Proposal: MacKinnon for Hanifin +

[HockeyHead21]

He may have been sitting there half the season watching Duchene. But there is no evidence whatsoever that any of the magic beans he had in his pocket to pay for that cow had Hanifin's name on them. He probably had beans with the names "Bean" or "Fleury" or "Gauthier" or "1st" in his pocket instead.

Then he needs to spend his time more wisely next season.

 

[MinJaBen]

Then he needs to spend his time more wisely next season.

This kills me.

Avs Fans: "There is no way we trade this piece at all or for those pieces."

Canes Fans: "Well, we don't want to trade this piece for that piece."

Avs Fans: "Well, now YOU are being unreasonable. You should just accept this trade."​

You don't want to trade McKinnon or Rantanan for what we have. Fine. But don't expect us not to have our own requirements and values. If we are trading Hanifin or Slavin or Faulk, it is not for some guy with two years left on his contract and who just **** the bed. You set your conditions, we'll set ours.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

This kills me.

Avs Fans: "There is no way we trade this piece at all or for those pieces."

Canes Fans: "Well, we don't want to trade this piece for that piece."

Avs Fans: "Well, now YOU are being unreasonable. You should just accept this trade."​

You don't want to trade McKinnon or Rantanan for what we have. Fine. But don't expect us not to have our own requirements and values. If we are trading Hanifin or Slavin or Faulk, it is not for some guy with two years left on his contract and who just **** the bed. You set your conditions, we'll set ours.

I don't think any Avs fan would see Duchene, Rantanen, Jost or others as unacceptable for Hanifin. It's when you say Duchene + Rantanen + Jost or Rantanen + Jost or go after MacKinnon.

If you want MacKinnon, offer up someone better than Hanifin or add to Hanifin the way you want us to add to Duchene.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I don't think any Avs fan would see Duchene, Rantanen, Jost or others as unacceptable for Hanifin. It's when you say Duchene + Rantanen + Jost or Rantanen + Jost or go after MacKinnon.

If you want MacKinnon, offer up someone better than Hanifin or add to Hanifin the way you want us to add to Duchene.

You just need to add an extension to Duchene to get that done.

 

[strictlyrandy]

You just need to add an extension to Duchene to get that done.

Doesn't understand when extensions can be signed apparently. Like it or not, 2 years is plenty of term.

 

[caniac247]

Unless GMRF can either trade for a veteran top 4 defensemen or sign one via free agency, I don't see Hanifin being traded.

But let's say he's able to get a veteran top 4 defensemen, then what about something along the lines of Hanifin for Landy?

Personally i'd much rather have Landy than Duchene. I don't see Mackinnon going anyway, so not even bothering discussing him.

 

[tucker3434]

Unless GMRF can either trade for a veteran top 4 defensemen or sign one via free agency, I don't see Hanifin being traded.

But let's say he's able to get a veteran top 4 defensemen, then what about something along the lines of Hanifin for Landy?

Personally i'd much rather have Landy than Duchene. I don't see Mackinnon going anyway, so not even bothering discussing him.

Sure. I'd trade pretty much anyone on the roster not named MacKinnon for Hanifin.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Doesn't understand when extensions can be signed apparently. Like it or not, 2 years is plenty of term.

Whooooosh. Let me spell it out for you. What needs to be added to Duchene to get us on board for Hanifin? An extension. An extension can't be done. Then nothing can be added to Duchene to get Hanifin. Got it bud?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Doesn't understand when extensions can be signed apparently. Like it or not, 2 years is plenty of term.

For 7 years of a cost controlled top 4 (top pairing) defenseman???

No, it is not plenty of term.

Duchene will walk, will be traded for peanuts at deadline 2019, or will have to be paid an arm and a leg to keep. All for the low cost of Noah Hanifin.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

You just need to add an extension to Duchene to get that done.

Why is it impossible to bring a guy in, show him your franchise is on the way up, and re-sign him yourself? The assumption that players with leave at UFA on the Canes makes no sense.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I love the insinuation that the Canes would be the only ones taking any risk in this hypothetical trade. Hanifin is a sure thing stud 1D, but Duchene extending in Carolina is a near impossibility, right?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I love the insinuation that the Canes would be the only ones taking any risk in this hypothetical trade. Hanifin is a sure thing stud 1D, but Duchene extending in Carolina is a near impossibility, right?

