Management Thread | Edge of the day AFTER Tomorrow

[BB06]

Bringing Tanev back for four years will be a major mistake. Hope the leafs entice him enough with money/term/playing at home.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

We all love Tanev but he is coming off the only healthy season he's ever had. Four years is risky but from his camp a reasonable ask.

 

[David71]

At what price? 4 years is objectively a reasonable demand from Tanev.

price is unknown.

 

[David71]

3. As part of this, the Canucks want to begin an overhaul of their blue line. One coach said it was noticeable how differently Dallas could handle Vegas as opposed to Vancouver. The Stars have a big, strong, mobile defence that consistently broke down the Golden Knights’ offence. After he said this, I spent some time re-watching the games, and you can definitely see it. The Canucks clearly felt they had to pack in the middle and defend from there, while Dallas felt very comfortable aggressively challenging Vegas and were successful doing it. The contracts and free agency get the headlines, but this will be a critical part of Vancouver’s planning. (This coach, by the way, also said another difference between Dallas and Vancouver was the Stars sustained pressure in the offensive zone, which forced Vegas’s best forwards to change instead of rushing the puck up ice. Small thing, but a big thing.) from elliote friedmans thoughts.

you cant possibly go into next year with the same blueline do we? tanev/stecher gone. dont put the kids in just yet... time to find some puck movers to help quinn hughes.

 

[bossram]

I don't think so but this talk about his numbers being underwhelming should stop. Prior to this season, Dumba has scored 10 or more goals in his previous 4 regular seasons. You know how many Canucks Dmen have scored 10 or more goals in a season in that timespan? One - Edler last season. In that timespan, the next best was Tanev who scored 12 goals during that time span TOTAL! Stecher and Hutton were next on the list with 11 goals. Hughes' 8 should obviously surpass those guys quickly.

As I posted in another thread, Dumba had 14 goals 50 points two seasons ago and produced 12 goals and 22 points in 32 games last season before he tore his pec muscle. Point is that prior to tearing his pec muscle, Dumba's "numbers" aren't underwhelming at all. The problem is that he hasn't been the same since his injury.

People on HFboards always deride offensive defensemen as being bad at defense but...this is exactly what Dumba is. Even his 5o point season notwithstanding, his counting numbers are good but his on-ice results aren't great.

Jack Han had a good analysis on him today. In the defensive zone, Dumba is pretty frantic and very liable to making throwaway passes or dump outs. He likes to activate and shoot when in the offensive zone, but it's not always ideal when a defenseman is the team's primary shooter when he's on the ice (being that defensemen are generally shooting from far away).

Looking at Dumba's RAPM numbers among Minnesota's regular defensemen, he had the worst goal differential and the worst xG differential. This is driven by his poor defensive metrics. I think the injury has probably hurt his effectiveness. But that makes it an easy decision to stay away.

 

[Fatass]

People on HFboards always deride offensive defensemen as being bad as defense but...this is exactly what Dumba is. Even his 5o point season notwithstanding, his counting numbers are good but his on-ice results aren't great.

Jack Han had a good analysis on him today. In the defensive zone, Dumba is pretty frantic and very liable to making throwaway passes or dump outs. He likes to activate and shoot when in the offensive zone, but it's not always ideal when a defenseman is the team's primary shooter when he's on the ice (being that defensemen are generally shooting from far away).

Looking at Dumba's RAPM numbers among Minnesota's regular defensemen, he had the worst goal differential and the worst xG differential. This is driven by his poor defensive metrics. I think the injury has probably hurt his effectiveness. But that makes it an easy decision to stay away.

Imo we are far better off with Stecher making half the cap cost than having Dumba and his 6. Even with his obvious physical challenges to handle the big boys along walls and net front, Stecher is the far better defensive player. Dumba is only 180 pounds! He’s a very light D man, who struggles in his own zone along walls and net front too. He’s an overrated player, and we should stay clear of him. My worry is Benning, who has a terrible track record (other than Hughes) with evaluating the usefulness of D.

 

[sting101]

3. As part of this, the Canucks want to begin an overhaul of their blue line. One coach said it was noticeable how differently Dallas could handle Vegas as opposed to Vancouver. The Stars have a big, strong, mobile defence that consistently broke down the Golden Knights’ offence. After he said this, I spent some time re-watching the games, and you can definitely see it. The Canucks clearly felt they had to pack in the middle and defend from there, while Dallas felt very comfortable aggressively challenging Vegas and were successful doing it. The contracts and free agency get the headlines, but this will be a critical part of Vancouver’s planning. (This coach, by the way, also said another difference between Dallas and Vancouver was the Stars sustained pressure in the offensive zone, which forced Vegas’s best forwards to change instead of rushing the puck up ice. Small thing, but a big thing.) from elliote friedmans thoughts.

you cant possibly go into next year with the same blueline do we? tanev/stecher gone. dont put the kids in just yet... time to find some puck movers to help quinn hughes.

