Marc Bergevin: At the End o'da Day

[Runner77]

Request declined.

But tell you what, I'm going to add variety. Henceforth, I'll often be using the term "Bergevin apologists".

That was one of the terms that we used a couple of years ago, in conjunction with "sycophants" and "enablers".

 

[Runner77]

Do we really need to wait 10 years before declaring Bergevin a failure? We've got six years of results to go on and the trend only goes in one direction: downhill. There is no evidence to suggest that this trend will suddenly reverse itself. Four years from now. Ten years from now. A century from now. The verdict will be the same: Failure. Abject and utter failure.

Majority opinion on this forum (as I perceive it) is that Bergevin has had more than enough time to make a difference and shape the team as he saw fit.

Unless he possesses some hidden talent that only manifests itself in a 7th season, I don't know how he's still holding job.

Maybe I don't wanna know.

 

[Belial]

I hope you and Bergevin are right about Domi. I know he will bring energy but I like shooting forwards who can score. This roster is full of pass first type players cause they don't have confidence in their shot. Domi adds to this. But lets see how he does. I would have no problem trying him at center too. Patch/Domi/Gallagher could be a very good line if Domi can play center

Really? Who can actually pass the puck on this team?

We don't have playmakers on this team IMO and Domi will help.

 

[CauZuki]

Majority opinion on this forum (as I perceive it) is that Bergevin has had more than enough time to make a difference and shape the team as he saw fit.

Unless he possesses some hidden talent that only manifests itself in a 7th season, I don't know how he's still holding job.

Maybe I don't wanna know.

This isn't even his final form... (I'm very scared)

 

[CauZuki]

Really? Who can actually pass the puck on this team?

We don't have playmakers on this team IMO and Domi will help.

Playmakers: Drouin/Scherbak/Hudon/Danault (although his offensive talent is limited overall)
Shooters: Pacioretty/Gallagher/Lekhonen/Byron

I wouldn't say we have no playmakers , but it is an area of weakness , especially after the Chucky trade since he has been developping into our best playmaker for a few seasons now...

 

[Runner77]

This isn't even his final form... (I'm very scared)

We'll know when it'll be at our doorstep. Someone will probably blurt out "Wait, there's more!"

 

[Belial]

Bergevin actually ended up at scratch.

You will fully appreciate Bergevin in like 8 years.

 

[CauZuki]

You will fully appreciate Bergevin in like 8 years.

Why, are we getting an even worse GM? Like the many Americans that appreciate Bush today?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Really? Who can actually pass the puck on this team?

We don't have playmakers on this team IMO and Domi will help.

It's changing but there are more play makers vs shooters IMO. Patch, Drouin, Weber are really the only 3 that can pick corners. Gallagher is a shooter but most of his goals are hard work and finding holes. Gallagher can pick corners at times but his shot is not feared.

How many 30 goal scores do we have this year?

Pleky, Hudon, Lehkonen, Domi, DLR, Byron, Shaw, Danault, Mete. Most of these guys will shoot the puck into the goalie chest or try to force a pass in a shooting opportunity IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why are we getting an even worse GM? Like the many Americans that appreciate Bush today?

No, cause the next GM will inherit the current youth group.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Which is what I said in the previous post...

But apparently that's lazy, childish and stupid.

Yes it is childish and juvenile and lazy to use a strawman as you just did.

You laughed at Bryson saying they were on an upward trend. I showed you that they were with proof (the 2013 rise is because of the Gainey years), and instead you make it about something subjective like "vision" and "plan", when that wasn't what we were (you and I and nobody else) talking about, and that is a further display of childishness and laziness.

 

[EdAVSfan]

And who exactly was the GM supposed to trade?

This whole EA sports-It's in the game thing really amuses me...

What?

I don’t even know what you’re asking.

The GMs responsibility is to understand where his team is. YOU have admitted on several occasions that Bergevin’s earlier teams overachieved. Couple that with not having a strong prospect pool partly because of that 4 year drafting period, then it becomes even more imperative for Montreal management to make the right decisions.
By your own admission the team wasn’t good enough. Ok, so what did he do to make it better? Have a better future? Prepare for Stanley cup contention in the future? He simply didn’t.

Whether that’s trade away pacioretty and Plekanec before they reduce their value, or move Subban for a different type of return, hold on to Galchenyuk, or trade him sooner, etc.

So I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Keep your nonsense easports comments to yourself, or add constructively to the conversation.

Otherwise, don’t bother responding.

