Mackinnon or Matthews

[Boxscore]

Curious, do you think MacKinnon is a better player than Ovechkin?

Better player right now? Yes. Better goal scorer? No.

 

[TheDoldrums]

The case for Matthews is his ELITE shot and goal scoring ability. Also, his first year, he was a complete puck hound who was relentless on the backcheck--these days not so much. The issue is that MacKinnon is also a high-end goal scorer and at this point plays a more complete game. MacKinnon is also more consistent.

I think Matthews has been really good defensively this year, particularly under Keefe. His positioning in the d-zone is far better than I've ever seen it, he's often breaking up chances in the high danger areas and spends more time closer to the net than he did under Babcock (partly due to coaching philosophy). Pretty common now to see highlight packages of his defensive play during games, that was very rare in the past. I do agree that in his 2nd and 3rd seasons he was lackadaisical at times with his defense.

 

[Anya6687]

Both players are elite....but Mac without a doubt

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think Matthews has been really good defensively this year, particularly under Keefe. His positioning in the d-zone is far better than I've ever seen it, he's often breaking up chances in the high danger areas and spends more time closer to the net than he did under Babcock (partly due to coaching philosophy).

I do agree that in his 2nd and 3rd seasons he was lackadaisical at times.

Do you think Matthews missing those games in his 2nd and 3rd seasons is what made him look lackadaisical?

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Curious, do you think MacKinnon is a better player than Ovechkin?

Right now? Absolutely, no question about it.

 

[Zenos]

I think Mac is the better player (and yeah, actually it is pretty close), but if I'm answering the OP's question - I take Mathews for my team (Oilers).

Why? Because I think he brings something else to the table. I see MacKinnon as more similar to McDavid and Draisaitl, while Auston has a different kind of release / "nose for the net", that those other two centres don't posses. He's just more of a shooter.

 

[Paul4587]

I think Matthews has been really good defensively this year, particularly under Keefe. His positioning in the d-zone is far better than I've ever seen it, he's often breaking up chances in the high danger areas and spends more time closer to the net than he did under Babcock (partly due to coaching philosophy). Pretty common now to see highlight packages of his defensive play during games, that was very rare in the past. I do agree that in his 2nd and 3rd seasons he was lackadaisical at times with his defense.

Highlight packages are all well and good but I used to see highlight packages of Fowlers good defensive plays back when he wasn’t particularly good in his own zone - it was the broadcast team trying to put him over to the fans. Even for the worst players you can put together a package of a few good things they do in a game.

Matthews is better defensively than he was but he’s far from “really good defensively” he’s somewhere around average. Which isn’t a bad thing, he’s arguably the best goal scorer in the league, he doesn’t need to be really good defensively to still be among the leagues top 10 forwards.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Highlight packages are all well and good but I used to see highlight packages of Fowlers good defensive plays back when he wasn’t particularly good in his own zone - it was the broadcast team trying to put him over to the fans. Even for the worst players you can put together a package of a few good things they do in a game.

Matthews is better defensively than he was but he’s far from “really good defensively” he’s somewhere around average. Which isn’t a bad thing, he’s arguably the best goal scorer in the league, he doesn’t need to be really good defensively to still be among the leagues top 10 forwards.

There's a chart on the previous page that literally shows he's been above-average defensively this year. I'm just saying he's been good in the eye test as well.

 

[Paul4587]

There's a chart on the previous page that literally shows he's been above-average defensively this year. I'm just saying he's been good in the eye test as well.

And if you pulled up that chart for William Nylander for this season it would say he is above average defensively and is better than Matthews in that aspect. Those charts are ok assessment tools but I question how much context is actually factored in.

I watch a lot of Leafs games and my eye test still sees him disinterested at times along the boards and out of position. They other week against the Ducks Terry who is 150 pounds soaking wet outmuscled and outhussled him along the wall and Matthews eventually gave up trying to defend him. Those types of things still happen for too often for him to be considered above average defensively.

