Manitoba Moose 2018-19 Season - Part II

[Gm0ney]

... Nogier is sound in the defensive zone and very smart, but he doesn’t have any offence to his game. Kinda like Mark Stuart in his “prime.”

Charlie Huddy:

 

[Gm0ney]

Berdin is what Pavelec was and need I remind everyone how much Pavelec was hated around here.

Yeah, we only hated Pavelec because of his athleticism and the style of his game.

Pavelec would've been loved around here if his athleticism translated into saves instead of terrible positioning and shitloads of goals-against...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Berdin is what Pavelec was and need I remind everyone how much Pavelec was hated around here.

Pavelec wasn't hated for his style. He was hated because he didn't stop enough pucks. He never had an AHL season as good as the one Berdin is having this year.

Berdin is not what Pavelec was. He may be what Pavelec wished he was.

 

[Atoyot]

Berdin is what Pavelec was and need I remind everyone how much Pavelec was hated around here.

Berdin plays a scrambly style similar to Pavelec. Doesn't mean he's what Pavelec was. I've always said I don't care if the goalie is stopping pucks spinning on his head like a dreidel, so long as he's stopping more pucks than the next guy in line. Pavelec didn't stop pucks.

Counter-point: Berdin is what Tim Thomas and Dominik Hasek was. No, of course he isn't, but it's the same logic used to say he is what Pavelec was.

 

[snowkiddin]

Berdin plays a scrambly style similar to Pavelec. Doesn't mean he's what Pavelec was. I've always said I don't care if the goalie is stopping pucks spinning on his head like a dreidel, so long as he's stopping more pucks than the next guy in line. Pavelec didn't stop pucks.

Counter-point: Berdin is what Tim Thomas and Dominik Hasek was. No, of course he isn't, but it's the same logic used to say he is what Pavelec was.

Berdin reminds me very much of Hasek. I was very young when Hasek was still playing (and he was way past his prime by that time) but the guy was way out of position a lot. Still, he was able to make saves in part due to his incredible athleticism. He’s gone down as one of the greatest goalies in history.

Berdin is obviously not the same as Hasek, but they have a similar STYLE.

 

[Channelcat]

Berdin does look a bit like Pavelec with some big difference, Berdin is a much better puck handler and I think he has better mental acuity. Time will tell.

 

[garret9]

Most people just wanted Pavelec to stop more pucks.

Substance over style.

 

[lomiller1]

Berdin is what Pavelec was and need I remind everyone how much Pavelec was hated around here.

At the same age, with larger equipment, Pavelec ws putting up a 0.911 sv% in the AHL. He was terrible with the puck and in spite of his reputation as an athletic goaltender he was pudgy and never approached the level of athleticism Berdin is showing.


Above all Pavelec had zero hockey sense, and while it remains to be seen what type of hockey sense Berdin has, it couldn’t possibly be worse than Pavelec. It would routinely take Pavelec what seemed like forever to recognise a pass. He’d still be standing there, way out of the net challenge the wrong player when one else was already shooting. On occasion he’d make a spectacular diving save and people would cheer, more often it’d be a tap in and people defend him and say "you can’t blame that on the goaltender" even though most NHL goaltenders would slid across and had a reasonable chance to make a save.

 

[ps241]

At the same age, with larger equipment, Pavelec ws putting up a 0.911 sv% in the AHL. He was terrible with the puck and in spite of his reputation as an athletic goaltender he was pudgy and never approached the level of athleticism Berdin is showing.


Above all Pavelec had zero hockey sense, and while it remains to be seen what type of hockey sense Berdin has, it couldn’t possibly be worse than Pavelec. It would routinely take Pavelec what seemed like forever to recognise a pass. He’d still be standing there, way out of the net challenge the wrong player when one else was already shooting. On occasion he’d make a spectacular diving save and people would cheer, more often it’d be a tap in and people defend him and say "you can’t blame that on the goaltender" even though most NHL goaltenders would slid across and had a reasonable chance to make a save.

100%

Due to his bad positioning he would be forced into the occasional circus save that would thrill his fan base. Couldn’t handle the puck.....crappy rebound control. He burnt off critical years of development because he was not committed to getting better.

Laid back......good looking.....nice guy that should have never been a heavy rotation starter.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah, we only hated Pavelec because of his athleticism and the style of his game.

Pavelec would've been loved around here if his athleticism translated into saves instead of terrible positioning and ****loads of goals-against...

I think the point is that Berdin plays a scrambly style that might work at the AHL level but likely won't translate in the NHL, like Pavelec. Berdin has been more effective in limited time in the AHL than Pavelec was, so he might have more potential. But he's very raw and likely will need to calm his style down to be effective at the NHL level.

 

[Gm0ney]

I think the point is that Berdin plays a scrambly style that might work at the AHL level but likely won't translate in the NHL, like Pavelec. Berdin has been more effective in limited time in the AHL than Pavelec was, so he might have more potential. But he's very raw and likely will need to calm his style down to be effective at the NHL level.

We would've loved a scrambly goalie with a better save percentage...

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

do puck moving goalies have a noticeable impact on how opposing teams play?

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I don't give a f*** how my goalie stops pucks as long as he does lol.

Big and boring is cool but athletic and sometimes out of position works too, as long as he's successful.

He has a lot of developing to do but it's hard not to be impressed with his season.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Pavelec won an AHL championship with the Wolves with a 911 save percentage in the same Division with Corey Crawford(907),and Pekka Rinne(908). That Save percentage put him 17 in the league behind such great future goalies Michael Leighton,Drew MacIntyre and the legend Barry Brust. He also had a 921 save percentage in 24 games in those very same playoffs.

