M.A. Fleury a Hall of Famer?

[b in vancouver]

There's been better goalies that aren't in The Hall but not sure there's better resumes.

That 2003 class is interesting as the views of it have changed a lot in the last 5 years with Bergeron being the only gimme and then a lot of players you could argue either way about or make a case for.

 

[HabsQC]

In order to be a Hall of Fame goalie on Hfboards criteria, you need 350+ wins, personal hardware and a Stanley Cup. Joseph and Luongo don't have the hardware and the Cup. Fleury doesn't have the hardware. Lundqvist and Miller don't have the Cup. Quick doesn't have the hardware, Ward might not get the wins.

You might never see another goalie in the Hall of fame, unless Bobrovsky, Holtby, Price or Rask win a Cup and another hundred games before they're done. Rinne could win a Cup this year but he still wouldn't have the Vezina, right? That's the standard, right?

Quick has a Conn Smythe. I think that counts as personal hardware

 

[HabsQC]

One thing for sure : if Vegas wins the cup this year, Marc-André will be inducted.

Hell the whole team should be inducted if they win the cup, as well as Gallant. History will be made.

 

[Evincar]

I'm not a big fan of the "He only started for 1 of the Stanley Cups"... There is absolutely no doubt that he was an integral part to each of those cup victories, whether it was his regular season impact, or, as in 2017, he had some really big games that wouldn't have been won with an average backup. My god, he shut out the Washington Capitals in two straight games and made 49 saves against the Columbus Blue Jackets...

If the Penguins go into last year's playoffs with Jarry or some other backup starting they don't make it past the second round.

Even in the 2009 Cup run ( his only win as the undisputed starter) he had a 2.61 GAA, .908 Save % and 0 shutouts which is very poor given that the majority of Cup winning goalies have excellent numbers.

He's a no as it stands now.

 

[Canucks1096]

In order to be a Hall of Fame goalie on Hfboards criteria, you need 350+ wins, personal hardware and a Stanley Cup. Joseph and Luongo don't have the hardware and the Cup. Fleury doesn't have the hardware. Lundqvist and Miller don't have the Cup. Quick doesn't have the hardware, Ward might not get the wins.

You might never see another goalie in the Hall of fame, unless Bobrovsky, Holtby, Price or Rask win a Cup and another hundred games before they're done. Rinne could win a Cup this year but he still wouldn't have the Vezina, right? That's the standard, right?

Quick has the Smythe

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Even in the 2009 Cup run ( his only win as the undisputed starter) he had a 2.61 GAA, .908 Save % and 0 shutouts which is very poor given that the majority of Cup winning goalies have excellent numbers.

He's a no as it stands now.

I don't care about stat-line through the playoffs as much, he made the big saves at the most opportune moments and won huge games when it mattered most. That's more important to me than a stat-line with no game context.

Anyway, I'm not saying he definitely gets in if he retires tomorrow. I just get irked by people who (probably didn't watch each series) but say "oh well, he only started one series". In 2016 he wasn't a factor in the playoffs, but his regular season play was strong, and in 2017 the Penguins do NOT win that cup without Fleury. I don't care what the stat line looks like, they don't win without him.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Even in the 2009 Cup run ( his only win as the undisputed starter) he had a 2.61 GAA, .908 Save % and 0 shutouts which is very poor given that the majority of Cup winning goalies have excellent numbers.

He's a no as it stands now.

Yeah, but the Pens don't win that Cup without Fleury standing on his head in consecutive 2-1 wins in games 6 & 7 against Detroit, either.

 

[ResilientBeast]

He really needs a Vezina, his case is really hurt by those series he let the Pens down and for HHOF purposes he was only really the starter for one of his cups.

