Marc Bergevin: Even a broken clock is right twice a day Edition

[Kriss E]

Like I said...I don't feel a need to blame a side.

Both parties are negotiating in their own best interest. So there's always a risk that things don't work out.

You never do mate.

Bergevin is quick to give Alzner close to 5M..meanwhile he tells Radu and Markov to race for the remaining cap space and announces it to the world. He's left with his dick and in his hands, 8M of free space, and a putrid defense.
But ya...nobody screwed up...poor Bergey tried man..he had best interest at heart...
Loll..you're too funny bro.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not blaming anyone, nor am I absolving anyone of blame. This is the business side of sports, I can remove my emotional attachment to players or the team in this scenario.

As if you or anybody else here is not emotionally attached to this team.

 

[417]

You never do mate.

That's false and you know it.

Bergevin is quick to give Alzner close to 5M..meanwhile he tells Radu and Markov to race for the remaining cap space and announces it to the world. He's left with his dick and in his hands, 8M of free space, and a putrid defense.
But ya...nobody screwed up...poor Bergey tried man..he had best interest at heart...
Loll..you're too funny bro.

I never said he didnt screw up with the Alzner contract, stop creating false arguments.

As for Radulov and Markov....

Time to get over it man.

You wouldn't be any happier with this team had he managed to sign both of those players.

Stop.

 

[417]

As if you or anybody else here is not emotionally attached to this team.

Read what I just wrote...

I said "I can remove emotional attachment to players or the team".

That implies that I have emotional attachment to the players or team.

I can however, put it aside when it comes to contract negotiations.

Settle down mate.

 

[Perrah]

It don't mean that Bergevin already had plans to move on from Markov after acquiring Alzner. Of course Bergevin wanted Markov back but on a very team friendly deal.

By a dog if you want loyalty. When did he say that? Bergevin was clearly frustrated in contract negotiations with both Radulov and Markov. He already knew well before us what possible outcomes were going to happen.

He said that July 2nd, a day after signing Alzner. Everyone knows the possible outcomes, sign him or dont.

 

[Agalloch]

That's where we disagree. I think Bergevin is as dumb as they come.

Yea,.. sure. I don't believe it at all.

 

[Kriss E]

That's false and you know it.


I never said he didnt screw up with the Alzner contract, stop creating false arguments.

As for Radulov and Markov....

Time to get over it man.

You wouldn't be any happier with this team had he managed to sign both of those players.

Stop.

1- Markov said he felt direspected.
2- He was never money hungry.
3- Played his entire career here, was probably his career ending contract. Looking for 2 years.
4- Bergevin on record saying first come first serve between Radu and Markov.

Your conclusion...*drum roll*.....Markov had no agent so hum, whatever, nobody is wrong. Bergevin cared for the Habs. Markov cared for Markov.
Loll...say what?

Seriously one of the oddest conclusions one can draw.

Maybe Markov not having an agent didn't help.....OR....maybe it changed absolutely nothing.
What we do know though is Bergevin giving them this ultimatum and Markov saying he felt disrespected.
But sure. Bergevin did not screw up at all here, not even a tinsy bit.

 

[BLONG7]

It is possible however, that if an agent had negotiated on behalf of Markov...that deal would have gotten signed.

Maybe Markov negotiating for himself got too close to the business side of things...

There's a reason athletes are more often then not represented by an agent, its certainly not because they're generous and want to give them a cut of their deal.

Martin Brodeur never had an agent........he and Lou did every one of his contracts...now that's respect for your player...and Lou is considered a tough guy to deal with, but respected his star.

Bergevin respects no one, but his own ego...and that's sad. A narcisistic ego maniac in control of the Habs, and he thought PK's personality was too much........give me a break.

 

[417]

1- Markov said he felt direspected.

That's always a risk when you negotiate you're own deal - once again, why do you think agents exist? Cause players enjoy giving them 4% of their signed contracts?

2- He was never money hungry.

Never said he was, not sure why you're bringing this up.

3- Played his entire career here, was probably his career ending contract. Looking for 2 years.

As I said, I get it...he's looking out for his own best interest.

4- Bergevin on record saying first come first serve between Radu and Markov.

As I said earlier, Bergevin should have taken a more personable approach, at least publicly.

Your conclusion...*drum roll*.....Markov had no agent so hum, whatever, nobody is wrong. Bergevin cared for the Habs. Markov cared for Markov.
Loll...say what?

That's not my conclusion - that's your cherry picked and spun conclusion that you're passing off as my own.

