Management Thread. For a Few Dollars More: Gunslinger Edition, Pt II

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

He absolutely did not reference disfunction or chaos. Just that Jim was having a meeting with the scouts to target what he wants them to. Certainly nothing about an evaluative process.

plus the time referenced is September 2014. Judd wasn’t promoted until July 2015.

also how much did Linden have to do with it. We get told all the time his mandate controlled the team. Did Trevor factor in here to?

Who has to mention dysfunction and chaos.?..The drafting record 2005-13 speaks for itself.

One of the reasons that Benning was hired was to fix the broken mechanism .that was the Canucks drafting from the previous administration.

 

[4Twenty]

Who has to mention dysfunction and chaos.?..The drafting record 2005-13 speaks for itself.

One of the reasons that Benning was hired was to fix the broken mechanism .that was the Canucks drafting from the previous administration.

The poster you were quoting spoke of Brackett and Benning creating a new evaluative system. What you’re referencing is something different.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

What conclusion do you think we should draw from the fact that during his tenure with the Sabres as Director of Amateur Scouting from 1998 to 2004, Benning presided over what was probably the best sustained period of drafting, particularly in later rounds, of any team in NHL history?

Buffalo Sabres Draft History at hockeydb.com

Different scouting departments. The issue obviously then becomes what influence Benning had on both scouting departments. Like he could have just walked into both jobs with the scouts as-is and made little-to-no changes, and just had a better team in Buffalo than Boston. Or maybe he made a bunch of changes, and they worked in Buffalo and didn't in Boston. Who knows, but that's obviously a huge factor that would explain the difference in results when comparing his time in Buffalo/Boston.

 

[Fatass]

Different scouting departments. The issue obviously then becomes what influence Benning had on both scouting departments. Like he could have just walked into both jobs with the scouts as-is and made little-to-no changes, and just had a better team in Buffalo than Boston. Or maybe he made a bunch of changes, and they worked in Buffalo and didn't in Boston. Who knows, but that's obviously a huge factor that would explain the difference in results when comparing his time in Buffalo/Boston.

Or Benning is a good scout (when he gets many hours in that area) and that’s what he should be doing? Clearly he’s in over his head as a GM.

 

[MS]

He was heavily involved (as you demonstrated)., but was he 'responsible ' for it..?..I'm not convinced..As Chiarellis right hand man, there is just no way he would have had the time to be a DOS and an AGM simultaneously.

I'm not saying he was DOS (and nobody was ever saying Gillis was acting as a DOS, so this is irrelevant in comparing the two). He was heavily involved and overseeing the department, and the lead management guy on the scouting side. Much like here, there was also a Brackett equivalent below him.

And again, it's bizarre that people think he could be GM and totally influencing big changes in the scouting here, but couldn't be doing the much smaller AGM job and totally influencing the scouting in Boston.

From everything we can gather and all the evidence we have, Chiarelli had very little involvement in amateur scouting (again, zero background there whatsoever), and Benning had a high degree of autonomy over the department. Not much different from what we see in Vancouver right now.

 

[MS]

In a nutshell, what we see in the last 15 years from Benning are :

a) a long stretch in Boston where they were the worst drafting team in the NHL.

b) a long stretch in Vancouver when the team has sucked in pretty much all areas aside from the USHL home territory of Judd Brackett and the Pettersson pick that we know Brackett spearheaded and Benning fought against.

In 15 years, Jim Benning has done nothing but fail overseeing NHL scouting staffs outside of work done directly by Judd Brackett. Gillis might not have been great on the amateur scouting side, but Benning is arguably even worse.

 

[Didalee Hed]

HFBenning lol

That’s too good and so god damn appropriate.

I have no clue how so many posters here are so entrenched in their Benning white knighting.

Stockholm syndrome?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Uhm. The radio link you just promoted above talked about Jim wanting to be more involved in the scouting. How come he’s able to GM and scout but not AGM and be the main man in scouting?

Ray: "Hey Jim, you're having lots of meetings these days..?"

Benning: "Yes, I'm going to help the scouting staff learn how we want them to scout"

It's cut and dry, Benning implemented a new system for identifying players..Ray also says that Judd Brackett was hired to operate, under that system.

 

[4Twenty]

Ray: "Hey Jim, you're having lots of meetings these days..?"

