Marc Bergevin: Draft? Edition (XIV)

[Habs Halifax]

The remaining soft wingers will look a lot more effective if some stronger wingers are added to the mix.

We also don't know which of the players are playing injured.

Agreed! A few changes here and there and it looks so much better. We have to be careful with loosing our skating cause we want size. We just need a better balance shuffle

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I have to say that things are looking up for Bergevin.

Of his major acquisitions, all but Drouin are being impactful contributors. Weber, Domi, Danault, Petry, Suzuki, Tatar, are each helping out a lot. Chiarot, Kulak, Byron, Armia are helpful as well. But Weber is the captain and anchors the defense, Petry completed the defense, Suzuki is the first line C, Danault is an elite third line C, and Domi completes the offense. That's a lot.

Recent Habs-draftees like Lehkonen, Evans, Mete, and Kotkaniemi are contributing.

The center line might be the deepest it's been in the 21st century. Some might argue that Koivu-Plekanec-Lang was deeper ... Ok but they were older. Much older. And this one will be better.

Meanwhile, the Habs are in a good cap position.

Meanwhile, the Habs have one if the deeper farm systems in the NHL, are going to be adding 10+ picks, and finally have a great AHL coach.

Keep it up Bergevin.

I'll wait for a full season before giving praises. I think most are deluded into thinking this is a defining sample.

 

[DAChampion]

I'll wait for a full season before giving praises. I think most are deluded into thinking this is a defining sample.

I might be deluded, but I think that the groundwork for many if the changes goes back to the summer of 2018.

 

[Shabs]

I might be deluded, but I think that the groundwork for many if the changes goes back to the summer of 2018.

And bozovin goes back to May 2012.



I could not find a puking emoji

 

[Whitesnake]

I have to say that things are looking up for Bergevin.

Of his major acquisitions, all but Drouin are being impactful contributors. Weber, Domi, Danault, Petry, Suzuki, Tatar, are each helping out a lot. Chiarot, Kulak, Byron, Armia are helpful as well. But Weber is the captain and anchors the defense, Petry completed the defense, Suzuki is the first line C, Danault is an elite third line C, and Domi completes the offense. That's a lot.

Recent Habs-draftees like Lehkonen, Evans, Mete, and Kotkaniemi are contributing.

The center line might be the deepest it's been in the 21st century. Some might argue that Koivu-Plekanec-Lang was deeper ... Ok but they were older. Much older. And this one will be better.

Meanwhile, the Habs are in a good cap position.

Meanwhile, the Habs have one if the deeper farm systems in the NHL, are going to be adding 10+ picks, and finally have a great AHL coach.

Keep it up Bergevin.

Obviously don't share your sentiment. He has done a fine job. But not enough to even see an improvement so far. And the farm team and prospects always look great before they reach the pros. Every of what you call a great acquisition is STILL not improving this team. You had none of those players before and were doing as good. This year would have been the 4th year out of 5 to miss the playoffs. And when the kids will be ready to compete, added with wingers that will be able to complete, you will have to find your anchor on your D, and a goalie. People have to wish Primeau is the guy. Unless Askarov is our pick.

 

[LaP]

Obviously don't share your sentiment. He has done a fine job. But not enough to even see an improvement so far. And the farm team and prospects always look great before they reach the pros. Every of what you call a great acquisition is STILL not improving this team. You had none of those players before and were doing as good. This year would have been the 4th year out of 5 to miss the playoffs. And when the kids will be ready to compete, added with wingers that will be able to complete, you will have to find your anchor on your D, and a goalie. People have to wish Primeau is the guy. Unless Askarov is our pick.

The thing with the farm is it doesn't look that great.

• Brook had 13 points -3 in 60 games in the AHL. It's not unheard off to see a dman doing 13 points -3 in his first AHL season and then develop into a solid NHLer but it's the exception more than the rule. It was a very hard season for him and at this point he is a dime a dozen prospect and every team got 2 or 3 of them.
• Same for Poehling. 13 points -2 in 36 AHL games is not good at all. I still like his potential but it's not looking like he'll be a dominant top 6 anytime soon. At this point he's not really doing more than any other 1st round pick who have yet to reach the NHL.
• Both Mete and Fleury have shown the ability to be good 3rd pairing dmen but the offensive is not there for now. They could develop into okayish 2nd pairing but expecting more than that is kind of not realistic. Their status for now is the same as any top 60 drafted dman who is struggling to be productive at the NHL level but is doing okay defensively. There's many of them. At least Fleury is not small.
  
• At this point Ikonen is pretty much a bust.
• Ylonen is not progressing in Finland. In fact it was his worst season statistically speaking. Not looking very good so far. Again he doesn't stand out at all.
• Juulsen looks like someone who will always be injured

What remains is JK, Suzuki, Romanov, Caufield and maybe Struble. Caufield did not impress me at all at the u20. Small sample size but i really did not see the rumored high skills. It's not as great as some guys think it is imo. We really needed that high pick this year and the Sergachev trade really is looking worse every game Drouin is playing for us.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The thing with the farm is it doesn't look that great.