The idea that Pavelec was "bad in the minors too" is just flat out wrong. He was bad in the NHL no doubt but he was very effective AHLer with a ring too prove it

 

[Gm0ney]

do puck moving goalies have a noticeable impact on how opposing teams play?

Bishop was pretty good at disrupting the dump-and-chase game vs. the Jets. Montoya was markedly better than Pavs at handling the puck during his time here and I thought it helped the Jets D out. I think it would help the current D...give Myers a bit of extra time to go through his 2 second check-down list. And Hellebuyck fumbled a few pucks against Vegas that drove a few nails in the Jets' coffin last year in the WCF...

It's not like it's really tracked statistically, so I don't think any analysis has been done. Seems like it's an advantage though.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Pavelec won an AHL championship with the Wolves with a 911 save percentage in the same Division with Corey Crawford(907),and Pekka Rinne(908). That Save percentage put him 17 in the league behind such great future goalies Michael Leighton,Drew MacIntyre and the legend Barry Brust. He also had a 921 save percentage in 24 games in those very same playoffs.

The idea that Pavelec was "bad in the minors too" is just flat out wrong. He was bad in the NHL no doubt but he was very effective AHLer with a ring too prove it

.911 and 17th in the league isn't exactly good. It's mediocre at best. He got hot that playoffs but his AHL career was largely mediocre, in fact Comrie's last 2 seasons are better than anything Pav did in the AHL (aside from his one playoff run), and nobody expects Comrie to be anything in the NHL aside from maybe a back-up. Him getting the run he did as a starter in the NHL was terrible mismanagement.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

.911 and 17th in the league isn't exactly good. It's mediocre at best. He got hot that playoffs but his AHL career was largely mediocre, in fact Comrie's last 2 seasons are better than anything Pav did in the AHL (aside from his one playoff run).

I guess we should just judge all goalies purely by save percentage in the AHL. Tukka Rask was 905 in 45 games that year they should have just dropped him

 

[Gm0ney]

Pavelec won an AHL championship with the Wolves with a 911 save percentage in the same Division with Corey Crawford(907),and Pekka Rinne(908). That Save percentage put him 17 in the league behind such great future goalies Michael Leighton,Drew MacIntyre and the legend Barry Brust. He also had a 921 save percentage in 24 games in those very same playoffs.

The idea that Pavelec was "bad in the minors too" is just flat out wrong. He was bad in the NHL no doubt but he was very effective AHLer with a ring too prove it

I understand why some people were so high on him. When he was playing well, his size and athleticism absolutely turned heads. He just never got a handle on his weaknesses...

Also, I'm not sure about the analytics, but I think "AHL Calder Cup Wins" is a team team stat...

 

[Gm0ney]

I guess we should just judge all goalies purely by save percentage in the AHL. Tukka Rask was 905 in 45 games that year they should have just dropped him

Yes, this is what everyone is saying, Joe...

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I guess we should just judge all goalies purely by save percentage in the AHL. Tukka Rask was 905 in 45 games that year they should have just dropped him

Oh so you were a big fan of his athletic out of position style you must love Berdin then.

Even if you were to judge him on more than just save percentage, the only thing he had going for him was athleticism. Bad positioning, bad rebound control and not great AHL stats don't usually get you chance after chance of being an NHL starter but hey if you want to make Comrie your starter go ahead.

Save percentage isn't perfect but it's the best stat for AHL goalies out there unless your watching every goalie or tracking other stats that the AHL isn't.

 

[Jimby]

I don't think I have seen Berdin do the Pavelec Porpoise. So, nothing like Pavelec.

 

[lomiller1]

I guess we should just judge all goalies purely by save percentage in the AHL. Tukka Rask was 905 in 45 games that year they should have just dropped him

Some players continue to develop after mediocre beginnings, others don’t. Pavelec did not, and his failure to do so tells us nothing about any other player.

 

[FonRiesen]

I understand why some people were so high on him. When he was playing well, his size and athleticism absolutely turned heads. He just never got a handle on his weaknesses...

Also, I'm not sure about the analytics, but I think "AHL Calder Cup Wins" is a team team stat...

Yup, it was the Chicago Wolves that won the Calder, not Pavs. Even poor goalies go on hot streaks, and if you get real lucky and have a solid team, you can overcome a suboptimal goalie. But every good team would rather have a better, more consistent goalie that they don't have to overcome.

Please just let the Pavs chapter die in peace...

 

[CorgisPer60]

Some players continue to develop after mediocre beginnings, others don’t. Pavelec did not, and his failure to do so tells us nothing about any other player.

Pretty much. Every time I think of Comrie and his current trajectory, I think of the other two goalies that were intrinsically related to him: Tristan Jarry, and Just Winz. That's why I'm fully on board with enjoying the ride that Mikhail berdin has, while also pumping the brakes and waiting to see how he develops. He has a frenetic, scrambly, athletic Style. This will get exposed in the NHL unless he learns to control his positioning better. We have no idea what his work ethic is like, so while the Pavelec comparisons are easy to make, we just really don't know.

All we know is there's no other goalie in the system that has a chance of being better than Bucky right now, so the Jets have the luxury of time to find this out.

 

[mazmin]

Lots of Berdin talk! He seems promising considering his draft position. Seems better than Comrie at the same age.

With the Moose being so hot, can they make a run for the Calder?