Player Discussion Logan Brown

[Nac Mac Feegle]

While that may be the logic, look at our bottom 6. We don't have many big guys. Pageau, Pyatt, Burrows, Dzingel are on the smaller side while Smith and Thompson are the guys you'd consider bigger. Pageau and Burrows play hard, tougher than a lot of bigger guys actually. That's why I find it hard to understand this logic of teams generally drafting taller players just because.

Your second point being very true makes it even worse. At least you knew what you had in McLoed, and he was already better than Brown. Can you imagine picking up McAvoy or even Kunin? IDK man this obsession with taller guys from this org. drives me nuts.

A lot of teams are like that...not just Ottawa.

But, it is slowly changing. If the NHL would crack down again on hooking, holding, interference, and get stickwork under control....and make a commitment to keep it up long-term, then we'll see a real culture shift.

 

[Larionov]

But I still have alot of hope for Brown. The upcoming season will be a pivotal one for his career.

I am in the same boat - I haven't given up on the kid at all. Those bigger bodied guys often take more time to mature physically. In fact, you want to beware of the guys like Curtis Lazar, who matured early, looked great in junior hockey, but had no particular dominating skill to take into the NHL. 6'6" guys with soft hands do not grow on trees, so Brown will get plenty of time from the organization to develop. If he has a dominating season this year, last year will be quickly forgotten...

 

[The Lewler]

Are they ?

If you look at our last 9 1st overall pick, Karlsson ( was he like 5'10 ), Cowen 6'5, Zibanejad 6'2 Ceci 6,3, Lazar 6'0 Chabot 6'2, White 6'0, Brown, 6'6, Bower 6'0 i think.

Than we have with some recent 2nd round pick Chlapik 6'1, Gagne 6'6, Dahlen 5'11, Formenton 6'2

I don't see the obsession here. There is a good mix of normal size combine with guy with higher size.

Yes they are.

Small high skill guys are the easiest to find.

Big men with skill are exceedingly rare.

Do I think Logan Brown is an elite big skill guy? Probably not but we dont know yet.

Do I know that Ottawa and every other org will draft 5'10-6'1 skill guys every year and they all blend together interchangeably ? Yes

Karlsson and McDavid are magical outliers just like Lemieux and Lindros were magical outliers.

 

[Knave]

I agree. I worry his size will be a negative in terms of panning out as a top 6 guy. You look at the skill guys and they are average NHL height for most part. 5'10 to 6'3. When you think big Lemieux and Thornton are exceptions to guys like Boyle, Antropov, etc... who are more third line with fill-in capabilities in top 6 if required.

 

[Sensinitis]

Brown has better hands and skating than many people much shorter than him... his size doesn't hinder his game at all. In fact, if he learns to use that size more to his advantage that's when he'll start truly breaking out.

 

[Hale The Villain]

His size isn't a huge advantage right now, cause he's still skinny and needs to fill out his frame.

When he does fill out, he could be an absolute beast down low and in the corners ala Getzlaf.

 

[Xspyrit]

Regardless of what happens with Brown, the Sens really needed a prospect like him. He has true #1 Center potential. Of course he is boom or bust because if he was blue chip he would have been taken top-5, even top-3

Many people have complained that the Sens don't take much risks in their first round picks. Logan Brown is the pure definition of what those people wanted.

 

[The Lewler]

Regardless of what happens with Brown, the Sens really needed a prospect like him. He has true #1 Center potential. Of course he is boom or bust because if he was blue chip he would have been taken top-5, even top-3

Many people have complained that the Sens don't take much risks in their first round picks. Logan Brown is the pure definition of what those people wanted.

I agree with this.

 

[JungleBeat]

Not going to lie I was ecstatic when we drafted him. I wanted Chychrun,Brown or Rubstov when we went up to the podium.

 

[Samsquanch]

Regardless of what happens with Brown, the Sens really needed a prospect like him. He has true #1 Center potential. Of course he is boom or bust because if he was blue chip he would have been taken top-5, even top-3

Many people have complained that the Sens don't take much risks in their first round picks. Logan Brown is the pure definition of what those people wanted.

Yup. Great post.