Seriously one of the oddest conclusions one can draw.

Maybe because you came up with that yourself???

Maybe Markov not having an agent didn't help.....OR....maybe it changed absolutely nothing.

Agreed...but so you said, he felt personally insulted, do you think you could step down from your pedestal for one second and perhaps acknowledge that those feelings MIGHT be tied into the fact he negotiated this deal himself?

I mean, just for one second...after that you can go back to dismissing everyone else opinions that aren't your own.

What we do know though is Bergevin giving them this ultimatum and Markov saying he felt disrespected.
But sure. Bergevin did not screw up at all here, not even a tinsy bit.

Again, blame game is your thing...I don't care in this particular situation.

Alzner contract is square in him...I've got no issues saying MB ****ed that one all up.

But the Markov situation, I don't care or need to blame anyone.

They each had their own interest in mind and neither seemed willing to compromise.

That's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

 

[417]

Martin Brodeur never had an agent........he and Lou did every one of his contracts...now that's respect for your player...and Lou is considered a tough guy to deal with, but respected his star.

Bergevin respects no one, but his own ego...and that's sad. A narcisistic ego maniac in control of the Habs, and he thought PK's personality was too much........give me a break.

I mean...good for Brodeur and Lamoriello.

Not sure what that has to do with Bergevin and Markov.

Bergevin is not Lamoriello and Markov is not Brodeur.

If anything, the only thing I'm drawing from this is that Bergevin AND Markov could have learned a whole lot from Lamoriello and Brodeur.

 

[Belial]

Still, this Radulov and Markov talking?

With hindsight thank god he f***ed up (even if I don't completely agree he f***ed up).

 

[scrubadam]

People need to get over the Markov negotiation already. We lost a 38-39 year old defenceman in a season where we would've sucked even if he played, it isn't like we let a 28 year old LHD walk away who could've help us for several years in a position we need help at.

Obviously signing Markov over Alzner would've been the better choice, but in hindsight things worked out a lot better - we got an excellent prospect at a position we needed help at and we went younger in the next off-season as opposed to re-signing Pacioretty and continuing to be mediocre as ****. Markov was one of my favourite players and it sucks the way he left, but over the years I've seen Koivu not re-signed and replaced with Gomez and Patrick Roy traded for garbage and the impact of him not re-signing was nowhere as near as bad as those two cases.

This is where I am at with it. Think about it outside of getting Markov his 1000 and retiring a Hab like Pleks why do people cry over Markov so much? So he could of helped us to finish in the 10-15 range. 39 year old Markov as our 1D last year? Price/Max playing like caca and Weber injured. And don't get me started on Markovs playoffs over the last 2 years, 18 games 3 points. 40 playoff games under MB and 14 points total. So even if Markov got the team to the playoffs somehow as our 1D with no Weber he isn't getting the team past the 1st round. And to top it off he would of been traded for a 2nd like Pleks was so in reality its crying over Markov for 60 games or so.

Yes with all the cap space there wasn't a reason to be cheap and not give Markov a contract and yes it would be a big resepect to see him play 1000 in a habs uniform. I am sure Markov has his reasons for not accepting the offer but as a fan I don't really care. To me he had an easy contract to hit bonuses and I don't see a reason to not come back to the team. He don't like MB or felt disrespected well as a fan I don't give a flying f*** if he loves MB or hates him. MB isn't the habs and MB's face isn't on the sweater either. You play for the CH not MB in the end. You suite up and ignore MB for the season, heck by xmas its probably water under the bridge and no one cares about the summer negotiations.

 

[BLONG7]

I mean...good for Brodeur and Lamoriello.

Not sure what that has to do with Bergevin and Markov.

Bergevin is not Lamoriello and Markov is not Brodeur.

If anything, the only thing I'm drawing from this is that Bergevin AND Markov could have learned a whole lot from Lamoriello and Brodeur.

We have a clown for a GM, and the Devils had a HOF er showing respect to another player HOF er

Pretty strait forward, Bergevin sux and blew his teams summer, by being an a$$-clown. Seems pretty strait forward eh...but hey, it's your opinion to protect Bergy, so be it...

 

[417]

We have a clown for a GM, and the Devils had a HOF er showing respect to another player HOF er

Pretty strait forward, Bergevin sux and blew his teams summer, by being an a$$-clown. Seems pretty strait forward eh...but hey, it's your opinion to protect Bergy, so be it...

Yes of course...I'm always protecting Bergevin.

