Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects- Early Off Season time

[Fogelhund]

Bracco has probably achieved more than the average 61st pick. I'm not saying he can do no wrong, but you seem to shift all organization mistakes to people from the previous regime. Korshkov isn't looking great and Rasanen looks like a really bad pick. I mean, Dubas has had 2 years to shop Bracco if he's such a terrible person and has held on to him, despite this incident having happened post draft.

I'm not picking on you... just quoting because of the Bracco discussion.

Given this incident is just coming out now, it's improbable that Hunter, Dubas, or anyone else knew it had happened. As far as substance abuse, perhaps they knew, or not... (assuming it's Bracco, which it might not have been), it's a pretty common thing with these players...

Surely they know why Bracco was off last year, and perhaps it was substance abuse, and rehab... if so, I'd like to think, that the team I support stands behind players that have addiction issues. I'd like to think they'd work with such players, and get them cleaned up, to be better people, and perhaps better hockey players. If they try, and the players continue to have substance issues, then release them.

 

[stickty111]

Hunter acted like a child just before he left. If he has that big of an issue with Dubas over a small thing, that says a lot about Hunter's character. Hunter just wants to boss people around, and thats a bad thing for an organization. His work wasn't impressive here, and didn't produce what he or the media hyped him up as. Dubas is a smart man for not listening to him, and if Hunter didn't get he wanted, he would take shots at Dubas over the media. Unprofessional stuff from Hunter.

 

[93LEAFS]

Hunter acted like a child just before he left. If he has that big of an issue with Dubas over a small thing, that says a lot about Hunter's character. Hunter just wants to boss people around, and thats a bad thing for an organization. His work wasn't impressive here, and didn't produce what he or the media hyped him up as. Dubas is a smart man for not listening to him, and if Hunter didn't get he wanted, he would take shots at Dubas over the media. Unprofessional stuff from Hunter.

Leaked to the media? Dubas leaked so much to Mirtle it was ridiculous during that time.

You do know people in professional settings realize a new working relationship wouldn't work and move on right? That isn't childish. Dubas would have moved on if Hunter became the top guy. He worked for the Leafs another 2 and a half years after that.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Elynuik re-signed.

Toronto Marlies Re-Sign Hudson Elynuik – Toronto Marlies

 

[ACC1224]

Leaked to the media? Dubas leaked so much to Mirtle it was ridiculous during that time.

You do know people in professional settings realize a new working relationship wouldn't work and move on right? That isn't childish. Dubas would have moved on if Hunter became the top guy. He worked for the Leafs another 2 and a half years after that.

Man there are some hilarious takes in this thread.
The constant belittlement of Hunter and Lou Lam to prop up Dubas is so transparent, almost sad if not so funny.

Thanks for keeping it real when most just ignore the nonsense.

 

[deletethis]

Elynuik re-signed.

Toronto Marlies Re-Sign Hudson Elynuik – Toronto Marlies

He'll be one of the AHL contracts to watch for earning an NHL ELC. There's something projectable about his skill set IMO. He won't be a 4th liner in 2020-21. Let's see how he performs offensively.

 

[deletethis]

Leaked to the media? Dubas leaked so much to Mirtle it was ridiculous during that time.

You do know people in professional settings realize a new working relationship wouldn't work and move on right? That isn't childish. Dubas would have moved on if Hunter became the top guy. He worked for the Leafs another 2 and a half years after that.

I remember working at a place where pretty much an entire department jumped ship to other departments within a year after a particular co-worker was promoted.

edit: over sharing again

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Leaked to the media? Dubas leaked so much to Mirtle it was ridiculous during that time.

You do know people in professional settings realize a new working relationship wouldn't work and move on right? That isn't childish. Dubas would have moved on if Hunter became the top guy. He worked for the Leafs another 2 and a half years after that.

I think it would have been different if he had a better offer or growth opportunity lined up with another team. However quitting (without anything else lined up) because you did not receive the role you wanted (for what justifiable reason?) is not the best look.

