Marc Bergevin: Even a broken clock is right twice a day Edition

[Agalloch]

I have my doubts about this. Markov was never money hungry, not sure why he would now play hardball for an extra mill. Just doesn't add up.
Also, as stated, Markov felt disrespected, I strongly doubt it's because Bergevin suggested he takes on 1M in bonuses...I mean seriously.

I don't know how Bergevin and the Canadiens talked to Markov but my guess it's not the same way negociation goes with agents.

Anyway we will never know the true story.

 

[DangerDave]

Bergevin f***ed up royally no doubt but I'll give him another shot given the quality of the moves he's made recently. Hes addressed many of the problems that were plaguing this team such as coaching and scouting at both the pro and amateur level. He even acquired a 1C seemingly.

His biggest problem when he came in was being overeager after that fluke season. He should have kept building a couple years around the quality core he inherited. Avoid doing that and do a better job drafting and the Habs are in a good spot.

 

[CDN24]

I have my doubts about this. Markov was never money hungry, not sure why he would now play hardball for an extra mill. Just doesn't add up.
Also, as stated, Markov felt disrespected, I strongly doubt it's because Bergevin suggested he takes on 1M in bonuses...I mean seriously.

My thoughts are that this spiraled out of control in part due to the Vegas expansion draft. He could not sign Markov or Radulov before July 1st without needing to protect them. July 1st comes and Bergevin is Chasing UFA's, trying to sign Radulov, and probably took it for granted that markov was the easy one to get done. Markov probably felt disrespected in part because he was not the priority come July 1.

In hindsight it is probably good that Markov did not sign beacuse as good as Markov is/was- a couple of years of 39 year-old and 40 year-old Markov are not as important as the 18 year old kid who will be our no 1 centre in the future. If we have Markov last year its still a crap season but not crappy enough to get Kotkaniemi.

 

[ECWHSWI]

My thoughts are that this spiraled out of control in part due to the Vegas expansion draft. He could not sign Markov or Radulov before July 1st without needing to protect them. July 1st comes and Bergevin is Chasing UFA's, trying to sign Radulov, and probably took it for granted that markov was the easy one to get done. Markov probably felt disrespected in part because he was not the priority come July 1.

In hindsight it is probably good that Markov did not sign beacuse as good as Markov is/was- a couple of years of 39 year-old and 40 year-old Markov are not as important as the 18 year old kid who will be our no 1 centre in the future. If we have Markov last year its still a crap season but not crappy enough to get Kotkaniemi.

you do not know that.

Alzner-Markov, no brainer...

 

[CDN24]

you do not know that.

Alzner-Markov, no brainer...

Why would I play two LD together? plus it wouldn't be fair to the league to put those two speedsters together- Maybe McDavid could keep up but that's about it.

If Markov would not have improved our draft position over the 5th hole where the coyotes would have taken him, then I suggest we should not crap on Bergevin for not signing him

 

[ECWHSWI]

Why would I play two LD together? plus it wouldn't be fair to the league to put those two speedsters together- Maybe McDavid could keep up but that's about it.

If Markov would not have improved our draft position over the 5th hole where the coyotes would have taken him, then I suggest we should not crap on Bergevin for not signing him

should have made it more clear Alzner VS Markov, no brainer.

 

[BLONG7]

I don't know how Bergevin and the Canadiens talked to Markov but my guess it's not the same way negociation goes with agents.

Anyway we will never know the true story.

Disrespecting a 15 yr vet, giving a contract to Alzner...go figure. Then whines about Markov being old, and signs Mark Streit who played two games and then gets bought out.....................our GM is a clown guys, and yes if you throw enough $hit on a wall, eventually a little will stick. Most people don't have very long memories, but I do.....this clown needs to be fired, sooner the better.

 

[417]

Typical Bergevin response...not his fault..he didn't do anything wrong. It's dumbo Markov who couldn't understand how NHL contracts work. It's not like he ever signed one before or anything...

Never Bergevin's fault man.

It is possible however, that if an agent had negotiated on behalf of Markov...that deal would have gotten signed.

Maybe Markov negotiating for himself got too close to the business side of things...

There's a reason athletes are more often then not represented by an agent, its certainly not because they're generous and want to give them a cut of their deal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't know how Bergevin and the Canadiens talked to Markov but my guess it's not the same way negociation goes with agents.

Anyway we will never know the true story.

