Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[GranvilleIsland]

They are now sitting at the grown ups table.

They are drunk and trying to fist fight with granny but at least they are now at the grown ups table.

They have until friday to get the dub against granny.

 

[rypper]

Boeser, yes...Garland, no.

Maybe I'm not looking at him the right way but I'm just not seeing it. He's a frustrating player. Always seems to be doing a lot without actually accomplishing anything. Puts a ton of work in, just to get muscled off the puck.

I mean sure when he's doing that he's not being scored on... but he's also not really helping the team win either.

 

[Cancuks]

Miller to the Pens makes too much sense. The Pens have no real choice but to go all in. Miller is a proven commodity and I'm certain he can be a PPG or more player with Crosby or Malkin for a few more seasons. And when they retire he can play center while they rebuild. I don't think the return will be great. Something along the lines of several cap dumps like McGinn/Blueger/Heinen plus a 1st and a prospect like Hallander. Maybe Rathbone is a part of the deal and Smith comes back as both players need a new start.

I think Boeser gets moved in the offseason maybe to Chicago if Minnesota can't find the cap space. Garland probably stays. I'm sure Myers and his cap hit will be sought after by Arizona after his bonus is paid.

 

[F A N]

I don't see the Canucks moving Miller unless they are motivated to dump his contract. Who is going to play 2C with Miller and Horvat gone? The best option on the roster is Beau. It gets real ugly from there.

 

[theguardianII]

I don't see the Canucks moving Miller unless they are motivated to dump his contract. Who is going to play 2C with Miller and Horvat gone? The best option on the roster is Beau. It gets real ugly from there.

That is called "Building" a team. Not trying to win a cup in one year.
With a much better lineup this team failed over and over again, so keep trying? That has a name, it is called insanity.

The expectation of instant gratification can be emotional.

If Beau is the best they have now, what about at the start of next season?

Things are changing quicker than most fans are used to, the bandaid on top of bandaid method didn't work.

8 million a year allows for lots of trades and offering good FA's contracts. As an example only, Dubois, with Miller gone the Canucks could offer him AND Pettersson 11 mil each, BOOM, 2 centers at 26 yrs old, 4 years younger, just an example. But "what if" they did land Bedard, Fantilli or any of the other centers in the top 6 this year or traded for Lafrenière or Wright, not likely but examples.
There will be examples where teams HAVE to make changes and in the US losers don't attract fans.

One other thing to consider, the Bally sports and others going bankrupt and pulling out of the regional telecast market. The cap might go down.

 

[Gurn]

The cap might go down.

Strange how just a couple of months ago; so many people believed the cap was going way up.
" About $4 mill" they said
" "and the year after, it will go up a lot again" they said.

a few people pointed out the folly of counting chickens before they were hatched, but nope "Cap going up, so all those bad deals don't hurt as much" they said.

Now the reality is the cap may go up $1 million for next year, and with the media deal crumbling; no one knows for sure if the cap will go up the year after.

Planning on good luck, to bail you out of trouble, is a foolish thing to do.

 

[andora]

Maybe I'm not looking at him the right way but I'm just not seeing it. He's a frustrating player. Always seems to be doing a lot without actually accomplishing anything. Puts a ton of work in, just to get muscled off the puck.

I mean sure when he's doing that he's not being scored on... but he's also not really helping the team win either.

I agree with you 100% on how he plays and it's a shame because in a lower role like saying number three Winger that is a great trait to have that helps you win because you're supporting provided that you are leading in the game.

The shame is that he's 2 million overpaid for that type of role

 

[Paulinbc]

burp

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Larkin is about to receive an 8X9-ish extension soon, but Miller's contract at 7X8 is too rich?

The day before free-agency Miler's contract will likely have tremendous value.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Larkin is about to receive an 8X9-ish extension soon, but Miller's contract at 7X8 is too rich?

The day before free-agency Miler's contract will likely have tremendous value.

Maybe we should hang on to him then?...Hes a good player.

 

[Diogenes92]

Maybe we should hang on to him then?...Hes a good player.

Too old.

 

[MarkMM]

Maybe we should hang on to him then?...Hes a good player.

I'm not against holding on to him, but it's not so much the player it's whether his contract timeline lines up with our competitive window that would have me considering re-setting the cap structure around a window in 2-3 years. He'll likely be expensive and declining right when we want to be peaking.

 

[rypper]

Larkin is about to receive an 8X9-ish extension soon, but Miller's contract at 7X8 is too rich?

The day before free-agency Miler's contract will likely have tremendous value.

One guy is turning 27 this year, the other is turning 30.

 

[Nucker101]

Maybe we should hang on to him then?...Hes a good player.

That’s the Canuck way of thinking. When a dude has value, we keep him until he has negative value and then desperately try to trade him.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I'm not against holding on to him, but it's not so much the player it's whether his contract timeline lines up with our competitive window that would have me considering re-setting the cap structure around a window in 2-3 years. He'll likely be expensive and declining right when we want to be peaking.