Although it would probably be just out luck that the one time we pass on the sure thing with low upside (Mcleod) for the boom/buster that the worst possible case happens, and we see Mcleod turn into Bergeron or something stupid like that...

Yes, I'm starting to become a little jaded about our luck with prospects...

We need at least one or two of the kids to break out in a huge way if we have any hope of winning while EK is in his prime.

Unless miracles happen and Tavares is traded and/or signed here, we are never going to land the caliber or forward that the team needs through free agency.

It's going to have to come from within, and Brown and White are our best hope for that at the moment.

 

[OD99]

Chabot is our guy to be high impact.

White will be a nice upgrade and bring pieces of a game we need and I believe all teams need to win.

Then we have a host of others who could surprise. I am still high on Perron as he seems like a classic example of a player who needs time to adjust before his real skills come out.

Chlapik...Jaros also intrigue me and it seems like we may have gotten some nice value in this past draft too.

I am optimistic by nature but I really think our team will be improving for the next few years as our internal pieces mature.

I juat hope our pro scout department doesn't do us in with bad advice on trades...there is some pessimism for those of you who lean more that way.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Regardless of what happens with Brown, the Sens really needed a prospect like him. He has true #1 Center potential. Of course he is boom or bust because if he was blue chip he would have been taken top-5, even top-3

Many people have complained that the Sens don't take much risks in their first round picks. Logan Brown is the pure definition of what those people wanted.

Ya but when they aren't ppg in the nhl 1 season after they're drafted. They're busts.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yup. Great post.

Although it would probably be just out luck that the one time we pass on the sure thing with low upside (Mcleod) for the boom/buster that the worst possible case happens, and we see Mcleod turn into Bergeron or something stupid like that...

Yes, I'm starting to become a little jaded about our luck with prospects...

We need at least one or two of the kids to break out in a huge way if we have any hope of winning while EK is in his prime.

Unless miracles happen and Tavares is traded and/or signed here, we are never going to land the caliber or forward that the team needs through free agency.

It's going to have to come from within, and Brown and White are our best hope for that at the moment.

Thanks.

Luck is more related to injuries (Maidens, Cowen, Noesen, Burgess) or other situations (Wikstrand, M. Karlsson, Da Costa)... because the other important part is development, and it seems like the Sens have been good at that. As long as they don't change Murray's scouting and development staff, I am a bit optimistic but I must admit that Dorion scares me. He is a rookie GM, does he have anywhere the contacts or even the approach that Murray had? I am looking at his signings and trades and it doesn't make me super confident...

And don't worry too much about finding higher end talent. Look at where we got our best players :

- Karlsson at 15th OA (Murray even traded the 18th pick + 3rd to grab EK)

- Stone in the 6th round, not many expected him to be that good. We discovered that in 2014-15

- Hoffman in the 5th round. He was not supposed to amount to much, but finally broke out in a big way.

- Turris in a trade for a guy who was drafted 17th OA (acquired by trade for our 16th OA pick the following year) and a 2nd. Turris was a former 3rd OA pick.

- Ryan in a trade. To get him we traded a player drafted in the 2nd round, a 1st round pick (unfortunately ended up higher than expected, although it was a weak draft) and an injury-riddled former 21st OA pick

- Brassard in a trade. He was a former 6th OA pick, and we traded a former 6th OA pick and a 2nd to get him (highest pick we got since Spezza in 2001, who was a pick acquired in a trade)

- Anderson in a trade for a goalie who was not working out in Ottawa (a former 9th round pick).


Sure, generational players (although we got one) and Elite players are harder (although you could consider Stone as an Elite winger, the "Bergeron of Wingers") to get because most of the time you can only get them in the top-5 of the draft. We never draft there...

IMO, we got 1 generational talent and 2 high end talents (Stone and Hoffman) as well as 2 other great talents (Turris and Ryan). Ryan used to be a consistent high end talent but hasn't been the last few years because of health issues. But when he is healthy and on his game, he is a high end talent (like last playoffs). Like you said Chabot should also be a high end talent and maybe White and/or Brown too (or great talents, hard to say for now). But I wouldn't sleep on the rest of the pool, some guys there could end up pretty good.

