Managerial Thread IV

[Evilo]

But Spurs probably had the weakest team in all of that.

What PSG needs is someone who can relate to Paris and to the players and Poch can do both.
They also need someone who has an offensive idea other than "give the ball to Ney or Mbappe".
Finally, they need someone who is liked enough to be respected and wanted by the high profile players.

He ticks all the boxes IMO.

 

[Havre]

Clearly the weakest when playing the other top 6 (or almost).

I don't know how you make Spurs to be the weakest when Liverpool ended up 8, 4 and 4th from 2015. Utd was consistently below Spurs except when Mourinho-god took over etc.

I loved Pochettino back in 2016/17, but not sure how you can say he "ticks all the boxes".

Speaking French (I assume he does) and being a likeable guy is a good start. And he doesn't have to be more than average to win the league. The CL is basically a couple of difficult match ups for a team like PSG. It could work. Of course it could. I also see why PSG are going with Pochettino, but it is quite obvious he has some big weaknesses he will need to improve on (he is reasonably young - so that could also happen).

 

[HajdukSplit]

Bo Svensson is the new Mainz manager. He finished his playing career there and spent most of his coaching career at the youth ranks there. He was most recently the manager of Liefering (Red Bull Salzburg’s farmer team)

 

[Evilo]

Clearly the weakest when playing the other top 6 (or almost).

I don't know how you make Spurs to be the weakest when Liverpool ended up 8, 4 and 4th from 2015. Utd was consistently below Spurs except when Mourinho-god took over etc..

Well, you're answering your own questions.
If Poch made them better, maybe it wasn't due to the quality of the roster but of the coaching?
I'd say Spurs roster was rarely top 4 and yet he consistently reached it.

 

[cgf]

Not surprised. Chelsea have been very disappointing whenever I've caught them and he was still using Kai as a midfielder.

 

[KlausJopling]

Not surprised. Chelsea have been very disappointing whenever I've caught them and he was still using Kai as a midfielder.

As someone who never watched Werner or Havertz before this year. What lineup would you use for Chelsea to get these two in their best positions. (is it even possible or is this really Chelsea buying Werner and Havertz with no place to play them with their other players)

 

[Havre]

Well, you're answering your own questions.
If Poch made them better, maybe it wasn't due to the quality of the roster but of the coaching?
I'd say Spurs roster was rarely top 4 and yet he consistently reached it.

Not sure what is so difficult to understand.

I have praised Pochettino a lot. I think you will even find posts on here me arguing he was just as good as Klopp. I'm not saying Pochettino hasn't got ability. But as you have seen I have described what kind of manager Pochettino is (or I think he is). And what kind of teams he has created (at least in England). Those qualities are not necessarily the ones that would bring PSG to the top. Obviously you are absolutely free to disagree with that assessment, and I would read any criticism of that assessment with interest - other than none substantiated statements like "he ticks all the boxes".

Pochettino made Spurs a unit that would beat most teams with effort. That took a top 6, but not proper contender to top 4. And it worked for as long as the players accepted to play the demanding kind of football Pochettino likes to play. Will it work as well for a team that isn't necessarily a team that will run more than the opposition game after game? Will it work for a team which basically play a handful of important matches every year? If you manage PSG you are evaluated on what happens in the QFs in the CL. If you manage Spurs you are doing well if you can beat Burnley away. PSG is just expected to beat "Burnley" away.

 

[cgf]

As someone who never watched Werner or Havertz before this year. What lineup would you use for Chelsea to get these two in their best positions. (is it even possible or is this really Chelsea buying Werner and Havertz with no place to play them with their other players)

What Lampard has done is understandable, though uninspired...especially since both Timo & Kai are still adapting to the EPL's physicality/spacing and Kai's skillset is so easily plopped into whatever role you need...and on paper, it looks similar to Leverkusen's starting lineup from last season.

But Kai hit a new level when the introduction of Wirtz on the wing allowed him to push forward, with Wirtz tucking in behind him to join the midfielders & take over Kai's creative midfield role...while Volland + a direct winger (Diaby, Bailey or Bellarabi) made runs into the wide areas to pull defenders out of Havertz' way or in behind to take advantage when Havertz drew the defenders to himself.

So with the ball their nominal:

Diaby/Bailey - Volland - Wirtz
Amiri* - Havertz
Baumgartner*
Sinkgraven - Tapsoba - S. Bender - L. Bender​

shape morphed into something that looked more like:

Diaby/Bailey - Havertz - Volland
Amiri* - Wirtz
Baumgartner*
Sinkgraven - Tapsoba - S. Bender - L. Bender

*Demirbay/Arranguiz
​

So I'd try Ziyech in the Wirtz role, having him tuck in & playing almost like a traditional #10 with the ball...which I think might allow him to make more of an impact as well...while freeing Havertz to push further forward; with Werner & Pulisic making runs off of him. Creating something that looked like this in attack:

Pulisic - Havertz - Werner
Mount - Ziyech
Kante
Chilwell - Silva - Zouma - James​

The biggest difference between that shape and the way Leverkusen played would be the FBs; as Sinkgraven & Bender were very defensive fullbacks who stayed back because they had struggled to find the right balance before replacing the more attacking FBs that they started the season playing.