Dubas would have moved on if Hunter became the top guy, but that is because he had already received multiple offers to be given a promotion by other organizations. I would not expect anyone to stick around in an organization that has promised to give you a job after 4 years - turning down multiple offers for the exact same position in another organization in the mean time - only for the organization to retract their commitment and choose a guy who is not a better candidate. I would not have expected Hunter to stick around in the organization if he was given a GM job, or really any other better position, elsewhere. However that is not what happened.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He'll be one of the AHL contracts to watch for earning an NHL ELC. There's something projectable about his skill set IMO. He won't be a 4th liner in 2020-21. Let's see how he performs offensively.

I don't think he is ready for a full time top 9 job in the AHL. He was a solid 4th liner and could occasionally step up, but nothing he has done has proven he can do more than that at this point, and I would make sure I have at least 3 centers clearly better than him on the depth chart. Right now we have Brooks and Kossila likely on the Marlies next year. We also have SDA, but I am not sure he is clearly better and it would be better if the Marlies had him and Elynuik rotate on the 4th line and occasionally into the top 9 when guys are called up/injured/need rest. I would sign another guy as a UFA on July 1.

 

[stickty111]

Some people can't accept any criticism of Hunter or Lou, that they feel it's just to prop up Dubas. It's kind of sad they just want to take shots at Dubas, just to protect the great Hunter. The favoritism for Hunter is wierd.
No NHL teams want to hire Hunter. The lack of interest speaks to what they they think of him.

Is it because he wants control, and is willing to make the organization look weak as a result? They don't like his work.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think it would have been different if he had a better offer or growth opportunity lined up with another team. However quitting (without anything else lined up) because you did not receive the role you wanted (for what justifiable reason?) is not the best look.

Dubas would have moved on if Hunter became the top guy, but that is because he had already received multiple offers to be given a promotion by other organizations. I would not expect anyone to stick around in an organization that has promised to give you a job after 4 years - turning down multiple offers for the exact same position in another organization in the mean time - only for the organization to retract their commitment and choose a guy who is not a better candidate. I would not have expected Hunter to stick around in the organization if he was given a GM job, or really any other better position, elsewhere. However that is not what happened.

He realized he couldn't work with Dubas, and he had options due to having significant wealth outside of his MLSE salary. Anyone saying its childish is being ridiculous. Dubas didn't want him here, especially evident by leaking how the draft was going to be very different right after Hunter left, and the fact he brought back someone Hunter and Lou deemed not worthy of being in scouting operations to a much higher position, same with bringing in Carniero who Hunter fired in London.

He knew his voice would be limited under Dubas, so why waste your time traveling around the world to go to junior rinks when you can comfortably go back to your old job where you are making more money.

Dubas received one loose offer from Colorado. He didn't have multiple options, and he never had the full Colorado job because it was actually deemed lateral, which is why we were able to block the interview. I don't know of anywhere where Dubas was offered the final say on players, which is what would have been a promotion.

 

[93LEAFS]

Some people can't accept any criticism of Hunter or Lou, that they feel it's just to prop up Dubas. It's kind of sad they just want to take shots at Dubas, just to protect the great Hunter. The favoritism for Hunter is wierd.
No NHL teams want to hire Hunter. The lack of interest speaks to what they they think of him.

Is it because he wants control, and is willing to make the organization look weak as a result? They don't like his work.

You honestly spout off continuously without having a clue about what you are talking about. If Lindsey Hofford could get an AGM job, you don't think that the same position was offered to Hunter?

You are the first person to bring up Hunter in recent times to bash him over the Bracco pick. Probably in an effort to do exactly what you are accusing others of doing with Hunter to Dubas. Its actually comical.

 

[zeke]

to prop up Dubas

no need to do that.

 

[zeke]

You honestly spout off continuously without having a clue about what you are talking about. If Lindsey Hofford could get an AGM job, you don't think that the same position was offered to Hunter?

You are the first person to bring up Hunter in recent times to bash him over the Bracco pick. Probably in an effort to do exactly what you are accusing others of doing with Hunter to Dubas. Its actually comical.

to be fair, he was attacked first.

