Mackinnon or Matthews

[Dekes For Days]

You must of missed the part where someone laid out posts literally characterizing what he had said.

No, I didn't miss any post at all. There were no posts characterizing what that individual claimed. If there's a statement being made, that person needs to own it and support it, not hide behind others as a reason to not substantiate ridiculous claims.

 

[Tralfamadore]

This thread isn't locked yet?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

You're right. It's not so much just the volume, but like I wrote the "release" and having a "nose for the net" (ie. getting into position for a pass, and shooting from the right spots). Again, in a vacuum, I take Mac. But (and this is obviously just my opinion) I like Mathews more as a goalscorer.

Hehe I knew what you meant, just had to nit pick

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

MacKinnon today, remains to be seen at the same point in their careers. Matthews was much better at the same points in their careers...how much does he grow or not?

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

MacK.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This only took about 5 minutes, but let me guess? These are all fake leaf fans?

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Quick glance (can't see all the posters) but yeah, 4 of those you listed are what could be deemed potentially as permanenet Leaf trolls. At the very least people you can predict what their opinion will be on every subject related to the Leafs before they even state it.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

MacKinnon today, remains to be seen at the same point in their careers. Matthews was much better at the same points in their careers...how much does he grow or not?

I've literally never heard this before, what an original perspective!

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Quick glance (can't see all the posters) but yeah, 4 of those you listed are what could be deemed potentially as permanenet Leaf trolls. At the very least people you can predict what their opinion will be on every subject related to the Leafs before they even state it.

Just because you don't like their opinions doesn't mean they're trolls lmao

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I've literally never heard this before, what an original perspective!

It's a fairly standard concept don't you think? Players tend to follow development curves. If one outdoes the other at the same points in curve, it isn't unreasonable to expect that may continue. No guarantee.

There's a reason the HF Boards poll section frequently likes to compare Leaf 22 year olds to other team's 27 year olds. Doing otherwise becomes much less palatable.

Not even sure why you'd get all defensive about this given I said I would take MacKinnon today, just not sure I would going forward. Nothing particularly unreasonable about that.

 

[BBB24]

Matthews easily, kid can score at will and is proving to be one of the best if not the best goal scorers in the league. Also being two years younger he still has a lot of growing of his game to do, he will likely be a consistent 50 goal scorer in two years. No warts on MacKinnon’s game either, just prefer Matthews.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Just because you don't like their opinions doesn't mean they're trolls lmao

It has nothing to do with whether you like their opinions. If you can predict someone's stance on everything, it ends up telling you a lot.....to the extent it isn't an opinion but a role.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

It's a fairly standard concept don't you think? Players tend to follow development curves. If one outdoes the other at the same points in curve, it isn't unreasonable to expect that may continue. No guarantee.

There's a reason the HF Boards poll section frequently likes to compare Leaf 22 year olds to other team's 27 year olds. Doing otherwise becomes much less palatable.

Only leaf fans think it's a good argument. It's not.


And now MacKinnon is FIVE years older than baby Matthews?

 

[tilly123123]

Mackinnon and it’s not close. Mack wins games , Matthews takes his ass out and runs away . Two very different people . I think only laughes fans would take Matthews here...

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Lol Mackinnon AINEC. Rantanen or Matthews would’ve been a better question.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Only leaf fans think it's a good argument. It's not.


And now MacKinnon is FIVE years older than baby Matthews?

Reading 101. No one said MacKinnon is 5 years older. Go back and re-read.

You can choose to ignore development curves at your own peril. There's literally 100+ years of data at your fingertips. If you don't like data, suit yourself but odds are you'll end up on the short end. Just so you know, here's how both players compared through their first 4 years:

G/GP

0.56 Matthews
0.25 MacKinnon

A/GP

0.45 Matthews
0.43 MacKinnon

Pts/GP

1.01 Matthews
0.68 MacKinnon

At every step, Matthews has been better (and significantly so). MacKinnon is better TODAY but there is literally nothing to suggest that by the same point in their development, the same will hold true. Matthews is just now for the first time getting increased minutes, increased PP and some high level linemates.

Both are great players. Today, I might take MacKinnon but not sure I would over time. Can't go wrong with either though.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Reading 101. No one said MacKinnon is 5 years older. Go back and re-read.

You can choose to ignore development curves at your own peril. There's literally 100+ years of data at your fingertips. If you don't like data, suit yourself but odds are you'll end up on the short end. Just so you know, here's how both players compared through their first 4 years:

G/GP

0.56 Matthews
0.25 MacKinnon

A/GP

0.45 Matthews
0.43 MacKinnon

Pts/GP

1.01 Matthews
0.68 MacKinnon

At every step, Matthews has been better (and significantly so). MacKinnon is better TODAY but there is literally nothing to suggest that by the same point in their development, the same will hold true. Matthews is just now for the first time getting increased minutes, increased PP and some high level linemates.

Both are great players. Today, I might take MacKinnon but not sure I would over time. Can't go wrong with either though.

Do you actually think I haven't seen these stats before? They're probably posted on several of the pages in this thread already.

I categorically disagree that it's worth comparing them like this and so do most other people. MacKinnon has 3 straight MVP level seasons and Matthews is all per GP or per 60 stats. He might produce near MacK's seasons this year, and that's a lot of goals too. MacKinnon is just the more substantive player though. He carries this team on his shoulders (which would probably tweak Matthew's shoulder tbh )

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lol Mackinnon AINEC. Rantanen or Matthews would’ve been a better question.