 

[nabob]

Mac. More complete player, has the ability to single handedly take over the game and doesn’t have the motivational issues of Matthews which Leaf fans have expressed concern over.

 

[Dekes For Days]

doesn’t have the motivational issues of Matthews

There are no motivational issues with Matthews.

 

[nabob]

There are no motivational issues with Matthews.

Leaf fans have in many threads cited that for how his two way game went from being good in his rookie year under Babs, and then went in the crapper. Now under Keefe he seems motivated again. That’s not my word, that’s the word from many leafs fans here...the ones who are able to objective and honest anyway.

 

[BlueBaron]

Leaf fans have in many threads cited that for how his two way game went from being good in his rookie year under Babs, and then went in the crapper. Now under Keefe he seems motivated again. That’s not my word, that’s the word from many leafs fans here...the ones who are able to objective and honest anyway.

objective and honest = agree with me

What you are describing is certainly not a mainstream opinion among Leaf fans.

 

[nabob]

objective and honest = agree with me

What you are describing is certainly not a mainstream opinion among Leaf fans.

I have no horse in this race. Just repeating what I have read over and over again from Leaf fans on here. It refreshing to read an honest opinion once and a while on here. Most fans are such homers and insist their teams players are Gods on skates who never do anything bad.

Also, why would die hard Leaf fans and Matthews fans make up things that are negative about their favorite team...

I’d say Matthews is easily a top 10 player in the league where as Mac is top 3.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That’s not my word, that’s the word from many leafs fans here...

Falsely claiming that other people said your unsubstantiated opinion doesn't make it any more true.

 

[nabob]

Falsely claiming that other people said your unsubstantiated opinion doesn't make it any more true.

nothing false about it lol. Maybe you should be arguing with Leaf fans instead of me.

anyways this is a silly thread. Matthews isn’t on Mac’s level.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Maybe you should be arguing with Leaf fans instead of me.

You are bringing forth an unsubstantiated opinion, not some imaginary "Leaf fan".

Matthews isn’t on Mac’s level.

He is.

 

[Mikenusca]

You are bringing forth an unsubstantiated opinion, not some imaginary "Leaf fan".

He is.

You accuse @nabob then chose to do the same thing.

 

[Dache]

You are bringing forth an unsubstantiated opinion, not some imaginary "Leaf fan".

He is.

This only took about 5 minutes, but let me guess? These are all fake leaf fans?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

He's just more of a shooter.

Sorry but I had to stop and reply to this. Nathan MacKinnon shoots the puck. He shoots the puck more than anyone other than Ovechkin. Over the past 3 seasons, Ovechkin has 974 shots on goal and MacK 909, and they're #1 and 2. Matthews may be more of a sniper which is probably what you meant. MacK peppers the net.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Not gunna hate on Matthews. Guy can goals like few in the league. But its still Mackinnon pretty easily for me.

 

[Zenos]

Sorry but I had to stop and reply to this. Nathan MacKinnon shoots the puck. He shoots the puck more than anyone other than Ovechkin. Over the past 3 seasons, Ovechkin has 974 shots on goal and MacK 909, and they're #1 and 2. Matthews may be more of a sniper which is probably what you meant. MacK peppers the net.

You're right. It's not so much just the volume, but like I wrote the "release" and having a "nose for the net" (ie. getting into position for a pass, and shooting from the right spots). Again, in a vacuum, I take Mac. But (and this is obviously just my opinion) I like Mathews more as a goalscorer.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You accuse @nabob then chose to do the same thing.

No I didn't. I didn't falsely claim that other people did or said things to avoid having to answer to anything I say myself. I also have substantiated my position in this thread multiple times.

 

[dustybreaks]

No I didn't. I didn't falsely claim that other people did or said things to avoid having to answer to anything I say myself. I also have substantiated my position in this thread multiple times.

You must of missed the part where someone laid out posts literally characterizing what he had said.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

MacKinnon.

Not even debatable. Game breaking speed changes everything.