 

[Belial]

We lack grade A prospects but we have a few fringe ones. We do have a **** load of grade B prospects that will surprise and disappoint. Quantity is our strength and the probability of generating NHL players is working in our favor.

We finally have trade chips!

Playmakers: Drouin/Scherbak/Hudon/Danault (although his offensive talent is limited overall)
Shooters: Pacioretty/Gallagher/Lekhonen/Byron

I wouldn't say we have no playmakers , but it is an area of weakness , especially after the Chucky trade since he has been developping into our best playmaker for a few seasons now...

Nikita is not even sure to make the team my friend...
Hudon can pass the puck but he's not some amazing passer or something...
Danault? Really?

Conclusion? This team lacks playmakers.

Why are we getting an even worse GM? Like the many Americans that appreciate Bush today?

It doesn't matter what GM you'll get, you will just appreciate Bergevin when all these guys that we have an that we drafted are going to make an impact in the NHL.

It's changing but there are more play makers vs shooters IMO. Patch, Drouin, Weber are really the only 3 that can pick corners. Gallagher is a shooter but most of his goals are hard work and finding holes. Gallagher can pick corners but his shot is not feared.

How many 30 goal scores do we have this year?

Again, passing the puck and playmaker are different things,

All those guys out there are able to pass the puck, make a pass, but a playmaker is someone who will find the open guy or just send the puck through skates for literally a tap in goal.

And the only guy that was able to do that on this team last season was Drouin, and now we added Domi and I think Nikita can be that guy also.

Hudon is a good passer but I don't think he's that good. He's like 50/50 Shot/pass.

How many 30 goal scorers are we going to have next season you ask?

Depends on what happens with Max IMO.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

That post starts with the words



And no, that post is not objective at all! The stats are good and all but the conclusion is completely biased.

Good job for the research but it's useless because as I already said he's comparing 15 years of Gainey and 15 years+ of Houle and Savard with 6 years of Bergevin. That just makes no sense.

7 years Houle, 7 years Gainey, 6 years Bergevin... I included for each of them a top 10 of their best PPG acquistions.

Savard less than 3 years, Gauthier also, I included a top 5 for both.

That's not bias or a slant.

Maybe you should read the definition of the word bias. You don't seem to understand it.

There's no cherry picking either. I made a list for each of them in descending order of the players that had the highest PPG in the lists. I did exactly the same thing for each and everyone of them.

It shows what it shows. All the GMs made bad moves, but the one who made the most and strongest acquisitions was Gainey.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

When Gainey resigned Pacioretty looked like a bust and PK was only starting his NHL career.

Man, you don't even know what you're talking about, Bergevin signed Pac when he just had a 33 goal season, and resigned PK when he was about to start his 3rd season, in which he won the Norris, in Bergevin's first season.

Price, PK and Pac were all on the cusp of full bloom when Bergevin came in. 5 years after their draft (7 for Price).

Relatively, players from the 13 draft should be at the same point. We have NONE of PK and Pac's level to bring us back over the hump because Bergevin's drafting has been even worst despite not missing any picks because of a centennial run.

 

[Belial]

7 years Houle, 7 years Gainey, 6 years Bergevin... I included for each of them a top 10 of their best PPG acquistions.

Savard less than 3 years, Gauthier also, I included a top 5 for both.

That's not bias or a slant.

Maybe you should read the definition of the word bias. You don't seem to understand it.

There's no cherry picking either. I made a list for each of them in descending order of the players that had the highest PPG in the lists. I did exactly the same thing for each and everyone of them.

It shows what it shows. All the GMs made bad moves, but the one who made the most and strongest acquisitions was Gainey.

Do you understand that Pacioretty and PK were drafted in 2007 and they both have around 8 seasons under their belt while guys like Domi and Drouin are literally at 0 under your weird comparison?

How about Kotka and Poehling?

 

[417]

Yes it is childish and juvenile and lazy to use a strawman as you just did.

You called me childish for responding to Bryson with laughing emojis, completely ignoring the fact that him and were having a debate going back and forth. Whether it was childish or not is irrelevant, you know how many times i've seen you be childish and use the same response to another poster?

You called me lazy for just having an opinion, completely unprovoked.

You don't agree with me, that's fine...debate it, stop trying to psyco-analyze me. You literally scolded Belial the other day for doing this, now here you are doing the same thing.

You laughed at Bryson saying they were on an upward trend. I showed you that they were with proof (the 2013 rise is because of the Gainey years), and instead you make it about something subjective like "vision" and "plan", when that wasn't what we were (you and I and nobody else) talking about, and that is a further display of childishness and laziness.

