Managerial Thread IV

[Blender]

Can you see it coming?
I give it 2 to 3 weeks before he's signed.
He's not a bad coach, he has some very good pressing schemes.
But he has absolutely no offensive idea when his team is not playing counter attacking football.
He has more authority than Emery, but other than that, they're very similar.

And just like Arteta, don't invest into the players he wants. Kehrer, Gueye, Diallo, all were busts considering their prices. PSG has been very very good on the transfer market in their 10+ years, but most of the bad deals they made were for players Tuchel wanted. And he whined in the media until he got his useless toys.
And those toys were bought on the back of selling promising youngsters he didn't play (see Diaby and others).

Counter attacking football seems like the perfect level for current Arsenal.

 

[Evilo]

Counter attacking football seems like the perfect level for current Arsenal.

Counter attack has nothing to do with "level". Guy Roux made a small village a european cup semi finalist and a double league/cup playing counter attacking football. He had Laurent Blanc as CB, and I don't think any PL defenseman has had the career of Laurent Blanc.

I think it's quite clear Arsenal isn't playing counter attacking football against most teams. Quite the contrary, they can't seem to break down any defense, especially regrouped defense.

I know some people here try to seize any opportunity to bad mouth other teams, but this post makes zero sense.
At this rate, some of you guy will turn me into an Arsenal supporter given the low quality of those attacks.

 

[Blender]

Counter attack has nothing to do with "level". Guy Roux made a small village a european cup semi finalist and a double league/cup playing counter attacking football. He had Laurent Blanc as CB, and I don't think any PL defenseman has had the career of Laurent Blanc.

I think it's quite clear Arsenal isn't playing counter attacking football against most teams. Quite the contrary, they can't seem to break down any defense, especially regrouped defense.

I know some people here try to seize any opportunity to bad mouth other teams, but this post makes zero sense.
At this rate, some of you guy will turn me into an Arsenal supporter given the low quality of those attacks.

Counter attacking is usually deployed by teams that have less quality and can't play a quick passing possession system. That's not a universal rule as even high talent teams can use counter attacking tactics, and most big teams counter press and counter attack of course. I know Arsenal tries to play a possession system, and they are dreadful with it. In fact I think they should be counter attacking based on the questionable quality of their defense and midfield and the fantastic physical abilities of their attacking players, instead they play a system that neutralizes their strengths and highlights their weaknesses.

It's not a "low quality attack" on Arsenal, it's a valid criticism of them being a mess with an identity that does not match their squad.

 

[S E P H]

PSG just fired Tuchel lol

Welcome to Arsenal our next manager; Mediocrity since 2008.

 

[bluesfan94]

And just like Arteta, don't invest into the players he wants.

I think it's a little too soon to say this. He's had two windows and most of his buys look pretty decent.

 

[bluesfan94]

*SIGH*

He hinted recently he was fed up with waiting for phone calls.

Well damn

 

[Evilo]

I think it's a little too soon to say this. He's had two windows and most of his buys look pretty decent.

Which? Willian?
He'd rather play some awful vets than good youngsters.

 

[bluesfan94]

Which? Willian?
He'd rather play some awful vets than good youngsters.

Gabriel, Partey, Mari, Cedric have all put in a good shift.

I get it, he doesn't play Saliba. He could be invincible this year and you'd still hate him for that. Which, don't get me wrong, is a fair criticism. But it's not like he's made that many bad buys.

Even Willian, being the worst acquisition, was a free

 

[cgf]

Would Tuchel want to go to Arsenal? Feels like he could land a much better gig, even if it means waiting a bit.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I wouldn't mind Tuchel doing an interim job with Dortmund for this season that could extend to upcoming seasons, depending on how we do signing our three transfer targets at manager.

But thats probably not realistic, considering I don't think Watzke would swallow his pride to allow that to happen.

 

[Burner Account]

Would Tuchel want to go to Arsenal? Feels like he could land a much better gig, even if it means waiting a bit.

I obviously don’t know the man but I would think Arsenal committing to giving Tuchel 3-4 years would make it pretty appealing.

 

[Burner Account]

Do we think Tuchel’s handling of the Basaksehir incident was one of the nails in his coffin? At least in the dressing room.

 

[Evilo]

Gabriel, Partey, Mari, Cedric have all put in a good shift.

I get it, he doesn't play Saliba. He could be invincible this year and you'd still hate him for that. Which, don't get me wrong, is a fair criticism. But it's not like he's made that many bad buys.

