference. This ultimately is a completely different situation than we saw last season.

It also presumes the Leafs don't opt to hedge bets and lay groundwork for a trade

Edit: typo

Good luck laying groundwork for a trade if an unsigned RFA isn't playing ball, it will kill the return unless there is a contract in place. Its how Trouba forced his way to NYR and how Kessel got to Toronto over Nashville. No GM is going to trade for Marner without having a deal in place, so that can't really be sprung on them. And, if it was, the likely return we get will be damaged.

 

[93LEAFS]

That has no bearing on my post. At all.

I said there is nothing to leverage. And that's the plain fact. There is max of $10.5 or so that can be fit under the cap if Toronto runs a 20 man roster. Marner is the inferior player.

Nothing to leverage. He's only going down from there.

Do you forget what you say?

There is nothing to leverage. Nothing. Unless you think the Leafs will start trading away important pieces to fit in a player asking for a contract he's never going to be worth.

The comment about being worth a contract was in direct response to that, so, it was absolutely on topic.

 

[Menzinger]

Good luck laying groundwork for a trade if an unsigned RFA isn't playing ball, it will kill the return unless there is a contract in place. Its how Trouba forced his way to NYR and how Kessel got to Toronto over Nashville. No GM is going to trade for Marner without having a deal in place, so that can't really be sprung on them. And, if it was, the likely return we get will be damaged.

If its laid clear to Maner the Leafs won't give a short term deal at his desired aav ot would fit his mo to chase the dollars elsewhere if another team is willing to give him a contract closer to his ask.

Imo faulty presumption to think marner isnt open to a sign and trade. Especially given he tried to get an offersheet this summer.....

 

[kb]

Do you forget what you say?


The comment about being worth a contract was in direct response to that, so, it was absolutely on topic.

It didn't address that in any way. Are they going to start dealing players away to fit in Mitch? There is no leverage. They won't do that.

 

[93LEAFS]

If its laid clear to Maner the Leafs won't give a short term deal at his desired aav ot would fit his mo to chase the dollars elsewhere if another team is willing to give him a contract closer to his ask.

Imo faulty presumption to think marner isnt open to a sign and trade. Especially given he tried to get an offersheet this summer.....

Except your argument was that the Leafs would lay the ground work for a trade in response. That needs Marner to co-operate to workout.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

That's a big risk. He could be had cheaply in late November if he feels disrespected, and decides he then wants to play. The Leafs can't even match an offer sheet for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Disagree, no team will have space. Just as cap inflates for us, it inflates for them.

 

[kb]

Disagree, no team will have space. Just as cap inflates for us, it inflates for them.

No, they are into LTIR because they have zero cap space. That only disappears daily.

 

[Menzinger]

Except your argument was that the Leafs would lay the ground work for a trade in response. That needs Marner to co-operate to workout.

For.the final decision it needs his approval, but the groundwork can be laid between the teams first. It's no different for a team asking a player to waive his ntc.

 

[PromisedLand]

So basically guys and gals, after today, any "new rumors," are just that. Since Dubas said radio silence after he took questions. The next thing we will hear is when the deal is basically done..unless Ferris runs his mouth again.

quite frankly i dont want a scenario where marner signs OS in Nov which the Leafs cannot match because of the inflated cap hit and end up taking the picks which may not be as high in the draft

seriously IMO Marner has one week to sign the deal or Dubas should seriously start looking for trading options; we have to maximize matthews 5 years and JT's prime.

Rielly on a good AAV for next few years and Freddie under contract for couple more years (not easy to find good goalies).

Enough is enough already

 

[Menzinger]

Disagree, no team will have space. Just as cap inflates for us, it inflates for them.

Not quite. The LTIR is an added complication for the Leafs that won't be an issue for other teams.

And in a trade the Leafs can also accept salary from the other team in part of the return

 

[93LEAFS]

It didn't address that in any way. Are they going to start dealing players away to fit in Mitch? There is no leverage. They won't do that.

Marner will likely live up to his deal, just like Matthews will. It will just not give us a great return value-wise like a lot of other players coming off an ELC. You stated he will never live up to his demands. I don't think that's true, unless you don't think Panarin or Matthews are capable of living up to their deals. As soon as you made a 21-year old coming off an ELC the 2nd highest player in the league (now 4th), you were going to see a massive trickle-down effect throughout the league, but especially with your own team. We flat out caved on that, yet many here will constantly defend that as reasonable due to contracts signed under a different CBA when everyother play made a top 30 paid player in the league coming off an ELC has been signed for 8 years since 2012/13. It addressed that point.

It isn't Marner's concern how they fix it. But, its unlikely the Leafs will go back on their best offer at the 25th hour, which is why you wait to see if they budge if they don't match your demand. If you don't think Ferris and Marner's management team aren't well aware of when the Leafs have to decrease offers to meet the cap, you aren't giving them enough credit. Maybe, he'll have too much pride to settle for less than he's worth. But, likely, they are waiting it out until they believe the best offer will come, like Nylander did on December 1st.

 

[PromisedLand]

My unpopular opinion - I don't mind locking Marner up at an overpay because I think his long term value will justify the contract.

At the cost of which roster player though?

Kappy? Mango? Willy? Kerfoot?

or deplete the already struggling Leafs D?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I suppose you have the experience bargaining million dollar contracts?

I mean it's not like he signed one of the best UFAs and convinced him to take 1-2 million less.

No I don't. But I do have managerial experience. Giving in to an employee who isn't indispensable (Nylander in this case) creates a terrible work environment.

Dubas was a risky hire. His lack of seasoning should be readily apparent.

 

[93LEAFS]

For.the final decision it needs his approval, but the groundwork can be laid between the teams first. It's no different for a team asking a player to waive his ntc.

You really think a GM is going to go in offering significant assets for what Marner is currently demanding. The whole league is in a holding pattern with RFA's. I also can't see many teams offering Marner the bonus structure he likely wants. This will just play out and it will likely lead to Mitch re-signed at somepoint. Way too many teams have uncertainty for this to be a good market to trade Marner, and in general, you will lose trading a player like Marner. I mean Boston, Calgary, Tampa, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Philly and Colorado all have RFA issues at the moment. This isn't exclusive to us.

 

[93LEAFS]

I suppose you have the experience bargaining million dollar contracts?

I mean it's not like he signed one of the best UFAs and convinced him to take 1-2 million less.

Tavares was set on coming here. Credit to Dubas for finishing the deal, but its been reported since that Brisson had to call them back and basically told them they could get him if they actually became serious and backed off either the 1 year deal or moved off of 9m.

 

[kb]

No I don't. But I do have managerial experience. Giving in to an employee who isn't indispensable (Nylander in this case) creates a terrible work environment.

Dubas was a risky hire. His lack of seasoning should be readily apparent.

He didn't give anything to Nylander. Nylander called him with 30-40 minutes left to get a deal done. He caved. Dubas didn't.

 

[93LEAFS]

He didn't give anything to Nylander. Nylander called him with 30-40 minutes left to get a deal done. He caved. Dubas didn't.

The Leafs started at 6x6. They absolutely moved off their position. Someone calling someone doesn't mean they were the side that caved. They gave him a better deal than all of his reasonable comparables (Larkin, Pastrnak and Ehlers) while also buying one less UFA year.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

He didn't give anything to Nylander. Nylander called him with 30-40 minutes left to get a deal done. He caved. Dubas didn't.

Paying a non top tier RFA like Nylander $7 million with the majority in signing bonuses is a cave in. Sorry.