 

[93LEAFS]

to be fair, he was attacked first.

He's the first person to bash Hunter in this thread, which all this devolves from. No one said anything about it before that.

 

[ACC1224]

no need to do that.

Agreed yet here we are.

 

[zeke]

Maybe hunter deserves criticism?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He knew his voice would be limited under Dubas, so why waste your time traveling around the world to go to junior rinks when you can comfortably go back to your old job where you are making more money.

Dubas received one loose offer from Colorado. He didn't have multiple options, and he never had the full Colorado job because it was actually deemed lateral, which is why we were able to block the interview. I don't know of anywhere where Dubas was offered the final say on players, which is what would have been a promotion.

I am not sure about limited, but certainly not to the extent that he wanted to be heard, which was essentially that he was the main voice. Only way he got that was as GM, and he went back to London because that was the only place he could run everything like he wanted. Money had nothing to do with it; he was still franchise owner and VP of Hockey Ops in London while he was working for the Leafs. Only thing is that he went back to being GM of London and demoted his old GM to be an Assistant... He is not making more money by doing that.

Dubas was blocked from Colorado and turned down a request from Arizona for their GM job in 2016, who eventually decided to go with someone very similar to him in Chayka.

 

[93LEAFS]

Maybe hunter deserves criticism?

Then Dubas does by the same extent for keeping Bracco around another 2 years.

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe hunter deserves criticism?

Nothing wrong with valid criticism. Honesty can be a rare commodity at times though.

 

[93LEAFS]

I am not sure about limited, but certainly not to the extent that he wanted to be heard, which was essentially that he was the main voice. Only way he got that was as GM, and he went back to London because that was the only place he could run everything like he wanted. Money had nothing to do with it; he was still franchise owner and VP of Hockey Ops in London while he was working for the Leafs. Only thing is that he went back to being GM of London and demoted his old GM to be an Assistant... He is not making more money by doing that.

Dubas was blocked from Colorado and turned down a request from Arizona for their GM job in 2016, who eventually decided to go with someone very similar to him in Chayka.

He couldn't have been blocked from Colorado though if it was a legitimate promotion. Hunter has had interviews for GM jobs post-Leafs (and was the finalist until the Oilers figured out how to get Holland out of Detroit), which is similar to just interviewing with the Coyotes.

Dubas was going to limit Hunter's say in the organization. It was known they weren't going to be able to work together. Hell, I was telling the board that 8 months before it happened. He was fine working with Lou, who was clearly the main voice at the point. It wasn't just about being the main voice, it was that he didn't believe he could work with Dubas long-term and Dubas likely believed the same. What would have been unprofessional is taking the paycheck and mailing it in.

As for the money, he made more off of the Knights than he did off his Leafs salary. So, why continue to work for someone who doesn't value your input, which was made pretty clear by actions after he left.

 

[4thline]

Elynuik re-signed.

Toronto Marlies Re-Sign Hudson Elynuik – Toronto Marlies

Like this move. Hopefully he can keep trending up and be our new (and all around better) version of Marchment and earn an ELC this year.

Doesn't have the Hollywood underdog latebloomer story though

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He couldn't have been blocked from Colorado though if it was a legitimate promotion. Hunter has had interviews for GM jobs post-Leafs (and was the finalist until the Oilers figured out how to get Holland out of Detroit), which is similar to just interviewing with the Coyotes.

Dubas was going to limit Hunter's say in the organization. It was known they weren't going to be able to work together. Hell, I was telling the board that 8 months before it happened. He was fine working with Lou, who was clearly the main voice at the point. It wasn't just about being the main voice, it was that he didn't believe he could work with Dubas long-term and Dubas likely believed the same. What would have been unprofessional is taking the paycheck and mailing it in.

He could have been fine with Lou because he still had the hope/possibility of being a GM at that point. He wasn't officially passed over yet. He may not have been the main voice of the entire team, but he was still the main voice when it came to scouting/drafting and had the possibility of being the main voice of the entire team once Lou decided to move on. Once Dubas became GM, that hope was dashed, and he likely would have no longer been able to have a complete stranglehold of the scouting/drafting like he originally did. I guess in that way he was going to be more limited, but he never should have been given that much power in the first place.