Thats a fair question..how much will he decline.?..Our completive window (the playoffs) is a year or two away...Are we better off without him..?..Who replaces Miller..?..Its not a poor value contract?.

 

[VanJack]

Now that Miller has a seven-year contract extension, does that make him 'less' valuable on the trade market, or 'more"?

My initial thought was that the contract and term made him far less of a tradeable asset. But now I'm not so sure.

Last year the Canucks obviously couldn't get value for Miller because his contract only had one more year to run, and most thought he'd hold out for a big payday.

This year, with his contract status secure, he could be of interest to a team looking to compete here and now--particularly if the Canucks were willing to retain some salary.

Apparently the Pens and Canucks have had serious discussions about him. I suspect other teams are kicking the tires as well. Still a longshot that he moves by Friday. But this summer? Who knows?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That’s the Canuck way of thinking. When a dude has value, we keep him until he has negative value and then desperately try to trade him.

You have to ask yourself if the player can contribute well into his contract...or will he fall off a cliff..?

 

[Nucker101]

You have to ask yourself if the player can contribute well into his contract...or will he fall off a cliff..?

Odds are that he falls off with multiple years left on the contract. We need to avoid more OEL situations even if it stings short term.

People are worried about becoming the Yotes or Hawks, look at all the quality players that teams try to shed for cap reasons. You can easily acquire talent with cap space to avoid becoming the Hawks/Yotes.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Odds are that he falls off with multiple years left on the contract. We need to avoid more OEL situations even if it stings short term.

People are worried about becoming the Yotes or Hawks, look at all the quality players that teams try to shed for cap reasons. You can easily acquire talent with cap space to avoid becoming the Hawks/Yotes.

JTM is a bit of a late bloomer as a player...Rutherford wants to make the playoffs next season, and our chances are better with a quality player like Miller..There's a good argument both ways for keeping/moving Miller.

How much cap space/term would you have to give up to replace a player who had 99 points last season?..Miller is easy to replace..?

 

[Nucker101]

JTM is a bit of a late bloomer as a player...Rutherford wants to make the playoffs next season, and our chances are better with a quality player like Miller..There's a good argument both ways for keeping/moving Miller.

How much cap space/term would you have to give up to replace a player who had 99 points last season?..Miller is easy to replace..?

For me it’s as simple as that I think Miller becomes a bad contract before the Canucks become contenders again

Not everyone agrees with that line of thinking which is fine.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

For me it’s as simple as that I think Miller becomes a bad contract before the Canucks become contenders again

Not everyone agrees with that line of thinking which is fine.

Yeah,its all good.

Realistically, I guess it comes down to how far off one perceives this team as being an annual playoff team.

 

[F A N]

That is called "Building" a team. Not trying to win a cup in one year.
With a much better lineup this team failed over and over again, so keep trying? That has a name, it is called insanity.

The expectation of instant gratification can be emotional.

If Beau is the best they have now, what about at the start of next season?

Things are changing quicker than most fans are used to, the bandaid on top of bandaid method didn't work.

8 million a year allows for lots of trades and offering good FA's contracts. As an example only, Dubois, with Miller gone the Canucks could offer him AND Pettersson 11 mil each, BOOM, 2 centers at 26 yrs old, 4 years younger, just an example. But "what if" they did land Bedard, Fantilli or any of the other centers in the top 6 this year or traded for Lafrenière or Wright, not likely but examples.
There will be examples where teams HAVE to make changes and in the US losers don't attract fans.

One other thing to consider, the Bally sports and others going bankrupt and pulling out of the regional telecast market. The cap might go down.

I don’t see how the Canucks can afford to offer Dubois and Petey $11M but that’s the point.

There’s really not much to argue here. This management team only recently extended him. They also tried to keep Horvat. Until I see evidence otherwise, we aren’t rebuilding. Making the most out of your situation and making standard trades isn’t a signal that the team is rebuilding.

 

[Hodgy]

One guy is turning 27 this year, the other is turning 30.

100%. Teams are much smarter than they initially were when the league implemented the 8 year contract. Smart teams now realize that all top players will require a 7 or 8 year contract in order to acquire or retain. So the key now is ensuring that you acquire or structure your contracts so that you are signing players to these 7-8 year contracts when they are in their mid twenties. This has a massive affect on the value of the long term contract since it means the last few years or so are played while the player is in his early thirties opposed to late thirties. The trickle down affect is that top players whose contracts will expire when they are in their late 20s or early 30s are worth way less than previously thought because team's know that the "value" of the long term contract they will require isn't great. This is why Miller's value was so lower, or why Huberdeau's value was so low.

 

[Ita]

One guy is turning 27 this year, the other is turning 30.

Larkin is 2.5 years younger but his new contract is also a year longer.

With that said, I still think Miller should be traded because he doesn't fit our window.

 

[credulous]

detroit is also ascendant. they have a pretty clean cap sheet and a ton of high quality prospects and young players to integrate into the lineup. there's no real reason to expect they won't be competitive over the next 4-5 years