Management Thread. For a Few Dollars More: Gunslinger Edition, Pt II

[4Twenty]

Also Weisbrod doesn’t get credit because any credibility he had flew out the window when he threw a tantrum that the team selected Pettersson over Glass. That and what exactly does he do.

Talk about disingenuous comparing a long term scout and the front man at all the drafts for Boston vs Weisbrod who’s record consists of managing an nba team?

So far Weisbrod’s rep has Jankowski = Nieuwendyk, ROR offersheet and what else?

What does he do?

It’s a helluva lot more likely a man who scouted, led a scouting dept, and was AGM and a draft point man, had more to do with Boston’s drafting than Weisbrod here.

Even POM caved on the Benning Boston draft issue, your turn FAN. It doesn’t mean you’re no longer a fan of Benning. It’ll take a long time to lose that card.

 

[canuckking1]

Weisbrod’s time in the NBA wasn’t pretty his Tmac trade might be one of the worst in pro sports. The equivalent of trading Petey for a guy who’s out of the league in a few years.

Tmac’s opinion on Weisbrod is very telling.

"Honestly, as long as John Weisbrod was the GM there was no way, no way I'd step another foot in a Magic uniform. It was just his whole demeanor and the whole way he goes about doing business and doing things. I don't know if I can say this, but I'm gonna say it, 'He's an (expletive)."

 

[iloovRMB]

Tmac had a garbage attitude and never won anything. Weisbrod did the right thing by trading him. He also picked D Howard over Okafor against heavy pressure. You want to cherry pick quotes against Weisbrod but you’ll never show the quotes from the coaches who worked under Weisbrod, who he actually fired, who still give interviews saying he’s a good manager.

None of you guys using this stuff against Weisbrod know what you’re talking about because if you were there at the time you’d know the context of these things which only vindicate Weisbrod.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Ferraro: Fine line between being selfless in front office and trying to outshine everyone else

Q;..."Ray ,our poll question today, who is responsible for Vancouvers success at the draft..Is it Jim Benning ,or Judd Brackett..63% say its Brackett..How do you think JB feels about that?"

Ray:.."Probably not very good..They still had the prospects tournament in Penticton in 2014..I'm walking out of the hotel, and bump into Jim, who said he's off to a meeting to help the scouting staff 'to learn how to scout'
In this discussion, it was instructive to note the the GM (Benning) sets the focus on how, what the Canucks look for, in importance in each player.

At some point, Judd Brackett was hired under these guidelines.."
............................................................

It's very clear what Ray is talking about, .. in 2014 Benning had to instruct the scouts ,on how he wanted them to scout..His way of identifying players..This was precisely one of the reasons he was hired by Linden..

 

[I am toxic]

Brackett was hired by Gillis in 2008.

Ray is clearly mistaken.

It's no surprise that we didn't have good drafting until Linden sided with Brackett and over-ruled Benning to get Petey (documented).

Jim Benning is that bad.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Ray says in the interview that Brackett was hired by Gillis...Ray was referencing the promotion to DOS..

 

[I am toxic]

Ray says in the interview that Brackett was hired by Gillis...Ray was referencing the promotion to DOS..

As I pointed out from the beginning, Ray was mistaken. Brackett was not hired by Benning. Gillis brought in Brackett by hiring him 6 years before Benning showed up.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Even in Bennings time in Boston, their drafting was better than the Canucks ..They nailed 2 out of 3 top 10 picks (Seguin and Hamilton) and also drafted useful players such as Ryan Spooner, Matt Benning and Matt Grzecyk..If Gillis waffled on Horvat, he would have been completely skunked...The aggregate chart demonstrates what the effect of horrible drafting 2007-13 in particular had on the Canucks

 

[timw33]

Article about Leivo today revealed that due to the pandemic US teams weren't an option due to team doctors being unable to inspect his knee recovery in person. So it was CGY or VAN and we let him slip for 875k.

 

[4Twenty]

Ferraro: Fine line between being selfless in front office and trying to outshine everyone else

Q;..."Ray ,our poll question today, who is responsible for Vancouvers success at the draft..Is it Jim Benning ,or Judd Brackett..63% say its Brackett..How do you think JB feels about that?"

Ray:.."Probably not very good..They still had the prospects tournament in Penticton in 2014..I'm walking out of the hotel, and bump into Jim, who said he's off to a meeting to help the scouting staff 'to learn how to scout'
In this discussion, it was instructive to note the the GM (Benning) sets the focus on how, what the Canucks look for, in importance in each player.

