Speculation: Marner’s Deal

[Mess]

Why?

Internal pay scale.

His teammates earnings tied to his production and his importance to the team.

Why should how much Carolina is willing to pay AHO determine Marner's value to the Leafs?. Carolina could give AHO the Draisaitl deal of 8 x $8.5 and it would make Seabass the highest paid Cane player.

In Toronto where Matthews makes $11.6 and JT $11 mil that would seem like pocket change for Marner in comparison, by leading the team in scoring and them making > $3 mil less a season than Auston.

 

[Notsince67]

Wouldn’t Point, Aho, and Rantanen also hold all the aces? Is Marner going to make more than them?

yes

 

[Nineteen67]

Oh, ok. I actually agree with you then.

Due to the horrible precedent set in previous contracts, Dubas is going to have to overpay Marner.

Couldn’t agree more.

I still don’t understand why most people on the leaf board are making excuses for these overpayments, as opposed to expressing their frustrations at them.

I’m not frustrated. It doesn’t matter to me what they get, although I want them get whatever they can.

However, Nylander’s agent set the tone when he said he was using comparables on the current Leafs roster and not throughout the League. He was probably pleasantly surprised when he convinced Dubas to do the same.

 

[4thline]

So Rantanen and Aho will also make, at the very least, 9.5x5?

They should. If they really want to it will be hard to keep them from getting it. They might not be "I'm going to get every penny types"

I don't think you understand that leverage and desire to use vary from situation to situation, from person to person

 

[BallardEra]

yes

I agree that he will make more than those three as well.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I’m not frustrated. It doesn’t matter to me what they get, although I want them get whatever they can.

However, Nylander’s agent set the tone when he said he was using comparables on the current Leafs roster and not throughout the League. He was probably pleasantly surprised when he convinced Dubas to do the same.

It should absolutely matter to you "what they get", because there's a salary cap. This will make as less competitive as soon as next year.

 

[Trapper]

Internal pay scale.

His teammates earnings tied to his production and his importance to the team.

Why should how much Carolina is willing to pay AHO determine Marner's value to the Leafs?. Carolina could give AHO the Draisaitl deal of 8 x $8.5 and it would make Seabass the highest paid Cane player.

In Toronto where Matthews makes $11.6 and JT $11 mil that would seem like pocket change for Marner in comparison, by leading the team in scoring and them making > $3 mil less a season than Auston.

At the end of the day moving into multiple double digit salaries, Nylander may be the one to stay as the most flexibility to surround based on contract.

 

[Nineteen67]

It should absolutely matter to you "what they get", because there's a salary cap. This will make as less competitive as soon as next year.

I’m quite confident they’ll have a team....

 

[Mess]

At the end of the day moving into multiple double digit salaries, Nylander may be the one to stay as the most flexibility to surround based on contract.

After Marner it might come down to Nylander @ $7 mil or Kappy and Johnsson resigned at $7 mil.

Pretty soon we might see AM + JT+ MM and a bunch of Marlies or similar contracts filling out most of the forwards with $2.5 mil type players as the higher end of the depth.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If Marner pushed for 12M like Point is doing in Tampa then we are in big trouble. But Tampa is in deep waters too on the CAP. I am curious if Tampa waits for an offer sheet and then matches or upps their offer? My understanding is they have told his camp we can only pay you Kuch money that's it. Maybe Toronto will hold serve too. I think both these cases will be very interesting to see unfold. I hope we get Marner done quickly after season ends. I don't want to see things go to July 1st. But if I was betting I would bet 1 of these 2 will go to July 1st.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Internal pay scale.

His teammates earnings tied to his production and his importance to the team.

Why should how much Carolina is willing to pay AHO determine Marner's value to the Leafs?. Carolina could give AHO the Draisaitl deal of 8 x $8.5 and it would make Seabass the highest paid Cane player.

In Toronto where Matthews makes $11.6 and JT $11 mil that would seem like pocket change for Marner in comparison, by leading the team in scoring and them making > $3 mil less a season than Auston.

