News Article: Malkin Opens up about 18-19 season

[Gurglesons]

The Hawks have had 2 prominent Russians on their roster over that timeframe, which is twice as many as we've had.

Neither was a clear lotto pick - one was a trade and the other was exactly the kind of skilled KHL signing we should be exploring more often.

You have literally no idea what we did or did not offer Panarin.

They’ve had 2 Russians. We’ve had 1. Is that really that big of a deal?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Almeida is tracking great so far as a 5th rounder.

Simon was 5th round pick putting together an nhl career and jump in almost right away after the draft.

The redwings who became know for the late round pick steals have had almost twice the draft picks as the pens and have one player in the past 10 years to make it froms 4 and on.

This is a very flawed argument. Basically saying the pens don’t throw away enough picks hoping to find one guy in 10 years.

I'm saying that it's better to spend a few picks on risky high upside guys rather than so frequently defer to safe low-upside guys who - even if they pan out - likely don't amount to more than you could grab in UFA for nothing.

We could use more Almeida-type picks...even if they're from Russia (!).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You have literally no idea what we did or did not offer Panarin.

They’ve had 2 Russians. We’ve had 1. Is that really that big of a deal?

I know that when KHL players are coming over here and looking for decent money, I've never seen the Pens in the mix.

It irks me that when a star like Panarin or Gusev comes over, even when there's a potential fit with Kessel out the door, we're absent. It's an avenue for talent acquisition that we don't seem to acknowledge, for whatever reason.

 

[Gurglesons]

I know that when KHL players are coming over here and looking for decent money, I've never seen the Pens in the mix.

It irks me that when a star like Panarin or Gusev comes over, even when there's a potential fit with Kessel out the door, we're absent. It's an avenue for talent acquisition that we don't seem to acknowledge, for whatever reason.

Gusev didn’t come over. He was drafted by the Lightning and traded twice.

We have no context of what the Pens offered or did not offer Panarin and you’re mad because Sully hurt your boy Sprong’s feelings. So now let’s turn it into an agenda of Russians don’t jive with Sullivan.

It’s an avenue that as you point out costs money which we rarely have. Cue complaining about Jack Johnson or Gudbranson.

 

[molon labe]

There's a follow-on Q&A happening right now... Few goodies in there.

...such as:

User: " ...Does it appear that he's 100% healthy and ready to go?..."
RR: "...He dropped weight. He's jacked..."

User: "Who - is Geno's professed preferred winger?..."
RR: "....He doesn't want a shooter who becomes a passer. ...if he has a shooter on one side and a winger who gets pucks and play defense on the other, he will prefer that to wingers with games that fluctuate."

 

[Peat]

Like Rust (3 rd), Guentzel(3 rd), Murray(3 rd), Dominik Simon (5 rd)? You cant just cherry pick. These guys didn't have huge upside but became huge reasons why we won cups. But I guess we could of pick some boom or bust picks.

Also of recent , justin almeida (5 rd), Niclas Almari (5rd), Angello (5 rd), Lafferty (4 rd) are all guys who could make impacts this year or next.

There is an average of like 15 russians picked a year. 15 that means if your team picks one you have more than half of the NHL.

Guentzel was a high skill, high IQ guy the size of a malnourished 13 year old. If that's not boom or bust I don't know what is. Simon had more than a whiff of it too iirc.

Ditto Almeida.

Don't know too much about Murray and Rust - although I don't think Murray's stats were well regarded - but I think looking at our current stock of late picks and not seeing boom or bust picks is puzzling.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Gusev didn’t come over. He was drafted by the Lightning and traded twice.

Um, being traded doesn't preclude coming over. He was acquired for a song and will be over this year.

We have no context of what the Pens offered or did not offer Panarin and you’re mad because Sully hurt your boy Sprong’s feelings. So now let’s turn it into an agenda of Russians don’t jive with Sullivan.

It’s an avenue that as you point out costs money which we rarely have. Cue complaining about Jack Johnson or Gudbranson.

You need a new routine. Believe it or not, I can have issues about talent acquisition and retention that go beyond one player.

If you want to keep bringing this up in unrelated threads, we can always revive your wacky Guentzel for Bennett posts which I'd happily moved beyond. Or we can try to focus on the argument at hand. Up to you.

 

[Gurglesons]

Um, being traded doesn't preclude coming over. He was acquired for a song and will be over this year.



You need a new routine. Believe it or not, I can have issues about talent acquisition and retention that go beyond one player.

If you want to keep bringing this up in unrelated threads, we can always revive your wacky Guentzel for Bennett posts which I'd happily moved beyond. Or we can try to focus on the argument at hand. Up to you.

The argument at hand keeps on resorting back to how Sullivan has treated Sprong. So, please try to spare me the semantics.

Gusev came over last year and was a black ace for Vegas.

The amount of risk that Gusev contract is would be horrible cap management by us. I think he will be a great player, but we simply can not afford question marks like that.