Benning: "Yes, I'm going to help the scouting staff learn how we want them to scout"

It's cut and dry, Benning implemented a new system for identifying players..Ray also says that Judd Brackett was hired to operate, under that system.

If you want to credit Benning all power to you.

Ray is explaining normal GM to director process. He’s not reflecting on any specific insight into the Canucks.

This idea Benning imparted some amazing wisdom upon them is cute.

Looks like Brackett didn’t work well within Benning’s confines. Thankfully Linden stepped in where it mattered.

Edit* I was hoping can’t stop Brock would provide the link of this article he’s talking about. A ray Ferraro sound bite of a passing conversation from 6 years ago isn’t that. Nor does it really speak to anything.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If you want to credit Benning all power to you.

Ray is explaining normal GM to director process. He’s not reflecting on any specific insight into the Canucks.

This idea Benning imparted some amazing wisdom upon them is cute.

Looks like Brackett didn’t work well within Benning’s confines. Thankfully Linden stepped in where it mattered.

Edit* I was hoping can’t stop Brock would provide the link of this article he’s talking about. A ray Ferraro sound bite of a passing conversation from 6 years ago isn’t that. Nor does it really speak to anything.

I am crediting (and so is Ray) Benning for implementing a system for identifying players....Ferraro has been as critical on Benning as anybody, and is a legit source, he's not going to 'make it up'...Sorry that it doesn't match up with HF 'conspiracy theories'.

He obviously did impart some wisdom, the results speak for themselves.

 

[4Twenty]

I am crediting (and so is Ray) Benning for implementing a system for identifying players....Ferraro has been as critical on Benning as anybody, and is a legit source, he's not going to 'make it up'...Sorry that it doesn't match up with HF 'conspiracy theories'.

He obviously did impart some wisdom, the results speak for themselves.

Can you grab the select quote out of there that you think means anything.

Surely that isn’t the source of this dysfunction filled chaos that Buddy was on about. Because the poster is mentioning a completely different time frame than you.

not doubting ray as a source. Doubting you using what he said in passing as anything more than a scouting meeting.

How do you know it was systemic not just just “get guys who dig deep and compete”? I’m not sure how you gathered any of the conclusions you’ve made from that interview.

Thankfully the results led to some top 10 picks.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Can you grab the select quote out of there that you think means anything.

Surely that isn’t the source of this dysfunction filled chaos that Buddy was on about. Because the poster is mentioning a completely different time frame than you.

not doubting ray as a source. Doubting you using what he said in passing as anything more than a scouting meeting.

How do you know it was systemic not just just “get guys who dig deep and compete”? I’m not sure how you gathered any of the conclusions you’ve made from that interview.

Thankfully the results led to some top 10 picks.

Your just being blatantly disingenuous right now...Its completely clear what Ray Ferraro is talking about...See ya.

 

[Didalee Hed]

Your just being blatantly disingenuous right now...Its completely clear what Ray Ferraro is talking about...See ya.

If he is being blatantly disingenuous, it’s him responding in kind to the built in sneaky disingenuous nature of hfbenning.

“They pull a knife, you pull a gun”

That’s the Vancouver way!

 

[4Twenty]

Your just being blatantly disingenuous right now...Its completely clear what Ray Ferraro is talking about...See ya.

View attachment 377125

There’s nothing in that interview. Hopefully the actual person referring to an article when Brackett was promoted is linked.

There is nothing not genuine about what I’m saying.

I was expecting some information or at least something pertinent. Benning had a meeting with his scouts. The director of scouting works under the GM....riveting!!!

 

[I am toxic]

Ray is either mistaken, or a poster is making up stuff about what Ray said.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

I can't wait till Benning is fired, we absolutely need a competent GM to take care of this team.

 

[Didalee Hed]

I can't wait till Benning is fired, we absolutely need a competent GM to take care of this team.

Unfortunately he has the owner believing he isn’t a moron.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Unfortunately he has the owner believing he isn’t a moron.

The surprising thing is that Aquilini obviously cares a lot about money, and Benning has literally wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on useless/replacement level players.