• Brook had 13 points -3 in 60 games in the AHL. It's not unheard off to see a dman doing 13 points -3 in his first AHL season and then develop into a solid NHLer but it's the exception more than the rule. It was a very hard season for him and at this point he is a dime a dozen prospect and every team got 2 or 3 of them.
• Same for Poehling. 13 points -2 in 36 AHL games is not good at all. I still like his potential but it's not looking like he'll be a dominant top 6 anytime soon. At this point he's not really doing more than any other 1st round pick who have yet to reach the NHL.
• Both Mete and Fleury have shown the ability to be good 3rd pairing dmen but the offensive is not there for now. They could develop into okayish 2nd pairing but expecting more than that is kind of not realistic. Their status for now is the same as any top 60 drafted dman who is struggling to be productive at the NHL level but is doing okay defensively. There's many of them. At least Fleury is not small.
  
• At this point Ikonen is pretty much a bust.
• Ylonen is not progressing in Finland. In fact it was his worst season statistically speaking. Not looking very good so far. Again he doesn't stand out at all.
• Juulsen looks like someone who will always be injured

What remains is JK, Suzuki, Romanov, Caufield and maybe Struble. Caufield did not impress me at all at the u20. Small sample size but i really did not see the rumored high skills. It's not as great as some guys think it is imo. We really needed that high pick this year and the Sergachev trade really is looking worse every game Drouin is playing for us.

You forgot Primeau and Norlinder

 

[Whitesnake]

The thing with the farm is it doesn't look that great.

• Brook had 13 points -3 in 60 games in the AHL. It's not unheard off to see a dman doing 13 points -3 in his first AHL season and then develop into a solid NHLer but it's the exception more than the rule. It was a very hard season for him and at this point he is a dime a dozen prospect and every team got 2 or 3 of them.
• Same for Poehling. 13 points -2 in 36 AHL games is not good at all. I still like his potential but it's not looking like he'll be a dominant top 6 anytime soon. At this point he's not really doing more than any other 1st round pick who have yet to reach the NHL.
• Both Mete and Fleury have shown the ability to be good 3rd pairing dmen but the offensive is not there for now. They could develop into okayish 2nd pairing but expecting more than that is kind of not realistic. Their status for now is the same as any top 60 drafted dman who is struggling to be productive at the NHL level but is doing okay defensively. There's many of them. At least Fleury is not small.
  
• At this point Ikonen is pretty much a bust.
• Ylonen is not progressing in Finland. In fact it was his worst season statistically speaking. Not looking very good so far. Again he doesn't stand out at all.
• Juulsen looks like someone who will always be injured

What remains is JK, Suzuki, Romanov, Caufield and maybe Struble. Caufield did not impress me at all at the u20. Small sample size but i really did not see the rumored high skills. It's not as great as some guys think it is imo. We really needed that high pick this year and the Sergachev trade really is looking worse every game Drouin is playing for us.

And the problem now is that we won't be able to blame Sylvain Lefebvre.....sucks. Maybe we will have to look elsewhere this time around....

 

[The Real Timo]

It is funny how all of a sudden winger position is considered bad for the Habs. Always used to be the center.

 

[Kriss E]

I have to say that things are looking up for Bergevin.

Of his major acquisitions, all but Drouin are being impactful contributors. Weber, Domi, Danault, Petry, Suzuki, Tatar, are each helping out a lot. Chiarot, Kulak, Byron, Armia are helpful as well. But Weber is the captain and anchors the defense, Petry completed the defense, Suzuki is the first line C, Danault is an elite third line C, and Domi completes the offense. That's a lot.

Recent Habs-draftees like Lehkonen, Evans, Mete, and Kotkaniemi are contributing.

The center line might be the deepest it's been in the 21st century. Some might argue that Koivu-Plekanec-Lang was deeper ... Ok but they were older. Much older. And this one will be better.

Meanwhile, the Habs are in a good cap position.

Meanwhile, the Habs have one if the deeper farm systems in the NHL, are going to be adding 10+ picks, and finally have a great AHL coach.

Keep it up Bergevin.

Keep it up? You do realize we were set to miss the POs as the 24th seed for the 4th time in 5 years right?

Can you believe that with all of the things you mentioned being great...we still couldn't even qualify for the POs in a legit season? So...how good of a job has he actually done?
You're usually pragmatic, I think you've gotten sucked into some fanboyism.

There are reasons to be optimistic especially with Suzuki and KK playing as they have lately but it's still early and there are clearly players not performing up to par. Rask just left his team, McGuire mentioned in the first series how some players are already fed up, and the level of hockey we're seeing is nowhere near the usual PO levels.
I would hold up on the optimism, at least until we can actually see the team convincingly make the POs.

As for the upcoming draft...most of our picks are in 3+. Still good, but we don't even have an extra 1st rd pick. Our prospects that still haven't joined us...I rather wait before claiming victory. Also important to note, having a good prospect pool is the result of failing to make the POs every year. That's literally the idea behind how the NHL set up the draft. Bad teams will get compensated and helped for their struggles so they can climb back up.
We are still failing to make the POs though and a lot of those great prospects haven't made the team.