Even Willian, being the worst acquisition, was a free

Come on !
Mari barely plays, Cedric and Partey as well. To consider them sucess is quite something. LOL.
If Arteta was producing, I wouldn't say a word about his transfers. But at this point, it's laughable that anyone, even worse a Gunners fan, manages to defend him.

 

[Evilo]

Do we think Tuchel’s handling of the Basaksehir incident was one of the nails in his coffin? At least in the dressing room.

Yes. The fact he whined and pressured his players to go back on the pitch was a breaking point for many players.
But really, I think his interview yesterday was the final straw.
When he whined in the press a month ago, Leonardo made it clear : "I don't like it, the club doesn't like it. If you're not happy, you don't have to stay".
Well yesterday he managed to whine AGAIN in german newspapers. And when asked about him after the game, he said it wasn't supposed to be written (like LOL). He was fired immediately after that press conference. Leonardo had a talk with him when he left the conference room and let him know he was gone.

 

[bluesfan94]

Come on !
Mari barely plays, Cedric and Partey as well. To consider them sucess is quite something. LOL.
If Arteta was producing, I wouldn't say a word about his transfers. But at this point, it's laughable that anyone, even worse a Gunners fan, manages to defend him.

Mari was starting until he got hurt. Partey was starting until he got hurt. Cedric obviously was brought in as a backup and has put in a shift.

I’m not defending his tactical nous but to talk about his transfers is pretty silly.

 

[AB13]

To me there are several possibilities :
- Pochettino : former player, free, nice football, but zero trophy for a club that's targeting winning every competition
- Allegri : Leo loves his italian coaches, guy overachieved with Juve in the CL but is boring to watch.

Allegri really isn’t that boring to watch
He is given a ”defensive” label but that isn’t really fair. Allegri likes:
- Progresssive passing from DM
- CMs getting forward
- Lots of width, passing & attacking.
- Passing through middle
- Positional interchanges
- Overloads

 

[AB13]

Would Tuchel want to go to Arsenal? Feels like he could land a much better gig, even if it means waiting a bit.

The next Arsenal job is basically the ideal job for any manager in world football. Bunch of young talent, most of the older guys leaving very shortly on expiring contracts, and the smallest possible expectations. You just have to get us top 6 to be secure with this board and litteraly anyone half-decent is guaranteed doing better than Arteta by a huge margin which would look great on their CV and get them massive hype. Many players with high end talent that could be top class under a proper manager.

I really, really don’t want to consider Tuchel though.​

 

[cgf]

The next Arsenal job is basically the ideal job for any manager in world football. Bunch of young talent, most of the older guys leaving very shortly on expiring contracts, and the smallest possible expectations. You just have to get us top 6 to be secure with this board and litteraly anyone half-decent is guaranteed doing better than Arteta by a huge margin which would look great on their CV and get them massive hype. Many players with high end talent that could be top class under a proper manager.

I really, really don’t want to consider Tuchel though.​

And unrealistic expectations like that are why managers with better options will be wise to avoid the arsenal gig.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What would be the reaction from fans if Arsenal finished 14th playing mostly younger players with a complete rebuild that got rid of veteran players like Aubamyeang, Lacazette, Ceballos, Pepe, Leno, Bellerin? And then maybe the season after that was 10th and after that could be 6th?

Would the fans be okay trying to build around Tierney, Gabriel, Guenduozi, Martinelli, Saka, Saliba, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah, Balogun, Azeez without any real immediate success for 2-3 seasons? Arsenal has a pretty good academy, and if they wanted to build around these players they could probably have a pretty good team with these young players leading the way, but if any measure of instant success is important, I don't know why any good coach would want the job.

As its currently constituted, you are forced to get some measure of immediate results with a team that has no identity. It's a mixture of a few good veterans, a few younger players who contribute, and a bunch of mediocrity and underachievers alongside them that clearly aren't the quality of player needed to be a good team. You also get considerably less transfer funds than the other teams expected to finish in the European spots. I don't see any real recipe to a top 4 place in the next few seasons with the current mix of players, and unless they start pumping in a lot of money to buy new players, it probably requires a full rebuild where they have a few really bad seasons.

 

[bluesfan94]

What would be the reaction from fans if Arsenal finished 14th playing mostly younger players with a complete rebuild that got rid of veteran players like Aubamyeang, Lacazette, Ceballos, Pepe, Leno, Bellerin? And then maybe the season after that was 10th and after that could be 6th?

Would the fans be okay trying to build around Tierney, Gabriel, Guenduozi, Martinelli, Saka, Saliba, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah, Balogun, Azeez without any real immediate success for 2-3 seasons? Arsenal has a pretty good academy, and if they wanted to build around these players they could probably have a pretty good team with these young players leading the way, but if any measure of instant success is important, I don't know why any good coach would want the job.