We may have to for one more year but it's imperitive that we find at least one stud that can eat 20minutes and has some size to knock people off pucks

 

[Hit the post]

We may have to for one more year but it's imperitive that we find at least one stud that can eat 20minutes and has some size to knock people off pucks

I'd settle for just four defensively sound D that you can rely on being in the lineup most of the time.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i am a little worried about the order of things this year. benning has team budget, cap room issues and player obligations that force him to look at signing his big 3 ufas first. it's bad for the team on and off the ice if they all trundle off to test free agency, and benning cannot afford the optics to his team of not trying to sign these popular players on fair deals.

the problem is that means benning will have to make fair offers based on the historic market before the potentially ruthless ufa market establishes itself this season. that's going to force him to go in higher than i think the market will ultimately show these guys are worth this year. if the agents involved play this right. i predict we end up signing these three guys on deals that would have sounded great a year ago, but are overmarket this years, leaving us unable to be active in what could be a historically bargain filled free agent market.

the other problem is that benning cannot make big opportunistic moves that add salary until the big three contracts play out. right now all he can explore are salary neutral moves and cap dumps and that potentially does not change until the ufa window opens after the draft, meaning his hands could be tied during the draft.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Something happen.
So I can be shocked or upset. Hurry up.

 

[Fatass]

I'd settle for just four defensively sound D that you can rely on being in the lineup most of the time.

Big miss taking OJ over Sergachev. Watching him play with TBay just reinforces Benning can’t evaluate D.

 

[bossram]

Imo we are far better off with Stecher making half the cap cost than having Dumba and his 6. Even with his obvious physical challenges to handle the big boys along walls and net front, Stecher is the far better defensive player. Dumba is only 180 pounds! He’s a very light D man, who struggles in his own zone along walls and net front too. He’s an overrated player, and we should stay clear of him. My worry is Benning, who has a terrible track record (other than Hughes) with evaluating the usefulness of D.

100%. Stecher is probably not even going to get a raise from his current contract - his arbitration case is pretty weak. Given his dedication to the team, maybe he's even willing to take a slight haircut at longer term. At even strength, he's definitely a better player than Dumba. Dumba gets some empty calorie and PP points, but with Hughes as our PP QB there isn't even an opportunity for Dumba there.

Like you said, Benning's evaluation of defensemen is incredibly bad, so who knows how he rebuilds the blueline.

 

[Fatass]

100%. Stecher is probably not even going to get a raise from his current contract - his arbitration case is pretty weak. Given his dedication to the team, maybe he's even willing to take a slight haircut at longer term. At even strength, he's definitely a better player than Dumba. Dumba gets some empty calorie and PP points, but with Hughes as our PP QB there isn't even an opportunity for Dumba there.

Like you said, Benning's evaluation of defensemen is incredibly bad, so who knows how he rebuilds the blueline.

I wonder if Stecher would take a five year term at 2 - 2.5 per?

 

[F A N]

People on HFboards always deride offensive defensemen as being bad as defense but...this is exactly what Dumba is. Even his 5o point season notwithstanding, his counting numbers are good but his on-ice results aren't great.

Jack Han had a good analysis on him today. In the defensive zone, Dumba is pretty frantic and very liable to making throwaway passes or dump outs. He likes to activate and shoot when in the offensive zone, but it's not always ideal when a defenseman is the team's primary shooter when he's on the ice (being that defensemen are generally shooting from far away).

Looking at Dumba's RAPM numbers among Minnesota's regular defensemen, he had the worst goal differential and the worst xG differential. This is driven by his poor defensive metrics. I think the injury has probably hurt his effectiveness. But that makes it an easy decision to stay away.

Oh don't get wrong. I'm not really a fan of Dumba and have made it clear. I worry about the Phaneuf comparisons which at the time of the draft was a praise. I think at his best (pre-injury) Dumba had a positive impact on the ice. Based on his performance this season, I certainly wouldn't trade Boeser for him.

 

[F A N]

Big miss taking OJ over Sergachev. Watching him play with TBay just reinforces Benning can’t evaluate D.