It was also Bennett and CAL’s 1st for Jake

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The argument at hand keeps on resorting back to how Sullivan has treated Sprong. So, please try to spare me the semantics.

Gusev came over last year and was a black ace for Vegas.

It has nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with keeping a discussion on the rails. Like I said, it's up to you.

Gusev's a very high-upside player who happens to be Russian acquired for relatively little (less in terms of assets than we gave up for Reaves, and signed to a less risky contract than JJ) and is coming over to NJ this year. That's the sort of deal I'd like the Pens to be in on that they never seem to be.

Why are we inclined to make costlier moves for mediocre-to-bad "pushback" players but not for ultra-skilled KHLers?

 

[Gurglesons]

It has nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with keeping a discussion on the rails. Like I said, it's up to you.

Gusev's a very high-upside player who happens to be Russian acquired for relatively little (less in terms of assets than we gave up for Reaves, and signed to a less risky contract than JJ) and is coming over to NJ this year. That's the sort of deal I'd like the Pens to be in on that they never seem to be.

Why are we inclined to make costlier moves for mediocre-to-bad "pushback" players but not for ultra-skilled KHLers?

We aren’t. But you are comparing apples and oranges. And then trying to act like our coach doesn’t like apples so that’s why we don’t have any. When I’d argue Sullivan is one of the most offense oriented coaches in the league.

 

[Darren McCord]

Guentzel was a high skill, high IQ guy the size of a malnourished 13 year old. If that's not boom or bust I don't know what is

Guentzel was rated in the fourth round and not talked about much. If he didn't pan out it wouldn't of been crazy. He was never predicted to boom.

A boom or bust to me is a guy who has high upside gets talked about but he has lots of red flags so he falls in the draft. I dont consider many players in the late round to be boom or bust. And Guentzel had a low chance of busting I think. He was going to make it in someway due to his hockey IQ.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kapanen, Sprong, and even Addison strike me all as boom / bust prospects. So I’m not really sure what you guys are talking about.

 

[Empoleon8771]

ES production and possession are the stats most often used to evaluate forwards here, and I'm using the most recent 2 year sample size for Kessel and Geno with and without JJ. I'd say that's pretty comprehensive.

If you think I'm "cherry-picking" and ignoring "a ton of context", you can always post a counter-argument. What am I missing here?

You can point out:

1. Schultz had the bigger drain on Malkin and Kessel than any other defenseman statistically (source for Schultz, source for JJ)
2. Pettersson-Johnson with Malkin and Kessel gave good results (source)
3. Johnson with Malkin and Kessel and without Schultz gave decent results (source)

So yes, you are entirely cherrypicking. You are cherrypicking the stats behind one chart that ignores a ton of context (like how Johnson's stats with Malkin and Kessel were fine when Johnson wasn't with Schultz), and passing it off as fact that JJ is the SOLE reason for the 2nd line struggling last year. Not only is it totally wrong statistically, it also completely ignores the impact that a crappy Kessel, a struggling Malkin and a pissing match between Sullivan and Kessel had on the 2nd line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We aren’t. But you are comparing apples and oranges. And then trying to act like our coach doesn’t like apples so that’s why we don’t have any. When I’d argue Sullivan is one of the most offense oriented coaches in the league.

Sullivan doesn't have a problem with offense, he has a problem with offense-only.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about team priorities regarding cap and asset allocation. The Pens are inclined to spend assets and take contract risks on mediocre players who fit a certain mold but not exceptionally skilled forwards. Both have similar floors but one group has a much higher ceiling.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You can point out:

1. Schultz had the bigger drain on Malkin and Kessel than any other defenseman statistically (source for Schultz, source for JJ)
2. Pettersson-Johnson with Malkin and Kessel gave good results (source)
3. Johnson with Malkin and Kessel and without Schultz gave decent results (source)

So yes, you are entirely cherrypicking. You are cherrypicking the stats behind one chart that ignores a ton of context (like how Johnson's stats with Malkin and Kessel were fine when Johnson wasn't with Schultz), and passing it off as fact that JJ is the SOLE reason for the 2nd line struggling last year.

Schultz played 21 games on a leg that bent the wrong way and Pettersson isn't going to be playing with JJ this year for a host of reasons.

But I'm cherry-picking? Doctor, heal thyself.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Schultz played 21 games on a leg that bent the wrong way and Pettersson isn't going to be playing with JJ this year for a host of reasons.

But I'm cherry-picking? Doctor, heal thyself.

You're not only cherrypicking, you're also dismissing the points that prove your argument wrong just because you don't want to believe them. How does who MP is going to play with this year have ANY impact on this discussion?