As its currently constituted, you are forced to get some measure of immediate results with a team that has no identity. It's a mixture of a few good veterans, a few younger players who contribute, and a bunch of mediocrity and underachievers alongside them that clearly aren't the quality of player needed to be a good team. You also get considerably less transfer funds than the other teams expected to finish in the European spots. I don't see any real recipe to a top 4 place in the next few seasons with the current mix of players, and unless they start pumping in a lot of money to buy new players, it probably requires a full rebuild where they have a few really bad seasons.

I'd be fine with it but Pepe and Bellerin are 25 and Ceballos is 24. Not exactly veteran. I wouldn't sell Leno either just because we don't have a goalie in line yet. Hein could be there but isn't quite ready yet.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Ceballos is a scrub. I don’t think he can start for a top team.

 

[PeteWorrell]

What would be the reaction from fans if Arsenal finished 14th playing mostly younger players with a complete rebuild that got rid of veteran players like Aubamyeang, Lacazette, Ceballos, Pepe, Leno, Bellerin? And then maybe the season after that was 10th and after that could be 6th?

Would the fans be okay trying to build around Tierney, Gabriel, Guenduozi, Martinelli, Saka, Saliba, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah, Balogun, Azeez without any real immediate success for 2-3 seasons? Arsenal has a pretty good academy, and if they wanted to build around these players they could probably have a pretty good team with these young players leading the way, but if any measure of instant success is important, I don't know why any good coach would want the job.

As its currently constituted, you are forced to get some measure of immediate results with a team that has no identity. It's a mixture of a few good veterans, a few younger players who contribute, and a bunch of mediocrity and underachievers alongside them that clearly aren't the quality of player needed to be a good team. You also get considerably less transfer funds than the other teams expected to finish in the European spots. I don't see any real recipe to a top 4 place in the next few seasons with the current mix of players, and unless they start pumping in a lot of money to buy new players, it probably requires a full rebuild where they have a few really bad seasons.

Arsenal needs to follow the Liverpool model that gives chances to academy products while also scouting and recruiting the right players without using their entire transfer budget on one player. Paying a club record fee for Nicolas Pépé who has struggled to fit under two managers while Liverpool paid much less for Diogo Jota who hit the ground running is a glaring example of that. Not signing average or mediocre veterans to long contracts and/or high wages because they are recognizable name also needs to stop. The Willian signing was a disaster waiting to happen and sure enough it did.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

From what I gather Leonardo never got on with Tuchel. Probably meant he was always going on the chopping block the moment they hit any obstacles. I think someone like Tuchel who is a bit of a strong-headed, closed-off personality wasn't a good fit for the French or the Arab owners anyway.

 

[AB13]

What would be the reaction from fans if Arsenal finished 14th playing mostly younger players with a complete rebuild that got rid of veteran players like Aubamyeang, Lacazette, Ceballos, Pepe, Leno, Bellerin? And then maybe the season after that was 10th and after that could be 6th?

Would the fans be okay trying to build around Tierney, Gabriel, Guenduozi, Martinelli, Saka, Saliba, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah, Balogun, Azeez without any real immediate success for 2-3 seasons? Arsenal has a pretty good academy, and if they wanted to build around these players they could probably have a pretty good team with these young players leading the way, but if any measure of instant success is important, I don't know why any good coach would want the job.

As its currently constituted, you are forced to get some measure of immediate results with a team that has no identity. It's a mixture of a few good veterans, a few younger players who contribute, and a bunch of mediocrity and underachievers alongside them that clearly aren't the quality of player needed to be a good team. You also get considerably less transfer funds than the other teams expected to finish in the European spots. I don't see any real recipe to a top 4 place in the next few seasons with the current mix of players, and unless they start pumping in a lot of money to buy new players, it probably requires a full rebuild where they have a few really bad seasons.

I would be fine with that, but I do think our veteran players can be very good under a good coach. A good manager fixes all of our on field issues and gets us 6th this season, and top 4 the season after, in my opinion. Southampton and Everton have much worse players than the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal but they are still doing much better/ just as good because of coaching. Average players can't fix bad coaching. Good coaching can fix average players.

 

[PeteWorrell]

From what I gather Leonardo never got on with Tuchel. Probably meant he was always going on the chopping block the moment they hit any obstacles. I think someone like Tuchel who is a bit of a strong-headed, closed-off personality wasn't a good fit for the French or the Arab owners anyway.

He has had off-field issues with two clubs now so he might just be the problem.