I don't think that's the insinuation at all. It's not that we don't acknowledge that risk, it's that most Canes fans are not comfortable with that risk with Duchene's contract, where-as it seems most Avs fans are comfortable with the risk of Hanifin developing. If we thought it was a reasonable risk, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Of course, what we think is irrelevant in the end. Hanifin for Duchene very well could happen if Francis is comfortable with the risk. Based on what Friedman said at the deadline, it "appears" he is not though.

 

[Brock Anton]

I love the insinuation that the Canes would be the only ones taking any risk in this hypothetical trade. Hanifin is a sure thing stud 1D, but Duchene extending in Carolina is a near impossibility, right?

Even if Hanifin never becomes a #1, you'd still get a top 4 defenseman out of the trade. If/when Duchene walks, we'd get nothing.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Even if Hanifin never becomes a #1, you'd still get a top 4 defenseman out of the trade. If/when Duchene walks, we'd get nothing.

If Hanifin struggles after the trade and ends up going the Luke Schenn route, and Duchene extends with Carolina, we'd be the guys who gave up a 1C for a bottom pairing D who was once highly touted. Pessimistic hypotheticals can go both ways.

 

[Brock Anton]

If Hanifin struggles after the trade and ends up going the Luke Schenn route, and Duchene extends with Carolina, we'd be the guys who gave up a 1C for a bottom pairing D who was once highly touted. Pessimistic hypotheticals can go both ways.

Yes, you have risk on your end, but the risk on our end is exponentially greater. Surely you can see/agree to that?

 

[Roboturner913]

Hanifin is a sure thing stud 1D, but Duchene extending in Carolina is a near impossibility, right?

I don't feel quite as strongly about this issue as some of my fellow Canes fans, but surely you can see the rationale for a small-payroll team wanting to keep its assets under team control for as long as possible, do you not? You also have to realize, this is the same franchise that traded away Chris Pronger at 20 years old.

Personally, I'd be OK with a Hanifin-for-Duchene deal if certain considerations were met, but surely you can try to understand why some others might not be.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Yes, you have risk on your end, but the risk on our end is exponentially greater. Surely you can see/agree to that?

Wait, taking on a 26 year old #1C who has the 5th most ES points among all NHL centres in the last 4 years, is the best faceoff man in the NHL and is good enough to be on HC's roster for events like the World Cup and Olympics is "Exponentially Greater" than a team taking on a 20 year old defenseman who hasn't proven to be anything more than a bottom pairing D (if you want to use the final 10 game argument of him improving his game i'll just as easily use a Matt Duchene 10 game sample size of this season where he was a PPG player) . All because he may not re-sign in time to be a Cane in the 19/20 season?

Of Course Hanifin's potential is absolutely huge but look at this history of highly rated defenseman at Hanifin's age and how they worked out. Then look at the forwards who have accomplished what Matt Duchene has at his age and tell me how the next 5 years or so went for those players.

There's risk on both sides but to say the risk on Carolina's side is "exponentially greater" is flat out wrong and quite frankly, laughable.

 

[MinJaBen]

I'd do Hanifin for Duchene + Jost/Ratanen/1st in a heartbeat.

Avs wouldn't, so it's asinine.

And it's not that Duchene is worthless. Simply that there is a fatal flaw to Hanifin for Duchene swap that wrecks the entire scheme, otherwise it's nigh perfect for both teams.

This. Getting rid of Hanifin for Duchene plus add on or straight up doesn't work for cost controlled issues for the Canes. Add on a very good forward with lots of cost controlled years left, we'd do it. But we know the Avs won't.

 

[GoldiFox]

Wait, taking on a 26 year old #1C who has the 5th most ES points among all NHL centres in the last 4 years, is the best faceoff man in the NHL and is good enough to be on HC's roster for events like the World Cup and Olympics is "Exponentially Greater" than a team taking on a 20 year old defenseman who hasn't proven to be anything more than a bottom pairing D (if you want to use the final 10 game argument of him improving his game i'll just as easily use a Matt Duchene 10 game sample size of this season where he was a PPG player) . All because he may not re-sign in time to be a Cane in the 19/20 season?

Of Course Hanifin's potential is absolutely huge but look at this history of highly rated defenseman at Hanifin's age and how they worked out. Then look at the forwards who have accomplished what Matt Duchene has at his age and tell me how the next 5 years or so went for those players.

There's risk on both sides but to say the risk on Carolina's side is "exponentially greater" is flat out wrong and quite frankly, laughable.

Duchene is 45th among forwards in ES points and 75th in ESP/60 over the past 2 full years if were talking about sample sizes. Not exactly a home-run 1C in his prime.

Would like to have Duchene but only at the price of Fleury+ or Bean+.