Clearly the irony of me criticizing Bergevin IN THE VERY POST YOU QUOTED, is completely lost on you.

Not wasting my time with clown *** posts like these anymore.

 

[teamfirst]

So it's a ridiculous exaggeration to say he's 1/7...but it's not to say he's 6/7? loll..

For the record, I don't think he's 1/7. He definitely isn't 6/7 either. In any event, who cares, he's shown enough failures to warrant a firing. This shouldn't even be a discussion anymore.

I'm not the one who made the baseball analogy and i didnt say he was 6 for 7...... but i would say more like 3 for 4 with 2 walk....loll..

 

[CDN24]

Martin Brodeur never had an agent........he and Lou did every one of his contracts...now that's respect for your player...and Lou is considered a tough guy to deal with, but respected his star.

Bergevin respects no one, but his own ego...and that's sad. A narcisistic ego maniac in control of the Habs, and he thought PK's personality was too much........give me a break.

Brodeur- interesting choice, I don't think he and Lou did the last contract with St Louis after the Devils let him walk as a UFA. Kinda fits the Markov situation. Aging veteran not resigned by the team he played his whole career for.

 

[BLONG7]

Yes of course...I'm always protecting Bergevin.

Clearly the irony of me criticizing Bergevin IN THE VERY POST YOU QUOTED, is completely lost on you.

Not wasting my time with clown *** posts like these anymore.

If I want to argue with a child, I've got 2 of my own to do it with.

Have a snickers man...........you were defending Bergevin and calling out Markov...

 

[417]

Have a snickers man...........you were defending Bergevin and calling out Markov...

Actually I defended no one or called out anyone.

In fact, I even wrote in the very post YOU quoted that Bergevin AND Markov could have learned a lot from Lamoriello and Brodeur.

Saying that Markov maybe felt disrespected becaus he chose to represent himself, is not me calling him out.

Just like me saying Bergevin should have handled negotiations with Markov, knowing he was representing himself, differently, is not me defending him.

 

[BLONG7]

Actually I defended no one or called out anyone.

In fact, I even wrote in the very post YOU quoted that Bergevin AND Markov could have learned a lot from Lamoriello and Brodeur.

Saying that Markov maybe felt disrespected becaus he chose to represent himself, is not me calling him out.

Just like me saying Bergevin should have handled negotiations with Markov, knowing he was representing himself, differently, is not me defending him.

Bergevin should have shown way more respect to Markov, we all know it. That's my take.............you are sitting on the fence defending Bergevin and saying Markov did not take the best route. That's your 2 cents, so be it we don't agree. But you are being juvenille about it...because someone disagrees with you.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Who cares if Markov or Radulov were older and wanted too much money, when you trade PK Subban for Shea Weber you're making an all-in move and you need to follow that up with more moves to make a run around Weber and Price's best remaining years. If that means giving Markov an extra year or giving Radulov 500k more than you wanted then you have to bite the bullet and do it because you've traded away your #1D for a guy in his 30s who's now 33. Now we're sorta in this limbo where by the time the team finishes this pseudo-rebuild you have to seriously wonder if Weber and Petry's decline aren't going to make the team worse off in aggregate.

The point is that there's no direction whatsoever. When he took over it was "build through the draft" and be patient, then he makes a huge ostensibly "win now" trade for Weber but does nothing at the deadline to supplement that team with expiring Markov and Radulov. Then he lets his #2D and best forward from 16-17 walk and replaces them with Xavier LaFlamme and what's probably the 2nd worst contract in the league (which a bunch of online nerds that follow hockey for fun immediately recognized as a disaster on day 1). Then when the team predictably sucked after bleeding talent for years, that was the justification to go younger and start a retool or rebuild or whatever, but for some reason the idea of trading a 33 year old defenseman during this rebuild is completely sacrilegious and we have to circle the wagons whenever someone suggests it might not be a good idea to start a rebuild and count on 34, 35, 36, or 37 year old Weber to be the #1D.

 

[417]

Bergevin should have shown way more respect to Markov, we all know it. That's my take.............

What's the difference between you writing this.

And me saying, on 4 separate occasions now...

That Bergrvin should have changed his approach knowing Markov was negotiating his own deal and been more personable?

Is that not me saying he should have shown him more respect?

you are sitting on the fence defending Bergevin and saying Markov did not take the best route. That's your 2 cents, so be it we don't agree. But you are being juvenille about it...because someone disagrees with you.

I'm not sitting on any fence and if anyone here is being juvenile, its actually you.

Stop trying to brand my posts as me defending or calling people out.