 

[F A N]

Different scouting departments. The issue obviously then becomes what influence Benning had on both scouting departments. Like he could have just walked into both jobs with the scouts as-is and made little-to-no changes, and just had a better team in Buffalo than Boston. Or maybe he made a bunch of changes, and they worked in Buffalo and didn't in Boston. Who knows, but that's obviously a huge factor that would explain the difference in results when comparing his time in Buffalo/Boston.

Benning was NOT the Director of Amateur Scouting or GM while in Boston. The Director of Amateur Scouting for Boston was the GM's buddy who was one of the GM's first hire. Posters who are saying Benning was in charge of Boston's drafts have yet to provide any evidence or reports in support. It's merely guilty by association. These same posters won't give Weisbrod credit for Canucks drafts except to criticize the Hughes pick.

Looks like Brackett didn’t work well within Benning’s confines. Thankfully Linden stepped in where it mattered.

Aren't we saying Brackett did a good job based on the Canucks draft record? Brackett clearly did work well "within Benning's confines" if we are saying that the Canucks drafted well during Brackett's tenure as Director of Amateur Scouting for the Canucks.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Ray is either mistaken, or a poster is making up stuff about what Ray said.

Rays not mistaken ..and I'm just merely quoting what he is saying (word for word).....Might have something more to do with you and the rest of the 'echo chamber' not being able to handle the inconvenient truth..?
Starts at 7.10
Ferraro: Fine line between being selfless in front office and trying to outshine everyone else

 

[vanuck]

Everyone here knows Benning won it all in Boston. They didn't need a visual to remember that. Like, it's been well-established since long ago.

But when you feel the need to post an actual picture of him lifting the trophy (at this team's expense no less) for some reason to try and make your point because you can't put it in words alone... what does that even say about the things you put importance on?

Just so, so transparent.

 

[4Twenty]

Rays not mistaken ..and I'm just merely quoting what he is saying (word for word).....Might have something more to do with you and the rest of the 'echo chamber' not being able to handle the inconvenient truth..?
Starts at 7.10
Ferraro: Fine line between being selfless in front office and trying to outshine everyone else

Please actually quote the line or lines you think are important.

I could link a 15 minute interview it doesn’t mean I’m quoting it.

I highly doubt this is the source of the poster who was actually involved in the discussion. Your post tried to pass this 6 year old memory of a passing conversation at young stars in penticton as that source. If it is the source this was a pretty weak support of that narrative. Especially since the dude said Brackett helped develop the system.


What happened in 2016? Thankfully someone overrode the first pick in 2017.

 

[mathonwy]

I agree that he had an influence, but it's still a contaminated sample for me versus the more pure sample of his Buffalo days, which is very good.


You're ignoring all the excellent signings and trades that Boston made with Benning as advising AGM, ones that led to him becoming a Stanley Cup champion.

This moron literally won the cup at OUR EXPENSE and you post this drek here as if it's something to be proud of.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Benning was NOT the Director of Amateur Scouting or GM while in Boston. The Director of Amateur Scouting for Boston was the GM's buddy who was one of the GM's first hire. Posters who are saying Benning was in charge of Boston's drafts have yet to provide any evidence or reports in support. It's merely guilty by association. These same posters won't give Weisbrod credit for Canucks drafts except to criticize the Hughes pick.

Well, duh.
He came into the Boston job with 6 years of head scout experience with 13 years of scouting experience total. He had no other executive experience. If you don't think he had influence or control over the scouts from the top down and some influence on their picks, then I guess common sense isn't your forté.

I think Hughes was a rare universally agreed upon pick between Weisbrod, Benning, and Brackett.

 

[4Twenty]

Well, duh.
He came into the Boston job with 6 years of head scout experience with 13 years of scouting experience total. He had no other executive experience. If you don't think he had influence or control over the scouts from the top down and some influence on their picks, then I guess common sense isn't your forté.

I think Hughes was a rare universally agreed upon pick between Weisbrod, Benning, and Brackett.

Iirc there was a poster here who sometimes has insights on inside mgmt, canuck75 I think who made a post before the 2018 draft (the day prior) that a mod deleted, that said even Aquilini was sold. Iirc the line was Aquilini walking in and saying you’re picking Hughes if he’s there.

Hughes was a universally approved pick. Many had him vying for 2/3 in the class. He’s not exactly an off the board selection. We’ve been hearing about the Hughes brothers since they were 13.