Bergevin himself said that towards the end of negotiations, he offered Markov a solid contract with performance bonus money structured in so he could make the same money he made before ($6M +/-). Bergevin said that it was easy to reach performance if Markov played a full season. Bergevin also said that Markov should of hired an agent.

Sounds to me like Bergevin considered signing Markov at $6M in guaranteed money a risk due to his age. Not saying he was right or wrong but this was his approach. Something tells me Bergevin offered him like $4M of guaranteed money with an extra $2M of performance bonuses. Markov did play 62 games and slowed down towards the end of the year in that 2016/2017 season. In hindsight, we didn't need the cap space (pretty sure that was not Bergevin's plan) so we should of signed him to a 1 year deal at $6M.

Bergevin put himself in a tough situation IMO. Decided to protect Benn and trade Beaulieu cause he felt that he would be taken in the expansion draft. Then we lost Emelin. Instead of losing 1 of the 3, he lost 2. Then when you add Markov, he lost 3 of the 4 on the LD side. Then he pinned himself in the corner and felt he needed to sign Alzner.

The 2017 off season was a mess! A lot on the to do list and he failed on several counts. Did it hurt our future? . We did end up getting into a situation where we traded Patch. Rewind 12+ months ago and the idea of trading Patch would of not been popular in our fan base. We also did draft Kotkaniemi due to not having Markov and Radulov and many players hurt.

 

[Kriss E]

It is possible however, that if an agent had negotiated on behalf of Markov...that deal would have gotten signed.

Maybe Markov negotiating for himself got too close to the business side of things...

There's a reason athletes are more often then not represented by an agent, its certainly not because they're generous and want to give them a cut of their deal.

It is also possible, as is the case every year for multiple players, that even with an agent Markov would not have re-signed with his team as an UFA.

It's also very possible that when Markov said he felt disrespected, and we see Bergevin on TV very comfortably saying ''it's first come first serve'' between him and Radu that he was probably on to something. It's probably not because Markov couldn't understand how bonuses work....
I honestly see no reason to give Bergevin any benefit of the doubt here.

With Radu, well if you recall, I told you very early on during the season that I was sure he'd test the open market, so I don't really fault Bergey for losing him. He still handled the entire situation like a schmuck though. For Markov however, I just can't buy the idea this is just all a big misunderstanding because Markov is too stupid to get how a bonus work.
I mean, if a moron like Bergevin can understand....pretty sure anybody can.

 

[Perrah]

Bergevin himself said that towards the end of negotiations, he offered Markov a solid contract with performance bonus money structured in so he could make the same money he made before ($6M +/-). Bergevin said that it was easy to reach performance if Markov played a full season. Bergevin also said that Markov should of hired an agent.

Sounds to me like Bergevin considered signing Markov at $6M in guaranteed money a risk due to his age. Not saying he was right or wrong but this was his approach. Something tells me Bergevin offered him like $4M of guaranteed money with an extra $2M of performance bonuses. Markov did play 62 games and slowed down towards the end of the year in that 2016/2017 season. In hindsight, we didn't need the cap space (pretty sure that was not Bergevin's plan) so we should of signed him to a 1 year deal at $6M.

Bergevin put himself in a tough situation IMO. Decided to protect Benn and trade Beaulieu cause he felt that he would be taken in the expansion draft. Then we lost Emelin. Instead of losing 1 of the 3, he lost 2. Then when you add Markov, he lost 3 of the 4 on the LD side. Then he pinned himself in the corner and felt he needed to sign Alzner.

The 2017 off season was a mess! A lot on the to do list and he failed on several counts. Did it hurt our future? . We did end up getting into a situation where we traded Patch. Rewind 12+ months ago and the idea of trading Patch would of not been popular in our fan base. We also did draft Kotkaniemi due to not having Markov and Radulov and many players hurt.

He signed Alzner before he knew he was losing Markov.

 

[417]

It is also possible, as is the case every year for multiple players, that even with an agent Markov would not have re-signed with his team as an UFA.

It's also very possible that when Markov said he felt disrespected, and we see Bergevin on TV very comfortably saying ''it's first come first serve'' between him and Radu that he was probably on to something. It's probably not because Markov couldn't understand how bonuses work....
I honestly see no reason to give Bergevin any benefit of the doubt here.

