Proposal: MacKinnon for Hanifin +

[Chan790]

Does Duchene have some terminal cancer that I don't know about? I always hear this "2 years of Duchene" thing, without the realization behind it that Buffalo traded WAY MORE for LESS of Ryan O'Reilly, and then just signed him themselves like any other capable organization would do.

Duchene cannot be offered an extension until the last 365 days of his current contract...for the Canes that's a dealbreaker.

Someone asked "What would the Avs have to add to Duchene to get Hanifin?" After forcing myself to think of + for Duch to get Hanifin on my lunch-break walk...I've settled on Jost and Rantanen. If that's too rich, you can take Duchene out and we'll just take Jost and Rantanen. Or you can trade us MacKinnon for Hanifin, like we asked for in the first place. Point is, Hanifin will cost you top-line youth.

That's not Duchene. He's not part of the offer that gets you Hanifin.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Maybe contract terms weren’t discussed, I don’t know, but I would be really surprised if Tim Murray had just blindly paid the price he did for ROR without some idea of his willingness to extend in Buffalo.

Now, maybe Carolina could get some assurance from Duchene’s camp, but they wouldn’t have the ability to actually get a signature on paper until July 2018. That’s a long time to wait. If things don’t go well in 17-18 and he changes his mind, Carolina will have given up a core defensive piece for the diluted return Duchene would get at that point.

I still don't see a deal between these two teams at this point, unless the price on Duchene comes down to Bean/Fleury+++. I'm not arguing that Colorado should make that move, just to be clear.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

IIRC Murray refuted reports that he had a guarentee of a signature from O'Reily before the trade, boldly claiming that he had no clue if O'Reily was going to do so.

Which, in any case, is still stupid.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Duchene cannot be offered an extension until the last 365 days of his current contract...for the Canes that's a dealbreaker.

Someone asked "What would the Avs have to add to Duchene to get Hanifin?" After forcing myself to think of + for Duch to get Hanifin on my lunch-break walk...I've settled on Jost and Rantanen. If that's too rich, you can take Duchene out and we'll just take Jost and Rantanen. Or you can trade us MacKinnon for Hanifin, like we asked for in the first place. Point is, Hanifin will cost you top-line youth.

That's not Duchene. He's not part of the offer that gets you Hanifin.

Jost and Rantanen are worth more than Hanifin, so what you're saying is don't bother?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Jost and Rantanen are worth more than Hanifin, so what you're saying is don't bother?

Funny.

Though they're clearly not the + in a hypothetical Hanifin for Duchene swap.

 

[Chan790]

Jost and Rantanen are worth more than Hanifin, so what you're saying is don't bother?

Essentially.

Hanifin (almost certainly with a +) costs MacKinnon. There's no Duchene deal there.

It'd be like if the Canes repeatedly asked what they had to add to Jake Bean to get MacKinnon. There's just no deal there, no matter how much we'd like there to be.

 

[chet1926]

1. MacK isn't moving, don't care what the offer is he is not the player that will be shipped out. Was clearly our best statistical forward this season by a country mile. Rantanen had a good year but his sheer numbers weren't as good as MacK.

2. If you are interested in a young forward both Duchene and Landeskog would be available. Duchene for Hanifin or Faulk 1 for 1 IMO is pretty close to fair value. I do understand controllability, and Hanfin does have more of that. But on the flip side Hanifin hasn't really proven anything to show he can take the next step to become a top pairing guy. As of right now he is a middle pairing guy with potential, lots of players over the years have had the potential to reach that top pairing status that just couldn't do it. Not saying this is Hanifin, but Canes fans need to lay off the top pairing rhetoric as he only has the potential at the moment. Avs fans need to also lay off the quality 1C stuff as well. Duchene isn't a 40pts guy like he was this year. But he also isn't a top end 1C either. He is a 55-65pts guy with high end face off ability. He is a 1C, but he is on the low end of that spectrum.

3. Landeskog would require a smaller payment than Duchene. If the Canes want a cheaper but still decent quality offensive alternative to Duchene, Landy should be the guy to look at. Not saying he is going to be super cheap, but he will require less in a trade situation.

4. IMO Canes and Avs are good trading partners. Canes have a surplus of young D players/prospects, Avs have some youngish quality forwards that are being shopped. It's just a matter of finding a common ground on what the value of all the players is.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Does Duchene have some terminal cancer that I don't know about? I always hear this "2 years of Duchene" thing, without the realization behind it that Buffalo traded WAY MORE for LESS of Ryan O'Reilly, and then just signed him themselves like any other capable organization would do.

Dont come into a Canes thread with common sense. It is assumed that every player will leave when it is UFA time!