Bryson and I have a history...had anyone else made that point, I would of responded differently and challenged their thought process.

So stop trying to be his shining night in armor, he can fight his own battles.

As for the rest of your post...why is it exactly your opinion worth gold and mine, which is an opinion just like yours, "childish & lazy".

I don't agree the Habs were "trending upwards" under Gainey/Gauthier, I don't care how much lipstick you try to put on that pig by attributing totally random and arbitrary value to either Gainey or Gauthier.

The Habs were trending down when Bergevin took over and they're trending down today...don't agree with me, that's fine.

But stop freaking passing judgement on people's personalities...childish & lazy has NOTHING to do with what we're discussing here.

The worse part in all of this...it's not like I completely dismissed the chart you provided, I even asked you a question on whether or not the downwards trend in 2012, which you attributed to Markov's injury & Hamrlik's decline, could of been mitigated by McDonagh's presence.

Which is a FAIR point to ask in response to what you posted.

But you don't like being challenged, it's either bend to your will or you start tossing out things like "childish" and "lazy", like you're above that on here.

Please

 

[Belial]

Man, you don't even know what you're talking about, Bergevin signed Pac when he just had a 33 goal season, and resigned PK when he was about to start his 3rd season, in which he won the Norris, in Bergevin's first season.

Price, PK and Pac were all on the cusp of full bloom when Bergevin came in. 5 years after their draft (7 for Price).

Relatively, players from the 13 draft should be at the same point. We have NONE of PK and Pac's level to bring us back over the hump because Bergevin's drafting has been even worst despite not missing any picks because of a centennial run.

They nailed it in 2007, nobody ever said the contrary but why keep bringing that draft to try and make a point is beyond me...

This is the epitome of cherry picking.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Pacioretty is still a 30+ goal scorer...one bad year doesn't wipe that out, at least not for me
DD just had a 60pt season? Stop
Cole would never score more than 18 goals in any subsequent season, in fact, this specific year 2012-13, he finished with 9 goals
Bourque was a 20 goal scorer? Yeah he was one, 3yrs before being acquired by the Habs and never even came close after. Stop
Plekanec was a 20 goals/55pts center...we'll probably have similar production, give or take, from Drouin playing the same position this year
Gionta was a 20+ goal scorer...so is Gallagher

Significantly better?

Sorry, I don't buy that...certain elements were better, some worse, for both teams.

I'm no way defending or praising DD but he did get 60 pts the season before that. So that's a fact.
Cole was a 30 goal scorer 1 season before that. Of course in hindsight it's easy to say things now but it is what it is.
Bourque score 20+ goals in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 18 in 78 games the 2011-2012 season... in fact he scored 93 goals in 287 games prior to that 2012-13 season... that's a 27 g per season/82 games rate. That's not a 20 goal scorer for you?
Drouin's production should be compared to DD's production, not Plekanec. So we should compared Danault with Plekanec and I'm sorry but Plekanec 6 yr old ago


That top 6 back then had 5 legit 20 goals scorers and a top 6 center coming off a 60 pts season. I'm sorry but we don't have that to start the season. And we don't even know if Pacioretty will start the season with us. We also don't have two good rookies like Galchenyuk and Gallagher to on the third line.

 

[417]

You will fully appreciate Bergevin in like 8 years.

As crazy as this sounds...

I'm reading praise for Pierre Gauthier now.

So that's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[CauZuki]

It doesn't matter what GM you'll get, you will just appreciate Bergevin when all these guys that we have an that we drafted are going to make an impact in the NHL.

Forgive me if I'm not holding my breath...

 

[Belial]

Forgive me if I'm not holding my breath...

You know I don't care, so you do whatever you want to do bud.

 

[417]

I never thought i'd see the day where Pierre Gauthier was getting praised here...

But here we are.

Anything is possible

 

[Belial]

I never thought i'd see the day where Pierre Gauthier was getting praised here...

But here we are.

Anything is possible

You keep ignoring what I told you earlier, the only reason for all these useless/nonsense posts is this deep hate for Bergevin the Evil...

 

[417]

You keep ignoring what I told you earlier, the only reason for all these useless/nonsense posts is this deep hate for Bergevin the Evil...

“We are extremely happy to announce the appointment of Larry Carrière¨re as Assistant General Manager/Player Personnel. Larry brings with him an important background in the NHL in several key areas such as recruitment, player evaluation and player development. He will be a key contributor to our hockey management team”, said Canadiens general manager Pierre Gauthier.