Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects- Early Off Season time

[93LEAFS]

I was going off where you said "He could go back to his old job where he was making more money". That's not true, because his old job did not make him more money. However what you are now saying makes sense; he chose power/autonomy over money.

And you have to imagine for a lot of people, they don't have the type of security that Hunter has. It's really a matter of perception and values. Hunter clearly values power/autonomy over all else, while others may find it foolish and silly that he would take a lesser job for that alone. Personally, he can go right ahead. I would only care about how he framed his exit. If he made it sound like he was slighted or ripped off, then I would have more issues than if he just said he wanted to be a GM, even if it meant he was not a GM in the NHL. The former is unprofessional, because he was not slighted or ripped off and should not behave as such. In the corporate world, if you behave poorly because someone got a job over you (even if they should not have received it over you), it is considered unprofessional. If you believe there were sinister intentions behind the choice, then that is another issue that you need to address properly. The latter is a reasonable stance for him to have.

It's really off topic now though so I am just going to end it here. Who cares what happens with Hunter at this point. He chose to leave and we seem to be better off anyways. Even Bracco is not a big deal as in a few months he likely won't be here regardless of his alleged personal misconduct.

Where has Hunter said anywhere he was slighted or ripped off? Hunter is loaded and has the financial security to not want to work in a situation where he isn’t valued. Dubas didn’t value his input, if he did he probably wouldn’t have quickly brought back someone Hunter refused to put on the scouting staff (Wes Clark) in a higher position or bring in someone he fired. Wanting a high level of autonomy on your direct subordinates is something most scouting directors in any team want, and it’s what Shanahan offered him originally. He didn’t want to work with Dubas and Dubas’s wouldn’t have wanted to work under him. One choosing to leave isn’t unprofessional.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Where has Hunter said anywhere he was slighted or ripped off? Hunter is loaded and has the financial security to not want to work in a situation where he isn’t valued. Dubas didn’t value his input, if he did he probably wouldn’t have quickly brought back someone Hunter refused to put on the scouting staff (Wes Clark) in a higher position or bring in someone he fired. Wanting a high level of autonomy on your direct subordinates is something most scouting directors in any team want, and it’s what Shanahan offered him originally. He didn’t want to work with Dubas and Dubas’s wouldn’t have wanted to work under him. One choosing to leave isn’t unprofessional.

Read the last sentence of my second paragraph.

 

[zeke]

Then Dubas does by the same extent for keeping Bracco around another 2 years.

Eh no not really.

 

[93LEAFS]

Eh no not really.

If you are going to blame Hunter for drafting him because he’s a bad person, for something that happened post draft. Why have we kept him around?

 

[zeke]

If you are going to blame Hunter for drafting him because he’s a bad person, for something that happened post draft. Why have we kept him around?

Salvage operation?

 

[93LEAFS]

Salvage operation?

He’s a late 2nd round pick whose done well in the AHL. If anything, if he’s truly a bad person the time to trade him was last year off that season while he still had another year before he had to go through waivers.

To try to say Hunter deserves blame on this one is just cherry picking. Talking about something that happened post draft, and there has been ample time to move him.

 

[zeke]

He’s a late 2nd round pick whose done well in the AHL. If anything, if he’s truly a bad person the time to trade him was last year off that season while he still had another year before he had to go through waivers.

To try to say Hunter deserves blame on this one is just cherry picking. Talking about something that happened post draft, and there has been ample time to move him.

Hey I wanted him traded last year for purely hockey reasons. I don't really think that not dumping someone is the same as drafting them tho.

Not that I really care about this argument tho.

 

[93LEAFS]

Hey I wanted him traded last year for purely hockey reasons. I don't really think that not dumping someone is the same as drafting them tho.

Not that I really care about this argument tho.

I wanted him traded too. He has no realistic path to a job here. But, that's a hockey assessment. I have no issue with blaming Hunter for the hockey aspect of Bracco, although he's better than most players who go between 55-65. This is just cherry-picking attacking someone who that poster doesn't like, to prop up Dubas. Yet, if it was evident Bracco was a bad person (or incapable of change), wouldn't it have been evident with the Marlies where they dealt with him every day, and wouldn't the tie to have moved him have been when he had the point-per-game AHL season and still had a full year of control? I mean, this alleged incident took place long-after he was drafted, if it was actually him.

It is the same crowd who love to blame everything about this organization that goes wrong on Lou, Babs, or Hunter. Yet, we have been the same middling team most of 2020 (we had a good spell in December of 2019).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Tommy Panico traded from the Growlers to the Solar Bears. Current ECHL affiliate to former ECHL affiliate.