 

[strictlyrandy]

Today I learned that a 26 year old 1C isn't top line youth. Also.. suggesting that it would take Jost AND Rantanen along with Duchene to get Hanifin is beyond ludicrous. Then following that up with implying that Duchene has no value is just asinine.

 

[Avs44]

The cost for Hanifin is now Duchene, AND Rantanen, AND Jost, according to one Canes fan? Oh, that's just glorious.

 

[SoulDynasty]

Duchene cannot be offered an extension until the last 365 days of his current contract...for the Canes that's a dealbreaker.

Someone asked "What would the Avs have to add to Duchene to get Hanifin?" After forcing myself to think of + for Duch to get Hanifin on my lunch-break walk...I've settled on Jost and Rantanen. If that's too rich, you can take Duchene out and we'll just take Jost and Rantanen. Or you can trade us MacKinnon for Hanifin, like we asked for in the first place. Point is, Hanifin will cost you top-line youth.

That's not Duchene. He's not part of the offer that gets you Hanifin.

Duchene, Rantanen, and Jost for Hanifin, Aho, and Slavin. Sounds reasonable, unless you want a late round pick for the risky Duchene contract as well. How about it?

 

[Roboturner913]

Duchene, Rantanen, and Jost for Hanifin, Aho, and Slavin. Sounds reasonable, unless you want a late round pick for the risky Duchene contract as well. How about it?

You missed his point, snarky though it was.

 

[McMetal]

There's just no deal to be made here. At a glance, it looks like the team with forwards to sell for D and the team who needs forwards are natural trading partners. But MacKinnon is too young for the Avs to move and Duchene is too old for the Canes, and Rantanen and Jost are untouchable.

I really, really am sick of this conversation. No deal, both sides walk away. I don't want Hanifin, MacK is not for sale at any price, and Duchene can stay an Av if nobody will give up defense for him.

 

[MinJaBen]

There's just no deal to be made here. At a glance, it looks like the team with forwards to sell for D and the team who needs forwards are natural trading partners. But MacKinnon is too young for the Avs to move and Duchene is too old for the Canes, and Rantanen and Jost are untouchable.

I really, really am sick of this conversation. No deal, both sides walk away. I don't want Hanifin, MacK is not for sale at any price, and Duchene can stay an Av if nobody will give up defense for him.

It only took us three pages to get to a deal we both can agree on this time. We are getting better, my friends.

 

[tucker3434]

If age/contract is the biggest factor here, I'd also do a base of Jost, Rantanen, or our 1st, not a combination. But I have a feeling Canes fans are going to say they either aren't skilled and/or developed enough to be the basis for a Hanifin trade. If MacKinnon is the only possible answer, I guess there's just nothing there.

 

[GoldiFox]

If age/contract is the biggest factor here, I'd also do a base of Jost, Rantanen, or our 1st, not a combination. But I have a feeling Canes fans are going to say they either aren't skilled and/or developed enough to be the basis for a Hanifin trade. If MacKinnon is the only possible answer, I guess there's just nothing there.

Hanifin for #1 OA is about even as well, IMO. It would be a bit of a gamble, but I think I would be fine with Hanifin for Hischier/Patrick if the Canes staff felt either had 1C potential. That is assuming that the Avs actually get #1OA.

 

[MinJaBen]

Hanifin for #1 OA is about even as well, IMO. It would be a bit of a gamble, but I think I would be fine with Hanifin for Hischier/Patrick if the Canes staff felt either had 1C potential. That is assuming that the Avs actually get #1OA.

Value might be fine (I personally don't think so, but reasonable minds can disagree), but the goal of trading Noah now is to make us a better team now to get to the playoffs next year. Neither of Hischier/Patrick realistically do that. They are not Matthews/McDavid/Laine type players.

 

[NotOpie]

Hopefully, his rebuild plans come to bearing fruit next season. And one of the keys to small market rebuilds is taking advantage of young NHL talent while still on their first contract. Next year is the last year he probably will be able to afford the top 4 of Hanifin, Faulk, Slavin and Pesce. I just don't think he breaks that up until he has to.

I've seen this argument made before and I'm not sure that's an issue at all. The Canes currently have a grand total of 5 players under contract for the 2018-19 season. The 4 key RFAs that have new deals pending are Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin, and Lindholm. At least 2 of those guys will get longer term deals and the other two will likely get bridged. Even if you paid all of these guys $5 million a year, there's still nearly $30 million for GMRF to work with. Sure he's got to pay attention to Skinner and Faulk's upcoming contracts, but he's got a lot of room to maneuver. Given that there are some youthful assets likely to make the big club over the next two seasons, even a budget team like Carolina isn't really going to be in a salary cap bind any time soon.