Either way, I don't really care. We seem to be doing perfectly fine without him and his friends (who left) so regardless of how civil his exit was, it does not affect the Leafs or Dubas.

As for the money, he made more off of the Knights than he did off his Leafs salary. So, why continue to work for someone who doesn't value your input, which was made pretty clear by actions after he left.

That makes absolutely no sense. He still made money off of the Knights while working for the Leafs. He was the owner. The only thing that you could argue is that he had to hire replacements for the positions he originally held with the team, but he was still VP of Hockey Ops even when he was with the Leafs and while he did promote his old AGM and hired a new AGM once he left, he did not fire either of them once he came back. Both are still with the team. So I would like to see your logic behind him making more money off of just the Knights than from working for the Leafs and still making the same money off of the Knights.

 

[93LEAFS]

He could have been fine with Lou because he still had the hope/possibility of being a GM at that point. He wasn't officially passed over yet. He may not have been the main voice of the entire team, but he was still the main voice when it came to scouting/drafting and had the possibility of being the main voice of the entire team once Lou decided to move on. Once Dubas became GM, that hope was dashed, and he likely would have no longer been able to have a complete stranglehold of the scouting/drafting like he originally did. I guess in that way he was going to be more limited, but he never should have been given that much power in the first place.



That makes absolutely no sense. He still made money off of the Knights while working for the Leafs. He was the owner. The only thing that you could argue is that he had to hire replacements for the positions he originally held with the team, but he was still VP of Hockey Ops even when he was with the Leafs and while he did promote his old AGM and hired a new AGM once he left, he did not fire either of them once he came back. Both are still with the team. So I would like to see your logic behind him making more money off of just the Knights than from working for the Leafs and still making the same kind of money off of the Knights.

I said he makes more off the Knights. Not that he made more total. He had the financial security that made it easy to walk away.

As for the power he had. That was what was pitched to him to get him to leave London? Is it unprofessional to leave a job when the autonomy you were promised is taken away? Especially when you have the security to do what you want elsewhere. People who call these actions childish clearly don’t understand the corporate world. This stuff is common place. You get told you have certain autonomy with a chance at promotion, someone else gets promoted and they are going to take away that autonomy which led you to take that position in the first place, and people actually believe that’s childish?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I said he makes more off the Knights. Not that he made more total. He had the financial security that made it easy to walk away.

As for the power he had. That was what was pitched to him to get him to leave London? Is it unprofessional to leave a job when the autonomy you were promised is taken away? Especially when you have the security to do what you want elsewhere. People who call these actions childish clearly don’t understand the corporate world. This stuff is common place. You get told you have certain autonomy with a chance at promotion, someone else gets promoted and they are going to take away that autonomy which led you to take that position in the first place, and people actually believe that’s childish?

I was going off where you said "He could go back to his old job where he was making more money". That's not true, because his old job did not make him more money. However what you are now saying makes sense; he chose power/autonomy over money.

And you have to imagine for a lot of people, they don't have the type of security that Hunter has. It's really a matter of perception and values. Hunter clearly values power/autonomy over all else, while others may find it foolish and silly that he would take a lesser job for that alone. Personally, he can go right ahead. I would only care about how he framed his exit. If he made it sound like he was slighted or ripped off, then I would have more issues than if he just said he wanted to be a GM, even if it meant he was not a GM in the NHL. The former is unprofessional, because he was not slighted or ripped off and should not behave as such. In the corporate world, if you behave poorly because someone got a job over you (even if they should not have received it over you), it is considered unprofessional. If you believe there were sinister intentions behind the choice, then that is another issue that you need to address properly. The latter is a reasonable stance for him to have.

It's really off topic now though so I am just going to end it here. Who cares what happens with Hunter at this point. He chose to leave and we seem to be better off anyways. Even Bracco is not a big deal as in a few months he likely won't be here regardless of his alleged personal misconduct.