If the Knights win it this year, or he wins another cup+vezina down the road he works his way back into the discussion

 

[chethejet]

MAF can play for 3 maybe 4 more years and have wins that are second to Marty. He can have numerous playoff wins and still has 3 cups in his resume. Name me another goalie with that presently or for that matter in the HOF. the list is very small. All goalies for the most part have seasons that are not as good as they hoped. But the question for any HOF goalie did you give your team a chance to win a championship? MAF has done that numerous times. King Henry hasn't, Price well actually never, Bob no playoff win yet. Renne has one good run and maybe 2. Quick certainly has been good most of the time injuries aside. MAF is a HOF goalie right now.

 

[habsgirl5000]

No.....yet Carey Price will be, because he won an olympic gold and he is, well, you know, "the best goalie in the world"

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

MAF can play for 3 maybe 4 more years and have wins that are second to Marty. He can have numerous playoff wins and still has 3 cups in his resume. Name me another goalie with that presently or for that matter in the HOF. the list is very small. All goalies for the most part have seasons that are not as good as they hoped. But the question for any HOF goalie did you give your team a chance to win a championship? MAF has done that numerous times. King Henry hasn't, Price well actually never, Bob no playoff win yet. Renne has one good run and maybe 2. Quick certainly has been good most of the time injuries aside. MAF is a HOF goalie right now.

no, the question for any HOF goaltender is how were you considered against your competitors.

aka, how many times and for how long were you considered either the best or among the 2-3 best at your position. Also how long did your performance also rate at/near the top of your position.

MAF has a big fat NEVER on that one. You dont get into the hall because you were lucky enough to ride Crosby and Malkin's coattails. They are the source of his gaudy wins total + ties no longer existing inflates win totals.

 

[HabsQC]

Even in the 2009 Cup run ( his only win as the undisputed starter) he had a 2.61 GAA, .908 Save % and 0 shutouts which is very poor given that the majority of Cup winning goalies have excellent numbers.

He's a no as it stands now.

9 wins out of 16 last yeat but he wasn't "THE" starter. Poor Marc-Andre, he'll never be recognised at his right value. Will only be the guy who played behind Crosby and Malkin.

That's why I hope he wins it this year.

 

[herashak]

Lol no

 

[end]

If this 'considered the best in a single year' thing means as much as people think it does, it necessitates that Semyon Varlamov is closer to the Hall than Fleury. If any other goalie led the league in playoff wins over a 15 year period (while being second or third in regular season wins), they would be feted, but instead this is to be used against Fleury.

Marc Andre Fleury is 14 wins from passing Martin Brodeur as the leader in 21st century playoff wins. He is currently second and cannot be eclipsed by any remaining goalies this season.

 

[MXD]

If he wins the Cup this year, all while putting a very good performance (at worse)...

He'll make it.

 

[Price is Wright]

Not before Osgood.

 

[MXD]

no, the question for any HOF goaltender is how were you considered against your competitors.

aka, how many times and for how long were you considered either the best or among the 2-3 best at your position. Also how long did your performance also rate at/near the top of your position.

MAF has a big fat NEVER on that one. You dont get into the hall because you were lucky enough to ride Crosby and Malkin's coattails. They are the source of his gaudy wins total + ties no longer existing inflates win totals.

Is it necessary to remind you that Gerry Cheevers made it?

 

[Doctor No]

Is it necessary to remind you that Gerry Cheevers made it?

But Cheevers is in because he "hated to lose". Or something like that.

So few goaltenders these days hate to lose, so it's an obvious induction for Cheevers.

 

[allevat]

Not before Osgood.

Thing is... you could argue them as roughly at the same level now, but barring being taken out by injury, Fleury likely has 3-5 more solid years left. He's already passed Osgood in wins, is only 2 behind in career shutouts, is only a couple of series behind in playoff wins, has an equal number of Cups, and so on. So if you think Osgood is a serious HOF candidate now (and he regularly is considered so in HOF debates outside of HFBoards) then so is Fleury, and he's likely to become even more solidified as such by the end of his career.

