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Marc Bergevin: Draft? Edition (XIV)

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Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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The improvised early draft certainly takes a lot of wind out of MON's sails. I don't care about the maximum 4th OA we could move up towards because I never count on lottery wins. I don't have the cross your fingers and things will work out for the best that Tank aficionados have.

8th OA (80% chance with the improvised return to the old draft system) will get us a good prospect we can be happy with but, not being able to use the draft to make trades (maybe a blockbuster) and perhaps move up from some of our picks takes a lot of possibilities away from MON and definitely makes for a much less exciting draft.

It will be nothing like the Kevin Costner NFL draft film, that's for sure.
 
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Deebs

Deebs

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If the draft proposal they've talked about goes forward, we get completely screwed. We'll have no chance to trade any of our thousand picks for something of use which seems to be something the team was planning on trying to do.
 
Gaylord Q Tinkledink

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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No one will care that much for the lottery process if they do it the other way.

If they have a chance, even top 10 have a chance to be top 3, then you'll have more interest for television and could make the NHL a little money from TSN, Sportsnet, both, unless there's a deal in place already ?.
 
Deebs

Deebs

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WeThreeKings said:
I would love if he was hampered from trading picks for players since the team should be actually rebuilding.
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But the team isn't so that would hinder the club even further. We can't sign all the guys we picked previously as it stands now.
 
The Great Weal

The Great Weal

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WeThreeKings said:
You're right but since he basically refused to trade Petry and Tatar when they were likely worth more at the deadline. I dont think that was ever in the plan
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I was mostly talking about guys like Byron. He did trade Shaw last year surprisingly, he could have done the same with Byron this year. Also, Bergevin pretty much only trades good players before they become UFAs if he plans on trading them, jut like how he did that with Pacioretty.

I also don't want to trade away Tatar. He isn't that old, is productive, and likely won't be that expensive. You trade away Tatar then you got nobody good to play with KK, Suzuki, Caufield, Poehling...etc. Nobody good ever signs here and we can't draft or develop anyone.
 

Scriptor

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WeThreeKings said:
I would love if he was hampered from trading picks for players since the team should be actually rebuilding.
Click to expand...

Really? That's the association you're making? Trading for prospects is rebuilding as well. Trading for players doesn't mean ONLY for 36 yr-old, over-the-hill players. Where's the logic in your statement? I don't see it. Maybe you can illuminate me.

It also goes the other way, with us trading players at the draft for other players and picks, or bundling picks with players for impact upgrades still eligible to help us for ten years if they are young enough, which should be considered part of rebuilding.

Maybe you should explain what rebuilding means to you.
 

Scriptor

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WeThreeKings said:
You're right but since he basically refused to trade Petry and Tatar when they were likely worth more at the deadline. I dont think that was ever in the plan
Click to expand...

In the offseason, Tatar and Petry could be worth more than they would have been at the trade deadline on a sign and trade deal, like with Pacioretty, that everybody was whining about, saying we would now get nothing for him, with the deadline passed, one year only left on his contract and every other GM knowing he was on the outs with MTL.

Funny how that turned out.

MTL may want to re-up Petry for only three or, maximum, four years but, Petry may be looking for a longer term to stay in MTL. However, like Pacioretty did with Vegas, Petry may be willing to accept a four (or even three) year term with a genuine contender while their window is open.

A deal can be worked out that increases Petry's value with only one year left on his contract. MTL can also absorb half the salary in the last year of Petry's current contract to give a contender more flexibility in the first year it has Petry on their team. MTL can also take on a bad contract as part of the deal to increase the return.

In the meantime, a deal can be made with other players than Petry and Tatar. Or, Bergevin could make use of his Cap space like he did when he traded for Armia.

There are many options other than your cut and dry 'it sucks' take on life. It's okay to think things won't turn out but to present every negative scenario you can dream up as the only real possibility is defeatist and disingenuous.

The other options aren't just wishful thinking as Bergevin, even, made such moves in the recent past. In fact, the more impactful deals he has made have come right before or just after the draft.

Taking away that possibility with a different draft system may well be killing his best play.
 
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ZUKI

ZUKI

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I just hate Bettman so much for what he wants to do with the draft .No chance to get Laf is already tough to accept , but adding to that the fact that we won't be able to trade up by dealing picks or player is too much for me. What is the point to scrap the draft with these no move, no trade rules . What does it have to do with the finals if the teams are not in the POFFs anyway ?
 
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Scriptor

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Watch OTT get #1 and #3 and potentially get both Lafrenière and Byfield to team up as a dynamic duo of the future.
 