No big deal. He was ECHL filler and we have better/younger defensemen coming up, especially if it is true that Sapego was brought back.

 

[Fogelhund]

I wanted him traded too. He has no realistic path to a job here. But, that's a hockey assessment. I have no issue with blaming Hunter for the hockey aspect of Bracco, although he's better than most players who go between 55-65. This is just cherry-picking attacking someone who that poster doesn't like, to prop up Dubas. Yet, if it was evident Bracco was a bad person (or incapable of change), wouldn't it have been evident with the Marlies where they dealt with him every day, and wouldn't the tie to have moved him have been when he had the point-per-game AHL season and still had a full year of control? I mean, this alleged incident took place long-after he was drafted, if it was actually him.

It is the same crowd who love to blame everything about this organization that goes wrong on Lou, Babs, or Hunter. Yet, we have been the same middling team most of 2020 (we had a good spell in December of 2019).

How do we know it was evident Bracco was a bad person? If he was?

What are we hypothesizing was bad? I mean... if he had a drug addiction, wasn't the right thing to do, sit him out, and put him in an addiction program? Do the right thing for the person, and player? Which is kind of what looks like happened... I suppose it's a thin string to guess that, but I don't think it's a stretch. You try and make the person better, not just dump someone right away, who has an issue. It's good asset management, but most importantly, it's what you do for people. Even if it's a personality issue, you work with people, you give them a chance, and then eventually you move them.

There is no way Hunter, or Dubas would have known about this Kitchener incident... at least until now. I don't blame any of them. I'm not trying to defend any of them either... but, if you've got a player with an issue, whether that's addiction, illness (physical or mental), skating issues... whatever, you work with them to help make better people first, and better hockey players second. Frankly, if my team just dumped people at the first sign of an issue, I'd think less of them, than a team trying to make people better.

All that said, we are just speculating, and really have no idea what is happening, what kind of person Bracco is, or what happened with him, and how the team handled it. So, judging on pure speculation.....

 

[Duke16]

Tommy Panico traded from the Growlers to the Solar Bears. Current ECHL affiliate to former ECHL affiliate.

No big deal. He was ECHL filler and we have better/younger defensemen coming up, especially if it is true that Sapego was brought back.

Makes sense to give him a better opportunity.

Melindy is a NFL-born mainstay on D; Johnston is a good option; Kral, Hoefenmayer, Bourque, Gendron and Sapego are all young and likely to be there.

 

[Fogelhund]

Makes sense to give him a better opportunity.

Melindy is a NFL-born mainstay on D; Johnston is a good option; Kral, Hoefenmayer, Bourque, Gendron and Sapego are all young and likely to be there.

I had to read this several times, before I finally understood it. What does Melindy being a National Football League guy, have anything to do with this??? I read it again... ok, I'm not seeing where this makes sense... Oh Newfoundland.... LOL

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Makes sense to give him a better opportunity.

Melindy is a NFL-born mainstay on D; Johnston is a good option; Kral, Hoefenmayer, Bourque, Gendron and Sapego are all young and likely to be there.

Gendron and Bourque may not be back, and I would be surprised if Kral is not on the Marlies right away given there is room for him there.

 

[cookie]

Kalle Loponen is heading for overseas play - 7th round selection in 2019, the right-handed defenseman didn't crack the 0.5 point per game mark for the Sudbury Wolves. Kind of a letdown considering he can skate the puck up the ice quite well but he does have instances of icing the puck even without pressure. I would think playing with men in a more structured professional league overseas may help his game in the long run and it's far too early to quit on a 19-year-old.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kalle Loponen is heading for overseas play - 7th round selection in 2019, the right-handed defenseman didn't crack the 0.5 point per game mark for the Sudbury Wolves. Kind of a letdown considering he can skate the puck up the ice quite well but he does have instances of icing the puck even without pressure. I would think playing with men in a more structured professional league overseas may help his game in the long run and it's far too early to quit on a 19-year-old.

So is it now okay that Rasanen decided to move on from the OHL as well then? Loponen is even less prepared to move from the OHL to a pro league. He's almost certainly going to go Mestis, because he is not good enough to crack Karpat's defense next year.

CHL must have change the Import rules too. Originally they would have only been able to draft one Import since Dichow would have counted, but I guess since he is drafted they are allowed to draft two (in case he goes to the AHL next year, which is highly unlikely).