Pretty sure Brackett and the majority of the scouts ranked Juolevi ahead of Sergachev.

 

[bossram]

I wonder if Stecher would take a five year term at 2 - 2.5 per?

I could see something like that. Ryan Ellis basically signed that same contract (prior to his current one).

 

[F A N]

3. As part of this, the Canucks want to begin an overhaul of their blue line. One coach said it was noticeable how differently Dallas could handle Vegas as opposed to Vancouver. The Stars have a big, strong, mobile defence that consistently broke down the Golden Knights’ offence. After he said this, I spent some time re-watching the games, and you can definitely see it. The Canucks clearly felt they had to pack in the middle and defend from there, while Dallas felt very comfortable aggressively challenging Vegas and were successful doing it. The contracts and free agency get the headlines, but this will be a critical part of Vancouver’s planning. (This coach, by the way, also said another difference between Dallas and Vancouver was the Stars sustained pressure in the offensive zone, which forced Vegas’s best forwards to change instead of rushing the puck up ice. Small thing, but a big thing.) from elliote friedmans thoughts.

you cant possibly go into next year with the same blueline do we? tanev/stecher gone. dont put the kids in just yet... time to find some puck movers to help quinn hughes.

On the one hand you talk about the Stars having big, strong, mobile defense and on the other hand you talk about finding some puck movers. Not that they are mutually exclusive but...

 

[Fatass]

Pretty sure Brackett and the majority of the scouts ranked Juolevi ahead of Sergachev.

Pretty sure Benning said something like he loved OJ’s performance at the WJC. Imo this is another of the Benning picks. As a fan, Benning makes me worried, especially when it comes to decisions about D. (Excepting Quinn, of course).

 

[Fatass]

I could see something like that. Ryan Ellis basically signed that same contract (prior to his current one).

Is Benning a forward enough thinker to get such a deal done though? When he makes public comments like, “we have to make some tough decisions on our RFAs”, it gets me thinking he’s going to let Stecher walk.

 

[F A N]

Pretty sure Benning said something like he loved OJ’s performance at the WJC. Imo this is another of the Benning picks. As a fan, Benning makes me worried, especially when it comes to decisions about D. (Excepting Quinn, of course).

Oh for sure I think Benning preferred Juolevi. But Sergachev doesn't strike me as the type of Dman Brackett favours.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Pretty sure Benning said something like he loved OJ’s performance at the WJC. Imo this is another of the Benning picks. As a fan, Benning makes me worried, especially when it comes to decisions about D. (Excepting Quinn, of course).

Yeah Benning was singing Juolevi's praises from the WJC to draft day.

Dude has no poker face. It's incredibly obvious when he's keyed on a prospect (Juolevi, Hughes) vs when he hasn't (Pettersson).

Seriously, look at this.

Hughes:


Pettersson:


Night and day. Not to say he didn't like Pettersson, but there are two clearly different levels of enthusiasm there.

 

[Ryp37]

Yeah Benning was singing Juolevi's praises from the WJC to draft day.

Dude has no poker face. It's incredibly obvious when he's keyed on a prospect (Juolevi, Hughes) vs when he hasn't (Pettersson).

Seriously, look at this.

Hughes:


Pettersson:


Night and day. Not to say he didn't like Pettersson, but there are two clearly different levels of enthusiasm there.

The hair differences are the best part of this

 

[Fatass]

The hair differences are the best part of this

I’m not a fan of Benning the GM, but he does come across (otherwise) as a truly good person. I don’t get the hair thing either.

 

[nowhereman]

Big miss taking OJ over Sergachev. Watching him play with TBay just reinforces Benning can’t evaluate D.

Well, neither can the majority of the scouting community, since Juolevi was ranked ahead of Sergachev in the majority of rankings.

2016 NHL Draft Rankings

I am constantly amazed at the revisionist history surrounding the Juolevi pick. Hell, if you go back to 2016, Tkachuk was winning "who is most likely to bust" HFBoards polls in a landslide, with many writing him off as a product of his lineage. Even he wasn't the slam dunk many proclaim him to have been after the fact. Now, all these years later, we're supposed to believe that Benning pulled rank and overruled his scouts, in spite of the fact that Brackett and co. were all begging him not to make such a horrible mistake?

The most anyone can say about that Juolevi pick, after it was made, was that he was arguably picked a few spots early. Anything beyond that is just hindsight. No one expected his development to turn out the way it did.

 

[timw33]

Assuming Elliote means Elias Lindholm (CGY)...