With Radu, well if you recall, I told you very early on during the season that I was sure he'd test the open market, so I don't really fault Bergey for losing him. He still handled the entire situation like a schmuck though. For Markov however, I just can't buy the idea this is just all a big misunderstanding because Markov is too stupid to get how a bonus work.
I mean, if a moron like Bergevin can understand....pretty sure anybody can.

I wasn't giving Bergevin benefit of the doubt...

Markov is one of my favorite all time Habs players.

But maybe handling the negotiations on his own, wasn't ideal. This isn't suggesting he's too stupid to understand how bonuses work.

But maybe being so close to the negotiations, made it too personal for him.

Just like for Bergevin, realizing that he was negotiating with a player, should have taken a more personable approach.

I'm not blaming anyone...but I can see now things could have gone wrong.

 

[Kriss E]

I wasn't giving Bergevin benefit of the doubt...

Markov is one of my favorite all time Habs players.

But maybe handling the negotiations on his own, wasn't ideal.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with that. Why speculate here?
What we do know is Bergevin told his career long Habs veteran, possibly the most unanimously respected player among Habs fans and even media, that he had to race with Radulov on getting a contract.
We don't need to speculate on this, Bergevin said it, publicly, and it made him look like a complete idiot.

When you speculate as to Markov not having an agent as a possible mishap, you are alleviating Bergevin's screw up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He signed Alzner before he knew he was losing Markov.

Your opinion. You don't think they already talked about a new contract and Bergevin got a feel for what Markov wanted and didn't like it? You don't think that Bergevin planted the seed in his head that we needed to move on from Markov based on his age and contract demands July 1st?

At the end of the day, we lost 3 of 4 of our previous LD guys. I don't care how you want to spin it. I gave you a break down on how I saw things. Bergevin clearly thought he prepared the Habs for days without Markov with the Alzner signing. He pinned himself in the corner with that terrible move based on what we had left on the LD side.

 

[Agalloch]

Or maybe it has nothing to do with that. Why speculate here?
What we do know is Bergevin told his career long Habs veteran, possibly the most unanimously respected player among Habs fans and even media, that he had to race with Radulov on getting a contract.
We don't need to speculate on this, Bergevin said it, publicly, and it made him look like a complete idiot.

When you speculate as to Markov not having an agent as a possible mishap, you are alleviating Bergevin's screw up.

He did. He screwed up but he's not completely stupid, there are always 2 sides of a story.

 

[417]

Or maybe it has nothing to do with that. Why speculate here?

I wasn't involved in the negotiations...speculating is all I can do.

What we do know is Bergevin told his career long Habs veteran, possibly the most unanimously respected player among Habs fans and even media, that he had to race with Radulov on getting a contract.
We don't need to speculate on this, Bergevin said it, publicly, and it made him look like a complete idiot.

But we CAN speculate on WHY he had said deadline.

Personally, bigger picture, not bringing back Markov probably was the best thing for this organization.

Its just really unfortunate that things had to end that way with that player.

When you speculate as to Markov not having an agent as a possible mishap, you are alleviating Bergevin's screw up.

I don't think anyone screwed up...contract negotiations can get tricky and it's never one person's doing.

So I wasn't alleviating anyone from blame, I'm not looking to blame anyone.

Markov did what he felt was best for him a d Bergevin did what he felt was best for the organization.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wasn't giving Bergevin benefit of the doubt...

Markov is one of my favorite all time Habs players.

But maybe handling the negotiations on his own, wasn't ideal. This isn't suggesting he's too stupid to understand how bonuses work.

But maybe being so close to the negotiations, made it too personal for him.

Just like for Bergevin, realizing that he was negotiating with a player, should have taken a more personable approach.

I'm not blaming anyone...but I can see now things could have gone wrong.

Markov was flabbergasted that he could not get the same $6M rate he got in previous seasons. Bergevin looked at this age and games played and focused on a base contract with performance bonus structured in.

I see it two ways...

- Bergevin had a focus and it was to bring Markov back but with a deal that work for the Habs.
- Markov got offended cause of the harsh reality of start low vs start high and what is said in contract negotiations. Would a Agent in the middle have got a deal done? Not sure but maybe Markov's feelings would of not been hurt.

I see it from both sides and when you look back in hindsight, it's a shame cause we all respected Markov and we didn't use his cap space on anyone else. He didn't get his 1000 games.

 

[Kriss E]

I wasn't involved in the negotiations...speculating is all I can do.


But we CAN speculate on WHY he had said deadline.