Kriss E

Kriss E

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Scriptor said:
In the offseason, Tatar and Petry could be worth more than they would have been at the trade deadline on a sign and trade deal, like with Pacioretty, that everybody was whining about, saying we would now get nothing for him, with the deadline passed, one year only left on his contract and every other GM knowing he was on the outs with MTL.

Funny how that turned out.
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Well technically we don't really know what was being offered for Patches during the season. I do agree though, whoever thought he would yield nothing was bonkers.
I thought the little drama around him and Bergevin during preseason was silly and didn't help anything, but never believed he wouldn't bring in a good return.

Scriptor said:
MTL may want to re-up Petry for only three or, maximum, four years but, Petry may be looking for a longer term to stay in MTL. However, like Pacioretty did with Vegas, Petry may be willing to accept a four (or even three) year term with a genuine contender while their window is open.

A deal can be worked out that increases Petry's value with only one year left on his contract. MTL can also absorb half the salary in the last year of Petry's current contract to give a contender more flexibility in the first year it has Petry on their team. MTL can also take on a bad contract as part of the deal to increase the return.
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A lot can happen when we go into hypotheticals. Petry can be part of the future, or not. Comes down to what he'll want.
Scriptor said:
In the meantime, a deal can be made with other players than Petry and Tatar. Or, Bergevin could make use of his Cap space like he did when he traded for Armia.

There are many options other than your cut and dry 'it sucks' take on life. It's okay to think things won't turn out but to present every negative scenario you can dream up as the only real possibility is defeatist and disingenuous.
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I think a lot of Bergevin's moves were great actually, when looked at in a bubble. Danault? Great. Armia? Great. Byron? Great. Fleischmann? Great.
The problem is these are moves that don't really move the needle. You want to make them when you already have a well established strong team, they might give you that extra edge you're missing to finally make it.
Like Washington getting Eller, if they were a mediocre team, that trade wouldn't have helped them a whole lot.
Scriptor said:
The other options aren't just wishful thinking as Bergevin, even, made such moves in the recent past. In fact, the more impactful deals he has made have come right before or just after the draft.

Taking away that possibility with a different draft system may well be killing his best play.
Click to expand...
His impactful moves haven't turned us into a great team though. Weber trade, looking at how terrible PK was playing this year and his injury problems, we definitely come out on the better end of it. But did it make us better? Unfortunately not because Weber was replacing the PK that played in Mtl, not the one that's in NJ. Is Weber really better than Subban of 12-16?? Not really. So for the team, it was actually a lateral move at best.
Bringing Radulov..that's great. Losing him to get Drouin costing us Sergachev? Definitely not good.

Bergevin doesn't seem to have any vision as to what type of team he's trying to build. He's approaching trades from a very individual focus. If every trade made is won..then surely...we'll be better right? Hmm...nope, doesn't quite work like that, so we end up with pure randomness and no identity.
 
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The Great Weal

The Great Weal

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Kriss E said:
Bergevin doesn't seem to have any vision as to what type of team he's trying to build. He's approaching trades from a very individual focus. If every trade made is won..then surely...we'll be better right? Hmm...nope, doesn't quite work like that, so we end up with pure randomness and no identity.
Click to expand...
I think it's best shown with the Subban trade. We had a trade in place including the 4th OA pick which fell apart because Dubois was picked at 3 and the whole plan was to draft him. Instead of continuing to look at trading Subban for young assets, we do the complete opposite. How you don't have a proper direction for one of if not your most valuable is simply beyond me. The exact same thing happened with Pacioretty. Apparently, we had a trade in place to trade him to the Islanders for the 11/12th OA in 2018, and then trade the pick for ROR. That didn't happen because Wahlstrom and Dobson fell to them. In that very same day, Bergevin tried to trade him to the Kings for an unknown package, but we do know it included the 1st since they couldn't get a contract extension done. We can't really say much about this since we don't know what the rest of the package was(heard all sorts of rumours listing Muzzin, Toffoli, JAD as possible names). So we can't really say for sure that he did a complete 180 in direction and went for future assets instead of a vet. However, look at the actual trade that happened. Tatar, Suzuki and a 2nd. Tatar was coming off a terrible year, but I personally thought he could be of value(I expected around 45 points at best, but he's been a 60+ point player for us). There were rumours that McPhee wanted to dump Tatar for anything, but we can't confirm that. The main pieces were always Suzuki+2nd. So once again, Bergevin planned on committing to a playoff direction when he planned on getting ROR but then changed his mind in the exact same way as the Subban trade and got younger assets. His inability to commit to a direction and fix the drafting and development is why the Habs haven't done a damn thing since their ECF run.
 
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