 

[kerk]

So is it now okay that Rasanen decided to move on from the OHL as well then? Loponen is even less prepared to move from the OHL to a pro league. He's almost certainly going to go Mestis, because he is not good enough to crack Karpat's defense next year.

difference is rasanen went to the KHL and not the finnish league. pretty sure popular opinion is people wish he had gone to liiga and not the KHL, because the KHL has its history of not playing young players.

i can't speak about loponen's chances at cracking any lineups, though lol

 

[SeaOfBlue]

difference is rasanen went to the KHL and not the finnish league. pretty sure popular opinion is people wish he had gone to liiga and not the KHL, because the KHL has its history of not playing young players.

i can't speak about loponen's chances at cracking any lineups, though lol

No, it was that he should have stayed in the OHL, which means no KHL nor Liiga. I would have been fine with the latter, but leaving the OHL was the right move for him.

 

[Prominence]

Jack han holds nothing back.

how do i reduce that big picture to a note?

He seems to like duczak, hollowell, rubins and dislikes mark hunter’s drafting.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Jack han holds nothing back.

how do i reduce that big picture to a note?

He seems to like duczak, hollowell, rubins and dislikes mark hunter’s drafting.

Well of course. Hunter was not an analytics guy.

 

[Menzinger]

Jack han holds nothing back.

how do i reduce that big picture to a note?

He seems to like duczak, hollowell, rubins and dislikes mark hunter’s drafting.

Wow, very interesting.

Thanks for posting

 

[deletethis]

Q: What do you think is the biggest sign of someone's potential outside of stats?

A: How quickly they are able to understand a concept, do a correct rep in practice, then transfer that rep in a game. Rasmus Sandin is an example of a player who looks relatively average until you show him something new and tell him to implement it at game speed.

Almost suggests that great coaching could turn Sandin into a great player. Thank goodness Ron "Two Hands on the Stick" Wilson didn't get his hands on this player.

Q: Hey Jack id love to know whose your dark horse pick for someone on the Marlies or leafs development to become an NHL regular
A: Kristians Rubins could play some NHL games down the road. Mac Hollowell also has a chance. How much they improve in the next 2 years will decide.

Exactly what I think.

Q:
Hey Jack , who do you think is an under the radar prospect in the Leafs organization? No big names like Sandin, of Robertson, Liljegren.
Mine would be Duszak, put up some really impressive numbers in ECHL/AHL for a first year pro.

A:
Joey is a fun player and person too. He's got big confidence in what he can do on the ice, which is one of his biggest strengths.
Would be interesting to compare his progression with Mac Hollowell's. Both are undersized RDs with skill but Mac is more polished defensively, while Joey is fearless jumping into the rush even against higher-level opponents.
I think they roomed together this year. Mac was the messy one as far as I've been told, which is the total opposite of what you'd expect if you really watched them both play hockey.

Considering Duszak's age, I think he's mostly what you see: all offense, no defense, like a minor league Barrie. Hollowell really exhibits great body position and technique when encountering opponents. I'm just not sure he won't just get overpowered despite doing everything else right.

 

[Duke16]

Almost suggests that great coaching could turn Sandin into a great player. Thank goodness Ron "Two Hands on the Stick" Wilson didn't get his hands on this player.



Exactly what I think.



Considering Duszak's age, I think he's mostly what you see: all offense, no defense, like a minor league Barrie. Hollowell really exhibits great body position and technique when encountering opponents. I'm just not sure he won't just get overpowered despite doing everything else right.

I potentially see him as a sell-high B prospect add-on to a trade as soon as this off-season. Liljegren will probably be with the Marlies to start and Lindgren/Hollowell are right's who are more polished and projectable.

 

[stickty111]

Jack han holds nothing back.

how do i reduce that big picture to a note?

He seems to like duczak, hollowell, rubins and dislikes mark hunter’s drafting.

Delete. Nevermind got it.
I'm not surprised. Hunter wasted a lot of picks on fridges, and that really hurt our drafting. All those 3 players are Dubas signings, and our drafting improved after Hunter was gone.
Nice insight from someone who was in the organization.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

What do I click on to see his points on those players and Hunter? This seems interesting.

I did not see any direct mention of Hunter, but when he talked about the four levels of scouting, I can fully believe that Hunter only did Level 1.

 

[stickty111]

I did not see any direct mention of Hunter, but when he talked about the four levels of scouting, I can fully believe that Hunter only did Level 1.

Thats true, but he did mention the previous regime picked big guys which didn't fit the way the team wants to play, so he has to be talking about Lou and Hunter.
I looked at it, and all those statements in level 1, seems to point at Hunter.