I am not nor have I ever been "Team Bergevin" or "Team Player X"...I'm only pro Habs.

I've said a half dozen times this morning that I don't blame ANYONE for the Markov negotiations.

You're not even bothering reading my posts, you've just decided to label me as a defender in posts that I'm actually criticizing him...I mean you don't even have the capacity to recognize when I criticize him because you're so busy labeling me...its so freaking annoying. This crap has been going on for months here.

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

Brodeur- interesting choice, I don't think he and Lou did the last contract with St Louis after the Devils let him walk as a UFA. Kinda fits the Markov situation. Aging veteran not resigned by the team he played his whole career for.

The NHL is still a business, I think respect aside Lamorello didnt feel Brodeur was up to the job anymore, Markov on the other hand was still a top pairing Dman (for the habs anyway). Theres showing a player respect but knowing when to say goodbye and theres letting your ego do the negotiating and torpedoing the relationship between a talented player whose been very loyal, and could have been a good ambassador for the habs in the future. Bergevin handled the negotiations horribly and the comments he made publicly are an embarrassment to the team. The CH should never have a baffoon like that calling the shots, we arent some chickenshit franchise like the sens or arizona

 

[scrubadam]

The NHL is still a business, I think respect aside Lamorello didnt feel Brodeur was up to the job anymore, Markov on the other hand was still a top pairing Dman (for the habs anyway). Theres showing a player respect but knowing when to say goodbye and theres letting your ego do the negotiating and torpedoing the relationship between a talented player whose been very loyal, and could have been a good ambassador for the habs in the future. Bergevin handled the negotiations horribly and the comments he made publicly are an embarrassment to the team. The CH should never have a baffoon like that calling the shots, we arent some chicken**** franchise like the sens or arizona

Is it not possible to enterain the idea that Markov by not having an agent and scheduling his wedding on July 1 was doing some of this? Why is it only a 1 way street where the GM is always a meany and the players are innocent little lambs.

Lets take money out of the equation because hockey players are paid incredible sums and Markov has earned 10's of millions playing for the habs during his career. Why is the fact that Markov didn't want the contract MB offered him all on MB and has 0 to do with Markov and his stance? So he wanted a guranteed 6 mill, MB only wanted to give him bonuses. I don't care about Markov's bank account, looks like to me he has plenty of money. So why as a fan should I not think Markov should accept the offer and finish his career here? Because the team owes him even though they have paid him 55 million dollars already?

And regardless of MB's PC crap, Markov still waited till July 28th to sign with AK Bars, the PC was on July 2nd. Thats 4 weeks between. So IMO he was still thinking about coming back here and I am sure if MB said 2 years 12 million he would of signed even if MB took out a billboard with a photoshop of Markovs face on a dogs body. Clearly whatever was said at the PC didn't stop Markov from thinking about coming back here for a few more weeks. Maybe because reality is that all the PC, dog talk etc is really a smokescreen and the players care about $$$ in the end and Markov wasn't getting that from MB and moved on ?

 

[groovejuice]

Markov was flabbergasted that he could not get the same $6M rate he got in previous seasons. Bergevin looked at this age and games played and focused on a base contract with performance bonus structured in.

I see it two ways...

- Bergevin had a focus and it was to bring Markov back but with a deal that work for the Habs.
- Markov got offended cause of the harsh reality of start low vs start high and what is said in contract negotiations. Would a Agent in the middle have got a deal done? Not sure but maybe Markov's feelings would of not been hurt.

I see it from both sides and when you look back in hindsight, it's a shame cause we all respected Markov and we didn't use his cap space on anyone else. He didn't get his 100 games.

I never forgot that the agentless Markov always took a team friendly contract, signing for the identical amount for 3 straight contract periods.

When the time came for some reciprocity from the team, it never appeared. Bergevin was only too happy to open the vault for Alzner however.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this was an infantile response to a harmless game of cards on the team plane.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never forgot that the agentless Markov always took a team friendly contract, signing for the identical amount for 3 straight contract periods.

When the time came for some reciprocity from the team, it never appeared. Bergevin was only too happy to open the vault for Alzner however.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this was an infantile response to a harmless game of cards on the team plane.

Bergevin had a focus in terms of negotiation approach and he clearly disrespected Markov. Markov also should of known that the money he left on the table in the previous contracts held no value to a NHL GM. What a mess of a situation. Sad really

I wonder how much frustration Bergevin had with Radulov spilled over into the Markov negotiation? Lets hope Bergevin learned from that mess.