At some point, Judd Brackett was hired under these guidelines.."
............................................................

It's very clear what Ray is talking about, .. in 2014 Benning had to instruct the scouts ,on how he wanted them to scout..His way of identifying players..This was precisely one of the reasons he was hired by Linden..

Thanks. I still don’t think this says what you think.

What do you think happens at other teams scouting meetings?

Why do you think Brackett was promoted for falling in line or his own eye for talent?

I agree he was hired to fix the drafting. I have a hard time believing this was some magical systematic way of imparting wisdom on draft picks. More so a what things we want the Canucks to draft. This doesn’t speak to what cantstopbrock was talking about anyways.

Ultimately the success in drafting has come from first round picks.

The drafting to me doesn’t look great compared to the league. It’s a bunch of top top 10 picks. Looks to me like most of the improvements are driven by the top 10 picks. It looks like a continuation of what we started to see in 2012 under Crawford (which still is around mid league).

Hutton and Gaunce is a decent haul.

Horvat is the captain.

People talk about Tryamkin, what separates him from Corrado?

2015 was an outstanding draft class. Boeser being available at 23 isn’t skill. It’s draft class depth. Gaudette looks like a Brackett pick (considering his Northeastern connections).

2016 looks like an absolute bust.

2017 the top pick and what else? The GM got overruled to take the scouts pick.

Basically the improved drafting all seems to stem from where the picks came from and the first draft where Benning is on record as sitting back watching how it worked. He can have Tramkin if he wants. He’s got an nhl career they matches Frankie Corrado currently.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

As I pointed out from the beginning, Ray was mistaken. Brackett was not hired by Benning. Gillis brought in Brackett by hiring him 6 years before Benning showed up.

..and what did Brackett accomplish in the 6 years before Benning arrived...?...

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Tmac had a garbage attitude and never won anything. Weisbrod did the right thing by trading him. He also picked D Howard over Okafor against heavy pressure. You want to cherry pick quotes against Weisbrod but you’ll never show the quotes from the coaches who worked under Weisbrod, who he actually fired, who still give interviews saying he’s a good manager.

None of you guys using this stuff against Weisbrod know what you’re talking about because if you were there at the time you’d know the context of these things which only vindicate Weisbrod.

This is completely false. I already disproved it eons ago (just check my posts). And in every interview, McGrady singled out one person (who works for the Canucks, by the way) who drove him out of Orlando and made him request a trade. So, please, don't rewrite history. I know it is your motto, but not here.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Tmac had a garbage attitude and never won anything. Weisbrod did the right thing by trading him. He also picked D Howard over Okafor against heavy pressure. You want to cherry pick quotes against Weisbrod but you’ll never show the quotes from the coaches who worked under Weisbrod, who he actually fired, who still give interviews saying he’s a good manager.

None of you guys using this stuff against Weisbrod know what you’re talking about because if you were there at the time you’d know the context of these things which only vindicate Weisbrod.

How does Tmac's ability to win anything relate to his ability to assess Weisbrod? (It doesn't.)

Gives us all those positive Weisbrod quotes. Even if they exist, there's a huge difference between a coach and a player speaking out against someone. Coaches are almost always going to speak well of their former bosses. You know, because they like being getting hired elsewhere.

 

[4Twenty]

Even in Bennings time in Boston, their drafting was better than the Canucks ..They nailed 2 out of 3 top 10 picks (Seguin and Hamilton) and also drafted useful players such as Ryan Spooner, Matt Benning and Matt Grzecyk..If Gillis waffled on Horvat, he would have been completely skunked.

Nailed a #2 pick. Incredible. What about the one he didn’t nail? The 7th overall pick with 20 nhl games.

Matt Benning equivalent to Kevin Connauton.

Ben Hutton comparable to Ryan Spooner.

Where does Hodgson fit?

Just look at the Boston classes before and after Benning. Night and day. The one before he arrived: Marchand, Lucic and Kessel and the one after he left: Bjork, Pastrnak, Donato, Heinen.

 

[I am toxic]

..and what did Brackett accomplish in the 6 years before Benning arrived...?...View attachment 377147

Brackett displayed he should be made Director of Amateur Scouting ahead of Delorme and Gradin.

Pretty good for a part-time scout.

Our loss is Minny's gain.