Ya but when they aren't ppg in the nhl 1 season after they're drafted. They're busts.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Didn't we lose a couple of scouts lately....to Vegas, and one other team?

 

[SixthSens]

Didn't we lose a couple of scouts lately....to Vegas, and one other team?

Might be thinking of Greg Royce, who jumped over to Buffalo to become their Amateur Scouting Director but was just recently fired when Tim Murray was shown the door too.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Didn't we lose a couple of scouts lately....to Vegas, and one other team?

And the other would be Bob Lowes, who's Vegas' Assistant Director of Player Personnel.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Might be thinking of Greg Royce, who jumped over to Buffalo to become their Amateur Scouting Director but was just recently fired when Tim Murray was shown the door too.

And the other would be Bob Lowes, who's Vegas' Assistant Director of Player Personnel.

Those are the ones. That's quite a hit to the team in a fairly short timeframe. Add in the rearrangement of a few scouts (I think the US based one moved to Europe, iirc?), and the Dorion promotion.

 

[SPF6ty9]

If there's one guy Brown has always made me think of in terms of play style and development curve it is Ryan Johansen, Mr. 8 million himself. I'm willing to write off last year to injuries but I expect Brown to have a similar jump this year that Johansen did in his draft +1 year and if that happens it wouldn't be unreasonable to see Brown in the NHL in some capacity in 2018/19. If not, then the chances of anything happening for Brown really drop.

 

[Micklebot]

If there's one guy Brown has always made me think of in terms of play style and development curve it is Ryan Johansen, Mr. 8 million himself. I'm willing to write off last year to injuries but I expect Brown to have a similar jump this year that Johansen did in his draft +1 year and if that happens it wouldn't be unreasonable to see Brown in the NHL in some capacity in 2018/19. If not, then the chances of anything happening for Brown really drop.

Interesting comparison. Johansen to me always seemed like a guy who if and when he dialed it up, he'd be fantastic, but was really inconsistent because you never knew which Johansen to expect, but when he was on, he had the hands and size to bull his way to scoring positions.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Interesting comparison. Johansen to me always seemed like a guy who if and when he dialed it up, he'd be fantastic, but was really inconsistent because you never knew which Johansen to expect, but when he was on, he had the hands and size to bull his way to scoring positions.

It is. We seem to forget we are dealing with teenagers and early 20somethings here. Some kids mature (mentally) faster than others. I think in Johansens case, the contract squabbles, public riff with Tortorella and subsequent trade is what really brought him around. We might see the same curve with Brown, where it might take until 21-22 to click.

For me, Brown is following the same track (more or less) that Spezza did as a junior. High end skills, but doesn't quite fit the junior mold. You have to figure, when a kid thinks the game at a completely different level than his teammates, that sometimes it's hard to mech with the different skill sets (or 'play down' to them).

 

[Sens Rule]

His size isn't a huge advantage right now, cause he's still skinny and needs to fill out his frame.

When he does fill out, he could be an absolute beast down low and in the corners ala Getzlaf.

Size is an advantage in so many ways aside from physicality. The long reach and skating stride of a tall player can have big advantages.

He is never going to be Getzlaf like. He is not a banger at all. No Spezza or Spezza lite is what he is most likely going to be like if he works out. That is the big framed centre with a long reach and hockey sense. He is just not a tough guy grinder type like Getzlaf. He never will be and I doubt anyone expects him to be.

 

[starling]

If he turns it around he could be our own Martin Hanzal one day.

 

[Micklebot]

If he turns it around he could be our own Martin Hanzal one day.

If he can be a less injury prone Hanzal, that would imo be a fantastic pick even though that's not the player I envision Brown becoming, nor the one that we really need.

 

[topshelf15]

Didnt Brown start at some crazy pace last season. before he got hurt??I think it was like 30 some points in his first 13 games or so .That alone makes me excited .Kid needs to be a little meaner against people wanting to hack and whack at him .

 

[BondraTime]

If he can be a less injury prone Hanzal, that would imo be a fantastic pick even though that's not the player I envision Brown becoming, nor the one that we really need.

Aside from height, they are pretty much polar opposites