Essentially.

Hanifin (almost certainly with a +) costs MacKinnon. There's no Duchene deal there.

It'd be like if the Canes repeatedly asked what they had to add to Jake Bean to get MacKinnon. There's just no deal there, no matter how much we'd like there to be.

I don't think MacKinnon has ever been on the table and it is highly unlikely that Hanifin has been either. But if it were to become the case that either becomes available, I think both Colorado fans and Carolina fans would be surprised. MacKinnon likely doesn't bring the return that the Avs think and Hanifin probably requires a larger add than the Canes think.

If age/contract is the biggest factor here, I'd also do a base of Jost, Rantanen, or our 1st, not a combination. But I have a feeling Canes fans are going to say they either aren't skilled and/or developed enough to be the basis for a Hanifin trade. If MacKinnon is the only possible answer, I guess there's just nothing there.

I believe Rantanen would indeed be the basis for a Hanifin trade. But there's just no way he'd be on the table for a team entering a significant rebuild. Just like Av's fans have said about MacKinnon being a critical piece for a youthful team going forward, Rantanen qualifies similarly.

In the end, while I think the Duchene contract term is a risk Francis was nervous about accepting, my sense is that he didn't want to move any of his young NHL blueliners. I'd be shocked if the roadblock wasn't Sakic's reluctance to take prospects and futures and would be equally shocked if that wasn't the deal Francis offered and CO turned down.

 

[Jarey Curry]

If age/contract is the biggest factor here, I'd also do a base of Jost, Rantanen, or our 1st, not a combination. But I have a feeling Canes fans are going to say they either aren't skilled and/or developed enough to be the basis for a Hanifin trade. If MacKinnon is the only possible answer, I guess there's just nothing there.

Jost + for Hanifin and Duchene for some top 4 d, draft patrick and rebuild is done. Lot of ifs

 

[strictlyrandy]

Jost + for Hanifin and Duchene for some top 4 d, draft patrick and rebuild is done. Lot of ifs

Or... since Hanifin IS some top 4 d... Duchene for Hanifin. It makes sense no matter how many want to deny it.

Keep Jost. Patrick isn't guaranteed. Avs have a strong chance of falling to 4th.

 

[Jarey Curry]

Or... since Hanifin IS some top 4 d... Duchene for Hanifin. It makes sense no matter how many want to deny it.

Keep Jost. Patrick isn't guaranteed. Avs have a strong chance of falling to 4th.

I don't count on avs falling for 4th and Hani wont be traded for Duchene cause of term right? Jost has many years under contract and he's well under way top 6 2way center.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

MacKinnon seems to be in a bit of a rut in Colorado, Carolina has Hanifin on the table. Duchene's contract length seems to be a problem in making a deal work with him, but can a deal be made between these teams?


Noah Hanifin
Teuvo Teravainen


Nathan MacKinnon
Francois Beauchemin

As a Canes fan I would easily do this, but I don't see why Colorado would.

Dont come into a Canes thread with common sense. It is assumed that every player will leave when it is UFA time!

It is assumed that players leaving is always a risk, which it is. Raleigh isn't exactly a hot market for top UFA signings

 

[HockeyHead21]

As a Canes fan I would easily do this, but I don't see why Colorado would.




It is assumed that players leaving is always a risk, which it is. Raleigh isn't exactly a hot market for top UFA signings

Start winning consistently and it could be with your talented backend and farm system in place.

 

[Ararana]

All I'm saying is Joe Nieuwendyk didn't spend what seemed like half the damn season sitting in the Pepsi Center watching Duchene (he admitted directly to BSN before one of the games he was there for Duchene) for nothing. It's possible Carolina was scared off by the term, I wouldn't blame them too much for it, but I'm going to need more than Friedman's guessing to assume they've taken themselves out of it. These two teams match up too damn well for a fwd/D swap.

 

[MinJaBen]

All I'm saying is Joe Nieuwendyk didn't spend what seemed like half the damn season sitting in the Pepsi Center watching Duchene (he admitted directly to BSN before one of the games he was there for Duchene) for nothing. It's possible Carolina was scared off by the term, I wouldn't blame them too much for it, but I'm going to need more than Friedman's guessing to assume they've taken themselves out of it. These two teams match up too damn well for a fwd/D swap.

He may have been sitting there half the season watching Duchene. But there is no evidence whatsoever that any of the magic beans he had in his pocket to pay for that cow had Hanifin's name on them. He probably had beans with the names "Bean" or "Fleury" or "Gauthier" or "1st" in his pocket instead.