Jim Benning is that bad.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Ferraro: Fine line between being selfless in front office and trying to outshine everyone else

Q;..."Ray ,our poll question today, who is responsible for Vancouvers success at the draft..Is it Jim Benning ,or Judd Brackett..63% say its Brackett..How do you think JB feels about that?"

Ray:.."Probably not very good..They still had the prospects tournament in Penticton in 2014..I'm walking out of the hotel, and bump into Jim, who said he's off to a meeting to help the scouting staff 'to learn how to scout'
In this discussion, it was instructive to note the the GM (Benning) sets the focus on how, what the Canucks look for, in importance in each player.

At some point, Judd Brackett was hired under these guidelines.."
............................................................

It's very clear what Ray is talking about, .. in 2014 Benning had to instruct the scouts ,on how he wanted them to scout..His way of identifying players..This was precisely one of the reasons he was hired by Linden..

Love getting hired for my expertise then told how to do my job.

Benning strikes me as a guy that constantly assumes he's the smartest guy in the room. Dunning Kruger all over the place.

Speaking of, I wouldn't say it's "very clear" what Ray is talking about. Could be perceived in a many different ways.

 

[4Twenty]

..and what did Brackett accomplish in the 6 years before Benning arrived...?...View attachment 377147

Not many top 10 picks to show your ability in those years.

I see we’re in the but drafting phase again.

Why is it Boston couldn’t draft well with Benning’s system and drafted much better before and after his tenure with the club?

 

[4Twenty]

Love getting hired for my expertise then told how to do my job.

Benning strikes me as a guy that constantly assumes he's the smartest guy in the room. Dunning Kruger all over the place.

Speaking of, I wouldn't say it's "very clear" what Ray is talking about. Could be perceived in a many different ways.

That was my interpretation too.

The reason the head scout he promoted is gone is because Jimmy couldn’t handle having a subordinate be the one credited with the Pettersson pick. And Brackett couldn’t work under the guy he had to convince to take him and had to get the president to allow for that autonomy.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Article about Leivo today revealed that due to the pandemic US teams weren't an option due to team doctors being unable to inspect his knee recovery in person. So it was CGY or VAN and we let him slip for 875k.

This isn't true. The Canucks are reported to have offered him a similar contract.

 

[nowhereman]

Even in Bennings time in Boston, their drafting was better than the Canucks ..They nailed 2 out of 3 top 10 picks (Seguin and Hamilton) and also drafted useful players such as Ryan Spooner, Matt Benning and Matt Grzecyk..If Gillis waffled on Horvat, he would have been completely skunked...The aggregate chart demonstrates what the effect of horrible drafting 2007-13 in particular had on the Canucks

View attachment 377148

Well, at least we didn't come in last!

 

[4Twenty]

Well, at least we didn't come in last!

I said the same thing in 2016 when the team Benning tried to improve for the playoffs missed out on last by a hair.

 

[4Twenty]

I honestly feel like the cantstopbrock poster I was chatting to about this whole thing yesterday is someone’s alternate account.

 

[Peen]

I'm more than happy to have this NBA conversation here about Weisbrod.

People who like this regime often assume that those who don't like benning/weisbrod etc. are just sour or haters and not true fans. It's such a stupid assumption and I remember seeing similar stuff on Raptors message boards prior to Ujiri coming on board.

Ujiri and the Raptors built the best front office with diversity of opinion and background. Not some stupid old boys club and they had the understanding of opportunity cost that these guys have never had up until this free agency apparently.

Why would I fanboy one management group but not another of teams I support? Is it possible that it's not just being a hater?!

Weisbrod was a moron in the NBA. Look at the way people spoke of him and how he was thought of on top of the moves themselves.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Love getting hired for my expertise then told how to do my job.

Benning strikes me as a guy that constantly assumes he's the smartest guy in the room. Dunning Kruger all over the place.

Speaking of, I wouldn't say it's "very clear" what Ray is talking about. Could be perceived in a many different ways.

Yes, Brackett was hired to work under Bennings guidelines, obviously the guidelines Brackett had in the previous 6 years in the organization were inept.

One of the reasons Benning was hired was to fix the catastrophe, that was the Canucks drafting..The results speak for themselves.

If you look at the context of what Ray is talking about happening in the fall of 2014..It makes total sense...

 

[bandwagonesque]

I honestly feel like the cantstopbrock poster I was chatting to about this whole thing yesterday is someone’s alternate account.

At this point I think the burner-account accusation toward anyone who contradicts any of several ongoing narratives is just implied and there's no need to even mention it.