Do you even know what you're arguing here? Let's get back on track, you're arguing that Jack Johnson was entirely responsible for the 2nd line having problem last year. The stats I provided proves that is bogus, and you saying "nah, I don't agree with those stats" is not a rebuttal to that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sullivan doesn't have a problem with offense, he has a problem with offense-only.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about team priorities regarding cap and asset allocation. The Pens are inclined to spend assets and take contract risks on mediocre players who fit a certain mold but not exceptionally skilled forwards. Both have similar floors but one group has a much higher ceiling.

You have no idea what the Pens are able and willing to sign.

Given our drafting history, trades for players like Kessel, Perron, and now Galchenyuk, I say you’re full is shit.

The Pittsburgh Penguins identity since day one has been offensive first forwards.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Guentzel was rated in the fourth round and not talked about much. If he didn't pan out it wouldn't of been crazy. He was never predicted to boom.

A boom or bust to me is a guy who has high upside gets talked about but he has lots of red flags so he falls in the draft. I dont consider many players in the late round to be boom or bust. And Guentzel had a low chance of busting I think. He was going to make it in someway due to his hockey IQ.

Top 25 Under 25 - #15 Jake Guentzel

How the Pens landed Guentzel

Guentzel was pegged as an exceptionally smart and gifted player from the beginning, but as Scott Bell mentioned, the biggest knock on him was that "he looked like a 4th grader".

If we took more risks on players like Guentzel, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You're not only cherrypicking, you're also dismissing the points that prove your argument wrong just because you don't want to believe them. How does who MP is going to play with this year have ANY impact on this discussion?

Do you even know what you're arguing here? Let's get back on track, you're arguing that Jack Johnson was entirely responsible for the 2nd line having problem last year. The stats I provided proves that is bogus, and you saying "nah, I don't agree with those stats" is not a rebuttal to that.

Your only counter-argument is a 21 game sample size of a severely injured defenseman coming back from injury who had worse possession numbers than a perfectly healthy JJ.

Who MP is going to play with is critical because he can only babysit one player at a time. JJ's going to do his usual damage. He is the problem.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Your only counter-argument is a 21 game sample size of a severely injured defenseman coming back from injury who had worse possession numbers than a perfectly healthy JJ.

No it's not, are you dense? The argument is that Schultz coming back terrible after his injury tanked the fine possession stats Johnson had with Malkin and Kessel. Schultz is the reason that Johnson-Malkin-Kessel as a trio had terrible stats through the entire year. Whether you think that's sustainable going forward is totally irrelevant to that fact.

We're not looking at stats from a 21 game sample size, we're pointing out that Johnson's stats over an 82 game sample size are lower due to that 21 game sample size while playing with Schultz. That's including the context that your masterful analysis didn't include.

Who MP is going to play with is critical because he can only babysit one player at a time. JJ's going to do his usual damage. He is the problem.

No it isn't because we're taking about ****ing last season. Stay on topic. You coming up with crap arguments to try and diminish the points I'm bringing up, instead of bringing up your own counter-points, just shows how you don't actually have a rebuttal.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You have no idea what the Pens are able and willing to sign.

Given our drafting history, trades for players like Kessel, Perron, and now Galchenyuk, I say you’re full is ****.

The Pittsburgh Penguins identity since day one has been offensive first forwards.

Their recent track record speaks for itself. The money and assets have been used on pushback goobers, and nearly all the offense-only wingers have been sent packing. The only one we presently have is on a short leash and a UFA at the end of the year - and was acquired when we had precious few options.

 

[Gurglesons]

Their recent track record speaks for itself. The money and assets have been used on pushback goobers, and nearly all the offense-only wingers have been sent packing. The only one we presently have is on a short leash and a UFA at the end of the year - and was acquired when we had precious few options.

Nope.

 

[IcedCapp]

8 pages out of 11 in a Geno thread dedicated to incorrectly bashing the penguins on their Russian record. Bravo

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No it's not, are you dense? The argument is that Schultz coming back terrible after his injury tanked the fine possession stats Johnson had with Malkin and Kessel. Schultz is the reason that Johnson-Malkin-Kessel as a trio had terrible stats through the entire year. Whether you think that's sustainable going forward is totally irrelevant to that fact.

We're not looking at stats from a 21 game sample size, we're pointing out that Johnson's stats over an 82 game sample size are lower due to that 21 game sample size while playing with Schultz. That's including the context that your masterful analysis didn't include.

Did you notice that even without Schultz, JJ still brought down Geno and Kessel's possession numbers considerably?

He is the problem.

No it isn't because we're taking about ****ing last season. Stay on topic. You coming up with crap arguments to try and diminish the points I'm bringing up, instead of bringing up your own counter-points, just shows how you don't actually have a rebuttal.

You're talking about a player JJ played 49 minutes with last year and won't play with this year.

But again, I'm cherry-picking?

 

[Gurglesons]

8 pages out of 11 in a Geno thread dedicated to incorrectly bashing the penguins on their Russian record. Bravo

Hey man. Don’t disparage the success we had when we surrounded Jags with Czech talent.