Personally, bigger picture, not bringing back Markov probably was the best thing for this organization.

Its just really unfortunate that things had to end that way with that player.


I don't think anyone screwed up...contract negotiations can get tricky and it's never one person's doing.

So I wasn't alleviating anyone from blame, I'm not looking to blame anyone.

Markov did what he felt was best for him a d Bergevin did what he felt was best for the organization.

Euhm...So? Is that an argument? You know of any GM who's purposely sabbotaging his team and job?

The Markov negotiations were a complete screw up. Who you kiddin..loll

 

[417]

Markov was flabbergasted that he could not get the same $6M rate he got in previous seasons. Bergevin looked at this age and games played and focused on a base contract with performance bonus structured in.

I see it two ways...

- Bergevin had a focus and it was to bring Markov back but with a deal that work for the Habs.
- Markov got offended cause of the harsh reality of start low vs start high and what is said in contract negotiations. Would a Agent in the middle have got a deal done? Not sure but maybe Markov's feelings would of not been hurt.

I see it from both sides and when you look back in hindsight, it's a shame cause we all respected Markov and we didn't use his cap space on anyone else. He didn't get his 100 games.

Like I said...I don't feel a need to blame a side.

Both parties are negotiating in their own best interest. So there's always a risk that things don't work out.

 

[Perrah]

Your opinion. You don't think they already talked about a new contract and Bergevin got a feel for what Markov wanted and didn't like it? You don't think that Bergevin planted the seed in his head that we needed to move on from Markov based on his age and contract demands July 1st?

At the end of the day, we lost 3 of 4 of our previous LD guys. I don't care how you want to spin it. I gave you a break down on how I saw things. Bergevin clearly thought he prepared the Habs for days without Markov with the Alzner signing. He pinned himself in the corner with that terrible move based on what we had left on the LD side.

Lol, Bergevin was talking about resigning Markov still in the press conference the day after he signed Alzner. That is a fact, not an opinion, fact. Markov wasnt gone to the KHL until July 28th.

 

[Kriss E]

He did. He screwed up but he's not completely stupid, there are always 2 sides of a story.

That's where we disagree. I think Bergevin is as dumb as they come.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Like I said...I don't feel a need to blame a side.

Both parties are negotiating in their own best interest. So there's always a risk that things don't work out.

I don't like the blame game either. But those who hate Bergevin are all over it.

Markov is guilty of not going after a larger deal in his last contract IMO. He left money on the table for the Habs cause he surely gets more if he goes to UFA. He represented himself and it worked out. He expected it to go down the same way in the next contract and Bergevin had different plans. Sad story if you ask me. Cause it's Markov!

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

People need to get over the Markov negotiation already. We lost a 38-39 year old defenceman in a season where we would've sucked even if he played, it isn't like we let a 28 year old LHD walk away who could've help us for several years in a position we need help at.

Obviously signing Markov over Alzner would've been the better choice, but in hindsight things worked out a lot better - we got an excellent prospect at a position we needed help at and we went younger in the next off-season as opposed to re-signing Pacioretty and continuing to be mediocre as ****. Markov was one of my favourite players and it sucks the way he left, but over the years I've seen Koivu not re-signed and replaced with Gomez and Patrick Roy traded for garbage and the impact of him not re-signing was nowhere as near as bad as those two cases.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lol, Bergevin was talking about resigning Markov still in the press conference the day after he signed Alzner. That is a fact, not an opinion, fact. Markov wasnt gone to the KHL until July 28th.

It don't mean that Bergevin already had plans to move on from Markov after acquiring Alzner. Of course Bergevin wanted Markov back but on a very team friendly deal.

By a dog if you want loyalty. When did he say that? Bergevin was clearly frustrated in contract negotiations with both Radulov and Markov. He already knew well before us what possible outcomes were going to happen.

 

[417]

Euhm...So? Is that an argument? You know of any GM who's purposely sabbotaging his team and job?

Not sure what the purpose of this post is...

I was just reiterating that looking for someone to blame in a scenario where both parties are working in their both interest is not something I'm looking to do personally.

I'm not blaming anyone, nor am I absolving anyone of blame. This is the business side of sports, I can remove my emotional attachment to players or the team in this scenario.

The Markov negotiations were a complete screw up. Who you kiddin..loll

I'll leave the characterization of it to you, I don't care to qualify it.

At the end of the day, had Markov signed, I think the makeup of this team would be alot different today.