But their midfield didn't have a Kante to anchor it...and even though Amiri/Demirbay are capable of matching Mount with the ball at their feet -- Amiri moreso than Demirbay, but both are nifty players -- neither is even close to as good of a presser/ball-winner. So I don't think giving your FBs more license to push forward would undermine the shape...especially since it's hard to be as dumb about it as Wendell & Weiser were


Werner is a little different, as he thrived in a striking partnership with Poulsen and Poulsen is a very unique #9. But I don't see any reason why he couldn't adapt to the role Volland filled for Leverkusen with just as much success. He has the skillset for it (even if he's not as beefy lol) and it's not that different from what he was doing for Leipzig, just more off-ball.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

At PSG you're not just expected to beat your L1 competition with ease and get far in the CL, you're expected to do it playing a style featuring plenty of 'les beaux gestes du football'.

 

[Havre]

At PSG you're not just expected to beat your L1 competition with ease and get far in the CL, you're expected to do it playing a style featuring plenty of 'les beaux gestes du football'.

Which Pochettino did in at least the spring 0f 2017. Spurs were the highest scoring team in the league that year and I have never before or after just felt that the team could score a goal at any point. A bit like Liverpool last year - actually scored more goals in 16/17 than Liverpool did in 19/20 (1 goal - and not suggesting Spurs overall were better that year than Liverpool last year of course).

Before and after that season I would say nothing special in terms of beautiful football. That isn't criticism of what Pochettino did before and after 16/17. Spurs still played a lot of good football. And overall the team was a lot better than under for example Redknapp, but I would argue Redknapp wanted the team to play a more "beautiful" style than Pochettino.

Pochettino isn't as extreme as Mourinho, but he is definitely willing to sacrifice some offense for defensive stability. Quite a few times Spurs played Wanyama - Dier in midfield. Hardly mouth watering if you want to dominate teams with possession and passing.

 

[YNWA14]

Liverpool weren't really an offensive juggernaut last year though. They got by a lot of the time because of their defence and the insane run that Gomez/van Dijk/Alisson had together before injuries started piling up. They were better offensively in 18/19, and that was the best version of Liverpool in general.

 

[Evilo]

Not sure what is so difficult to understand.

I have praised Pochettino a lot. I think you will even find posts on here me arguing he was just as good as Klopp. I'm not saying Pochettino hasn't got ability. But as you have seen I have described what kind of manager Pochettino is (or I think he is). And what kind of teams he has created (at least in England). Those qualities are not necessarily the ones that would bring PSG to the top. Obviously you are absolutely free to disagree with that assessment, and I would read any criticism of that assessment with interest - other than none substantiated statements like "he ticks all the boxes".

Pochettino made Spurs a unit that would beat most teams with effort. That took a top 6, but not proper contender to top 4. And it worked for as long as the players accepted to play the demanding kind of football Pochettino likes to play. Will it work as well for a team that isn't necessarily a team that will run more than the opposition game after game? Will it work for a team which basically play a handful of important matches every year? If you manage PSG you are evaluated on what happens in the QFs in the CL. If you manage Spurs you are doing well if you can beat Burnley away. PSG is just expected to beat "Burnley" away.

I'm not sure what you don't understand.
I have no idea if Poch will work out, but I did explain how IMO he ticked all the boxes. Scroll up if you want.
Now, maybe I'll change my tune in a month or two, but for now I think he's one of the best possible coaches for the job.

 

[Havre]

I agree, but it still felt like Liverpool were going to win "every" match - without scoring 100+ goals like City have done at their best. I don't see Pochettino being a 100+ goals coach (few are of course - you need both the philosophy and the players for that).

 

[S E P H]

I see Poch doing great at Paris tbh.

We'll have to see. I think he can do great with those players and their budget no doubt, but I also think his teams can get into consistently bad forms and he doesn't really have the tactics nor plan to get them out of them.

 

[Evilo]

Finally a coach with style ambition. About f***ing time !

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Finally a coach with style ambition. About f***ing time !

PSG are so stupid lool.... imagine picking him instead of Setein.

 

[Evilo]

 

[HajdukSplit]

Bilic goes to China and is new manager of Beijing Guoan

 

[Havre]

I don't want to sound like someone always criticizing Pochettino. Will always love him for the extremely good job he did with Spurs for several years. And if he came back 10 years from now I would most likely be thrilled. But not sure if stating the obvious is of much relevance. He is clever enough to understand what is required at PSG. Mourinho might be too stubborn to be "stating the obvious" at times (he seems to want to say the opposite just for the sake of it at times), but most others are rather good at giving a good impression early on when hired. Christian Gross being the exception

 

[Evilo]

Well, neither Ancelotti, Blanc, Emery and Tuchel were smart enough then.

 

[Havre]

I can only take your word for it. Emery yes, but I'm not sure if I see Pochettino naturally playing with more "style" than the others. Certainly not Blanc.

 

[Evilo]

I also don't think he'll reach the heights (in terms of playing style) of Blanc, but at least he said the right thing.

 

[Gecklund]

 

[East Coast Bias]

Nice. God bless Beckham.

Now all the United boys will be itching to get to Miami instead of all auditioning for the United job (once Ole leaves)

 

[Gecklund]

Nice. God bless Beckham.

Now all the United boys will be itching to get to Miami instead of all auditioning for the United job (once Ole leaves)

I thought Neville did a pretty good job and Ole hasn’t been bad.