How many non Leafs fans would still choose Rantanen if that question was actually asked?

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Reading 101. No one said MacKinnon is 5 years older. Go back and re-read.

You can choose to ignore development curves at your own peril. There's literally 100+ years of data at your fingertips. If you don't like data, suit yourself but odds are you'll end up on the short end. Just so you know, here's how both players compared through their first 4 years:

G/GP

0.56 Matthews
0.25 MacKinnon

A/GP

0.45 Matthews
0.43 MacKinnon

Pts/GP

1.01 Matthews
0.68 MacKinnon

At every step, Matthews has been better (and significantly so). MacKinnon is better TODAY but there is literally nothing to suggest that by the same point in their development, the same will hold true. Matthews is just now for the first time getting increased minutes, increased PP and some high level linemates.

Both are great players. Today, I might take MacKinnon but not sure I would over time. Can't go wrong with either though.

Mackinnon started slow, compare this season and the last 2 with Matthews. Wonder what the playoff stats look like between the two players? Mackinnon is so damn tough to handle, he drives play and tilts the ice in his team’s favour. He was practically unstoppable in last years playoffs, does so much more than score. Matthews hasn’t really progressed since his rookie year, his overall game needs work and he is weak defensively. Comparing Matthews to Mackinnon is an insult to Mackinnon’s greatness.

 

[tucker3434]

Reading 101. No one said MacKinnon is 5 years older. Go back and re-read.

You can choose to ignore development curves at your own peril. There's literally 100+ years of data at your fingertips. If you don't like data, suit yourself but odds are you'll end up on the short end. Just so you know, here's how both players compared through their first 4 years:

G/GP

0.56 Matthews
0.25 MacKinnon

A/GP

0.45 Matthews
0.43 MacKinnon

Pts/GP

1.01 Matthews
0.68 MacKinnon

At every step, Matthews has been better (and significantly so). MacKinnon is better TODAY but there is literally nothing to suggest that by the same point in their development, the same will hold true. Matthews is just now for the first time getting increased minutes, increased PP and some high level linemates.

Both are great players. Today, I might take MacKinnon but not sure I would over time. Can't go wrong with either though.

Great, now let us know how many guys that outscored Datsyuk at 19 ended up better than him.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

How many non Leafs fans would still choose Rantanen if that question was actually asked?

Probably not many

 

[Kamiccolo]

Mackinnon and it’s not close. Mack wins games , Matthews takes his ass out and runs away . Two very different people . I think only laughes fans would take Matthews here...

Something tells me if they switched teams you'd be saying the same thing about Mack lol

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Do you actually think I haven't seen these stats before? They're probably posted on several of the pages in this thread already.

I categorically disagree that it's worth comparing them like this and so do most other people. MacKinnon has 3 straight MVP level seasons and Matthews is all per GP or per 60 stats. He might produce near MacK's seasons this year, and that's a lot of goals too. MacKinnon is just the more substantive player though. He carries this team on his shoulders (which would probably tweak Matthew's shoulder tbh )

You or they can disagree all you want. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

You would also have to realize that one (or perhaps many) are presenting opinion whilst others are presenting facts. Just last year we heard droves of HF arguing that there is no logical reason to expect Matthews production to increase with increased ice time and increased PP time. Now the one big argument they placed was that "production isn't linear", which in itself is stupid because no one argued it was. That's a classic HF debate tactic where people invent others' argument and essentially debate themselves rather than the person they are responding to. Fast forward a year and GASP the unthinkable (to some) unfolds. Probably the last thing you want to present to me as an argument is what "most others think". Usually that's your first sign to stop and re-think.

By the by, if how someone does on a per game basis offends you so much, does this help you:

Matthews 77 more goals, 9 less assists, 68 more points. Albeit in in 30 less games and I won't bother to tell you how many less minutes or usage.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Matthews 77 more goals, 9 less assists, 68 more points. Albeit in in 30 less games and I won't bother to tell you how many less minutes or usage.

You mean if you choose to conveniently ignore the last several seasons right?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Mackinnon started slow, compare this season and the last 2 with Matthews. Wonder what the playoff stats look like between the two players? Mackinnon is so damn tough to handle, he drives play and tilts the ice in his team’s favour. He was practically unstoppable in last years playoffs, does so much more than score. Matthews hasn’t really progressed since his rookie year, his overall game needs work and he is weak defensively. Comparing Matthews to Mackinnon is an insult to Mackinnon’s greatness.

Matthews has actually progressed every year. Yes MacKinnon has done better in playoffs so far, although people don't realize that Matthews' goal scoring playoff rates put him among the top all time. Obviously he has to prove he can sustain such but given what we've seen so far, no reason to suspect he won't.

 

[dustybreaks]

No, I didn't miss any post at all. There were no posts characterizing what that individual claimed. If there's a statement being made, that person needs to own it and support it, not hide behind others as a reason to not substantiate ridiculous claims.

Stop trolling.

The posts clearly question his motivational issues as he said he’s seen numerous posts by leaf fans doing just that. Evidence was supplied, now where is yours to support your claim that he doesn’t have motivational issues.