I do agree that internal pay scales play a part in contract negotiations. But so do league wide comparables. All of these teams and players are under the same cba, so it’s silly to suggest that other teams contracts have no bearing on negotiations.


But I definitely agree that internal pay scales play a part. That’s why I’ve been so critical of Dubas’ contracts. The overpayments of Nylander and Matthews will affect Marners contracts.
When (not if) Marner makes substantially more than players like Rantanen and Aho, it will show how out of whack Dubas internal pay scale is. It will show that, due to Dubas’ previous overpaid contracts, we’ll have to also overpay Marner compared to league wide comparables. Then Kapanen. Then Johnsson. And on and on we’ll go.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I don't think you understand that leverage and desire to use vary from situation to situation, from person to person

I’m starting to get it. Leaf players demand and fight for more than all of the other teams players for some reason.

Either that or our gm sucks.

We’ll never know, as we aren’t sitting at the negotiation table.

Either way, it sucks for us leaf fans. Either our star players are far more greedy than all of the other star players, or our gm sucks compared to all the other gm’s. Neither option is good for leaf nation.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Dubie has taken a softer more team friendly approach to negotiations. But lets not forget he is a rookie GM swimming in deep waters. I think it was expected. And it tends to have a domino effect. So we are going to have a team with stars getting paid lots and then lots of ELC contracts and cheap FAs. The middle guys are getting squeezed. I can't see it going any other way now.

 

[4thline]

The middle guys are getting squeezed. I can't see it going any other way now.

I think it will be interesting to see this moving forward league wide. The 2010-2013 backdiving contracts did a number on the league wide payscale by depressing perception of star player value- while they still got the money. We've been seeing a gradual rebound from that but McDavid playing nice and the contracts to tax free states are muddying the waters

 

[IPS]

I think Marner's camp is ready to play hardball.

I can see them saying they won't take anything less than 11M/per.

They better be willing to sit Marner out then.

I'm prepared for a shit-show.

 

[Notsince67]

At the end of the day moving into multiple double digit salaries, Nylander may be the one to stay as the most flexibility to surround based on contract.

@10MM, marner would be paid 100k per point at 100 pts.
@7MM, Nylander is struggling to get to a 55 point pace, yielding 127K per point
This doesn't factor better defensive acumen and PK duties.
I'd rather have 1 100 pt player @ 10MM than a 55pt player and a 45 pt player (the difference).Good luck finding a 45 pt player for the 3MM differential

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Yes a mistake that Chicago is regretting right now, and basically gave the rest of the NHL a blueprint on what not to do.

Your right they are regretting it because they paid the center too much money not the winger.

Every line marner plays on the puck goes through him. Just because he is not listed as a center doesn’t mean he doesn’t drive his line.

Does our power play run through nylander or Matthews.
Do Matthews or nylander kill penalties.

Last year in the playoffs when nylander and Matthews disappeared
Marner tried to take the team in his back. Boston coach Cassidy said we keep knocking this little guy on his ass and he keeps getting up and attacks the puck like a hound dog.

Who has the most total points on our team the last three years

Bozak and jvr had career years playing with marner his first year.

Last year kadri and Marleau hadn’t scored in 20 games and marner joined the line and both players went on a scoring tear.

John Tavares is having a career year in goals playing with marner

If nylander and Matthews ever develope the drive that marner has then we will win a cup.

If anyone thinks Mitch will sign for under 10 they should go watch golf.

 

[Mess]

I do agree that internal pay scales play a part in contract negotiations. But so do league wide comparables. All of these teams and players are under the same cba, so it’s silly to suggest that other teams contracts have no bearing on negotiations.


But I definitely agree that internal pay scales play a part. That’s why I’ve been so critical of Dubas’ contracts. The overpayments of Nylander and Matthews will affect Marners contracts.
When (not if) Marner makes substantially more than players like Rantanen and Aho, it will show how out of whack Dubas internal pay scale is. It will show that, due to Dubas’ previous overpaid contracts, we’ll have to also overpay Marner compared to league wide comparables. Then Kapanen. Then Johnsson. And on and on we’ll go.