I wouldn't say that Fleury is any kind of certain HOFer yet, but any of another Cup, a Vezina, or achieving 500 wins would make him so, IMO. And given this year's performance, none of those seem out of reach. Also, people tend to forget that "playing ability" is only one of four factors the HOF committee considers. Certainly it is the most heavily weighted one, but "sportsmanship, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general" come into it, and that's Fleury in spades, especially given his role in helping to build a new team in Vegas.

 

[Voight]

Thing is... you could argue them as roughly at the same level now, but barring being taken out by injury, Fleury likely has 3-5 more solid years left. He's already passed Osgood in wins, is only 2 behind in career shutouts, is only a couple of series behind in playoff wins, has an equal number of Cups, and so on. So if you think Osgood is a serious HOF candidate now (and he regularly is considered so in HOF debates outside of HFBoards) then so is Fleury, and he's likely to become even more solidified as such by the end of his career.

I wouldn't say that Fleury is any kind of certain HOFer yet, but any of another Cup, a Vezina, or achieving 500 wins would make him so, IMO. And given this year's performance, none of those seem out of reach. Also, people tend to forget that "playing ability" is only one of four factors the HOF committee considers. Certainly it is the most heavily weighted one, but "sportsmanship, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general" come into it, and that's Fleury in spades, especially given his role in helping to build a new team in Vegas.

Thing is Ozzie came in 2nd for the Vezina once, and made the AST.

Aside from his 3 cups, MAF has no serious award recognition of any kind. He can pile up the wins all he wants but voters are going to simply attribute that to 87/71

 

[FrozenJagrt]

There's been better goalies that aren't in The Hall but not sure there's better resumes.

That 2003 class is interesting as the views of it have changed a lot in the last 5 years with Bergeron being the only gimme and then a lot of players you could argue either way about or make a case for.

I mentioned this a year or two ago, that a lot of what made that draft class great was on the verge of falling off a cliff. There's a startling lack of surefire Hall of Fame players for a class touted as highly as it is.

 

[b in vancouver]

I mentioned this a year or two ago, that a lot of what made that draft class great was on the verge of falling off a cliff. There's a startling lack of surefire Hall of Fame players for a class touted as highly as it is.

I've been talking about it for a few years also. For a draft class that pretty much defined the NHL (all due respect to Sid, Geno, Ovy) it just tailed off a lot more than I would've thought.

It's a tonne of extremely excellent players but very few surefire HOFers. (don't hold me to these lists I'm just randomly naming players)

Bergeron is probably the only surefire.
Then there's a group with Getzlaf, Perry, E. Staal, Weber, MAF,
Then Suter, Burns, J. Carter, Vanek
Then D. Brown, Eriksson, Backes, Kesler, Phaneuf, etc.

Losing M. Richards, Zherdev and Horton, etc. and a lot of the players just kinda disappearing before what I would've thought

 

[allevat]

He can pile up the wins all he wants but voters are going to simply attribute that to 87/71

Given he's no longer on the Penguins, that seems unlikely. If he gets to 500, a quarter of those wins will be for another team, and similarly he's now piling up playoff wins and shutouts without any superstars in front of him.

 

[Voight]

There's been better goalies that aren't in The Hall but not sure there's better resumes.

That 2003 class is interesting as the views of it have changed a lot in the last 5 years with Bergeron being the only gimme and then a lot of players you could argue either way about or make a case for.

I think Weber is a surefire HHOF'er, even without a Norris.

Given he's no longer on the Penguins, that seems unlikely. If he gets to 500, a quarter of those wins will be for another team, and similarly he's now piling up playoff wins and shutouts without any superstars in front of him.

Thats a fair point but we both know the voters won't really take that into account.

 

[BigEezyE22]

Yeah, but the Pens don't win that Cup without Fleury standing on his head in consecutive 2-1 wins in games 6 & 7 against Detroit, either.

Where Fleury was a stud in that playoffs was in elimination games.

Pens never trailed amd never surrendered a lead. Gave up a total of 4 goals in 3 games, 2 of which were in garbage time as Pens built a huge lead against the Caps and just wanted to leave Washington with something to hang a banner for.