 

[Brock Anton]

Wait, taking on a 26 year old #1C who has the 5th most ES points among all NHL centres in the last 4 years, is the best faceoff man in the NHL and is good enough to be on HC's roster for events like the World Cup and Olympics is "Exponentially Greater" than a team taking on a 20 year old defenseman who hasn't proven to be anything more than a bottom pairing D (if you want to use the final 10 game argument of him improving his game i'll just as easily use a Matt Duchene 10 game sample size of this season where he was a PPG player) . All because he may not re-sign in time to be a Cane in the 19/20 season?

Of Course Hanifin's potential is absolutely huge but look at this history of highly rated defenseman at Hanifin's age and how they worked out. Then look at the forwards who have accomplished what Matt Duchene has at his age and tell me how the next 5 years or so went for those players.

There's risk on both sides but to say the risk on Carolina's side is "exponentially greater" is flat out wrong and quite frankly, laughable.

Okay, but if Hanifin hasn't proven to be anything other than a bottom pairing defenseman (which he hasn't but I digress), why are Avs fans so desperate to get him in return for a 26-year old #1C who has the 5th most ES points among all NHL centres in the last 4 years, is the best faceoff man in the NHL and is good enough to be on HC's roster for events like the World Cup and Olympics? Seems a little bit of an underwhelming return, no?

Yes, our risk is "exponentially greater" because there is a legitimate chance that the player we're acquiring isn't even on the team in 2 seasons. We have everything to lose here. You'd have Hanifin under team control for at least 4-5 years and the odds of him not showing any growth are minuscule. Even then, you still get a 3-4 defenseman for the foreseeable future. Something is always better than nothing.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yes, you have risk on your end, but the risk on our end is exponentially greater. Surely you can see/agree to that?

I agree there is risk on both sides. Not sure how you quantify it to make it "exponentially greater" for the Canes. Is there risk that Duchene might not re-sign? Yes. But, with the dearth of high profile UFAs that have changed teams recently, I'd say that risk is pretty low.

So, it comes down to whether Duchene returns to form for the Canes, and whether Hanifin ends up being close to as good as projected for the Avs. I'd say the risk is about the same on both sides here, but Hanifin is still mostly potential, while Duchene is much more proven. I've seen too many high potential D fail to live up to expectations to say Hanifin is "exponentially" more likely to become a proven top 4D than Duchene is to return to being a 60+ point 1C with elite FO skills.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I'm curious now. How often do star players that get traded within 2 years of UFA leave their teams? Maybe being Friday I can't think of good examples, but I get the feeling it's less than those that do sign.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Okay, but if Hanifin hasn't proven to be anything other than a bottom pairing defenseman (which he hasn't but I digress), why are Avs fans so desperate to get him in return for a 26-year old #1C who has the 5th most ES points among all NHL centres in the last 4 years, is the best faceoff man in the NHL and is good enough to be on HC's roster for events like the World Cup and Olympics? Seems a little bit of an underwhelming return, no?

Yes, our risk is "exponentially greater" because there is a legitimate chance that the player we're acquiring isn't even on the team in 2 seasons. We have everything to lose here. You'd have Hanifin under team control for at least 4-5 years and the odds of him not showing any growth are minuscule. Even then, you still get a 3-4 defenseman for the foreseeable future. Something is always better than nothing.

Are you suggesting that Ron Francis wouldn't be able to get anything of value in return for Duchene at the 2019 TDL assuming Duchene hasn't signed an extension to stay in Carolina by then? If something is always better than nothing, wouldn't that be the more likely worst case scenario?

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I'm curious now. How often do star players that get traded within 2 years of UFA leave their teams? Maybe being Friday I can't think of good examples, but I get the feeling it's less than those that do sign.

I attempted and couldn't find an easy way to look this up.

I think all of this speaks more to Canes fans, their franchise, and their faith in a "star" player signing or re-signing there.

No one has brought up Duchene's potential stats on a contract year(s) too. I would hope for the next two years he is in balls out mode playing incredibly.

Also, good chance Skinner will play with Duchene and/or MacKinnon at the World Championships. Will be interesting to watch chemistry there.

 

[Brock Anton]

Are you suggesting that Ron Francis wouldn't be able to get anything of value in return for Duchene at the 2019 TDL assuming Duchene hasn't signed an extension to stay in Carolina by then? If something is always better than nothing, wouldn't that be the more likely worst case scenario?

That's true, but it would almost certainly be for less than ideal value as he'd be a pure rental. So, yes, you are correct. Trading a pending UFA Duchene at the '19 TDL is probably the more likely worst case.