Other teams signings can increase the overall comparisons driving all future contracts up. That is why other teams get angry when some GMs inflate the market as it will eventually impact them.

For example McDavid and Eichel last contracts moved the needle up and exstablished new market pricess for Matthews as a future RFA signing.

However its still going to be internal pay scales the impact teams the most, where the richer teams that are willing to pay their stars more (even in a cap world) will continue once precedence is set need to maintain that..

Just like AM getting 5 years and giving up 1 UFA year for top $$$, you can bet the farm that Marner will now also give away less UFA years and want top $$ for as few UFA given away, because it happened for Auston. Getting 8 years like was offered by Marner's camp in the summer, is likely off the table unless Leafs are willing to massively overpay because of past signing trends (mistakes).

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

Let's just hope Dubie can negotiate properly.. If it's true he asked for 9x8 just last spring.. he should show the guy two offers,

10.16x8 to show the respect, and a 9.16x8. or whatever term they'd see fit I'd just like 8 and a C on this kid.

If he wants to choose the 10.16 he'd have to hard ball him and tell him he'll need to look for trade options. The guys a lifer... I'd hope he would want to stay.

These contracts are rough without knowing the cap is actually going up each year.. The canadian dollar blows.

 

[PromisedLand]

Marchand is also in the head of Marner's parents as this is what Bonnie Maner him mom posted in response to Marchand's tweet.



The NHL's official Twitter account replied with an animated gif of Marner's mother, Bonnie, giving a double thumbs up.

so Marchand is a RAT on and off the ice. Scared of Marner playing for divisional rival for years to come and own his ass as mitch hits prime?

this is the second time a divisional rival has opened his mouth (kucherov did similar thing)

f*** boston
f*** marchand

P.S. Marner is the most important forward for the Leafs; yes even more important than Matthews

 

[PromisedLand]

Dubas made the mistake of signing nylander first

dubas was, is and will forever be a f***ING MORON for not getting matthews and marner signed last season.

 

[Trapper]

@10MM, marner would be paid 100k per point at 100 pts.
@7MM, Nylander is struggling to get to a 55 point pace, yielding 127K per point
This doesn't factor better defensive acumen and PK duties.
I'd rather have 1 100 pt player @ 10MM than a 55pt player and a 45 pt player (the difference).Good luck finding a 45 pt player for the 3MM differential

I don’t know what the deal is this year, I’m not a fan or non fan of Nylander, but I think he’s better than the 55 point pace as we move forward.

Over the course of the next 5 years of the contract I’d expect the pace to look different.

I can’t just say that’s what he is today/tomorrow/forever. At 80 points he exceeds his contract.
Going to be very hard to exceed 11 + million of others.

 

[Notsince67]

I don’t know what the deal is this year, I’m not a fan or non fan of Nylander, but I think he’s better than the 55 point pace as we move forward.

Over the course of the next 5 years of the contract I’d expect the pace to look different.

I can’t just say that’s what he is today/tomorrow/forever. At 80 points he exceeds his contract.
Going to be very hard to exceed 11 + million of others.

I'm not sure what Willy is about either. He may have tremendous potential. The problem is that the window is much shorter now. I honestly don't think that Nylander will be considered a viable long term option unless he performs well in the playoffs. It is unlikely that the team waits for him to look better than just a good player.

 

[PromisedLand]

NHL twitter really should have stayed away from that tweet. How is Marchand in the head of Marner's parents because the NHL twitter posted a picture of his mom? I'm not following what you are saying here...

This right here is a PROOF that there are seperate rules that screw the Leafs and other set of rules for the rest of the league

F the NHL
F Bettman
F everything

 

[Guided by Veseys]

dubas was, is and will forever be a ****ING MORON for not getting matthews and marner signed last season.

Wasn’t Lou GM last season? Also i think it was reported that he tried to sign all three in the summer but Nylander holding out slowed the process and both Marner and Matthews balked.