All in all is I look at how the team performs, not the individuals. You can win every trade you make, if the team isn't better for it then who gives a crap really?

 

[LaP]

You forgot Primeau and Norlinder

Primeau will replace Price. We gain nothing. I've not seen Norlinder enough and he was not playing in the top division this year so hard to consider him more than any other good prospects around. He did not impress me that much at the u20. Was good but certainly not impressive enough for me to consider him a guy who could be a top 3 in the NHL anytime soon.

 

[LaP]

And the problem now is that we won't be able to blame Sylvain Lefebvre.....sucks. Maybe we will have to look elsewhere this time around....

Which is why keeping Lefebvre there for so long was a mistake Should have been fired after 3 seasons.

 

[DAChampion]

Obviously don't share your sentiment. He has done a fine job. But not enough to even see an improvement so far. And the farm team and prospects always look great before they reach the pros. Every of what you call a great acquisition is STILL not improving this team. You had none of those players before and were doing as good. This year would have been the 4th year out of 5 to miss the playoffs. And when the kids will be ready to compete, added with wingers that will be able to complete, you will have to find your anchor on your D, and a goalie. People have to wish Primeau is the guy. Unless Askarov is our pick.

If the Habs had missed the playoffs, they would have gotten a high pick. Meanwhile, the Laval Rocket were rapidly improving (even without Kotkaniemi) and would have likely had playoff run. I would have paid money to watch those kids some more. And then Kotkaniemi might have made it back for the second or third round of those playoffs.

All prospect pools look good in the moment, that's true. Do you remember that time that the Habs had a top ten pool but then Therrien and Lefebvre helped f*** up each of Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McCarron, Scherbak, De La Rose, Avtsin, Nygren,Ellis, etc? The organization has better coaching now. Are you worried about Poehling getting 4th line minutes in Laval this year? Because I am not. If Poehling fails it will be on him,not because he never gets ice time.

 

[LaP]

It is funny how all of a sudden winger position is considered bad for the Habs. Always used to be the center.

Well we traded Patch and lost Radulov/Vanek. Patch was a very underrated player. You have enough fingers on one hand to count the wingers able to score 35 goals and do 65 points while playing with David Desharnais and Dale ***** ****** Weise. Weise was a 4th liner and DD a 3rd liner. We had to trade Patch (getting old and not happy) and it was a good trade but obviously it created a hole on the wing.

Our wings right now are so small. It's one of the first problem MB must address along the left side of the defense. It has become a higher priority than center. At center i would wait to see how Suzuki and JK develop before doing anything. The potential is there.

 

[DAChampion]

we won't be able to blame Sylvain Lefebvre.....

No -- we'll be assigning partial credit to Joel Bouchard as more and more of the prospects progress.

 

[Miller Time]

It is funny how all of a sudden winger position is considered bad for the Habs. Always used to be the center.

What has been consistent for years is the GM's complete inability to upgrade our top 6...

We were 1-2 pieces (I'd argue 1) away when he took over, and through 8 years he's proven utterly incapable of building on that.

 

[The Real Timo]

What has been consistent for years is the GM's complete inability to upgrade our top 6...

We were 1-2 pieces (I'd argue 1) away when he took over, and through 8 years he's proven utterly incapable of building on that.

That may be true, but you can't deny that he won ALL his trades.

 

[1909]

What has been consistent for years is the GM's complete inability to upgrade our top 6...

We were 1-2 pieces (I'd argue 1) away when he took over, and through 8 years he's proven utterly incapable of building on that.

The main weakness was a lack of talented centermen. He adressed it with KK and Suzuki. + Danault... What else do you want.

 

[Toene]

His trades are like B+, his drafting D, and his UFA signings D-
He's below mediocre imo.

 

[Miller Time]

That may be true, but you can't deny that he won ALL his trades.

Yes, any reasonable person could easily point out a number of trades that did not effectively improve the team.

 

[Miller Time]

The main weakness was a lack of talented centermen. He adressed it with KK and Suzuki. + Danault... What else do you want.

Not true at all.

The main issue was a lack of top 6 talent. This remains unaddressed.

 

[1909]

Not true at all.

The main issue was a lack of top 6 talent. This remains unaddressed.

Tatar, Domi, Drouin, Suzuki, KK, Gallagher have all top-six talent.. Two very good second lines.

 

[1909]

His trades are like B+, his drafting D, and his UFA signings D-
He's below mediocre imo.

UFA signing is over rated.

Drafting.... You should point your finger towards Timmins, not MB.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

His trades are like B+, his drafting D, and his UFA signings D-
He's below mediocre imo.

You forgot:

Planning: M-

Vision: Z-

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Not true at all.

The main issue was a lack of top 6 talent. This remains unaddressed.

Not to mention, his lack of direction and foresight created other holes along the way, where we now lack LDs and overall skill on the backend and especially, a solid PMD.