Player Discussion Logan Brown

[mcnorth]

Just realized Logan Brown is Jeff Brown's son. I played some summer hockey with Jeff Brown when he was an instructor at Mac MacLean's hockey school in Arnprior back in the early 90's when I was doing the jr hockey thing. Spent some time one-on-one with him just blasting away shots on me from the point. You learn pretty quick the difference between the jr shooters and the pros. Felt like they were shot out of a cannon. Really excited about Brown and White. Sure do hope they work out.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Is it a Lorenzo's pizza franchise? Or it's own thing. I was never a fan of the franchises.

I don't believe it is a franchise.

Just go for it.

 

[Micklebot]

Is it a Lorenzo's pizza franchise? Or it's own thing. I was never a fan of the franchises.

I think it`s independent, but I could be wrong.

It`s the only Lorenzo`s I`ll go to though, and just to keep this on topic, the only one I can imagine Logan Brown frequenting when visiting his father.

 

[BomaLightDevils]

Is this the thread were you talk about L. Brown or is that in another one?

 

[Blarginator]

Is this the thread were you talk about L. Brown or is that in another one?

We mainly use the Sticky Sens prospect thread but this one is fine if you want to talk about Brown specifically.

 

[TheNewEra]

https://twitter.com/Ziggy_14/status/890226232805253121

Thought this was interesting, he is shooting from the high impact areas and shoots a lot but the production isnt there as of yet. From what I remember he was dealing with some injury issues last season so hopefully he improves this season

 

[starling]

Thought this was interesting, he is shooting from the high impact areas and shoots a lot but the production isnt there as of yet. From what I remember he was dealing with some injury issues last season so hopefully he improves this season

Interesting.
I suspected it was bad but not that bad.
Shooting at a slightly higher rate than your average OHL forward is nothing to brag about.
Scoring and assisting at a lower pace than average OHL forward is a major concern for an 11th OA.

 

[Boud]

Interesting.
I suspected it was bad but not that bad.
Shooting at a slightly higher rate than your average OHL forward is nothing to brag about.
Scoring and assisting at a lower pace than average OHL forward is a major concern for an 11th OA.

Definitely. Scoring at a lower pace than OHL average as an 11th OA pick is extremely dissapointing. Not making team USA is another one. Even if he was injured before camp, he still didn't make it when he was back. Usually when they value a player enough he'll make the team despite not playing that much in that year.

I didn't like Brown from the start, as I've said since before the draft I would've drafted McLoed over him and right now both these guys have been trending opposite directions. I'll never understand Dorion wanting to trade Dahlen and then valuing Brown as much as saying he might play some games in the NHL this season. LB has had 1/2 good season so far in his career that warranted him being a 1rst rounder but other than that he was never that highly regarded. Unfortunately that season came right before the draft and we seem to have this obsession with drafting tall guys just because.

 

[aragorn]

Definitely. Scoring at a lower pace than OHL average as an 11th OA pick is extremely dissapointing. Not making team USA is another one. Even if he was injured before camp, he still didn't make it when he was back. Usually when they value a player enough he'll make the team despite not playing that much in that year.

I didn't like Brown from the start, as I've said since before the draft I would've drafted McLoed over him and right now both these guys have been trending opposite directions. I'll never understand Dorion wanting to trade Dahlen and then valuing Brown as much as saying he might play some games in the NHL this season. LB has had 1/2 good season so far in his career that warranted him being a 1rst rounder but other than that he was never that highly regarded. Unfortunately that season came right before the draft and we seem to have this obsession with drafting tall guys just because.

I liked McLeod too but their is no obsession with this team for drafting tall players, I have often argued for them to take bigger & tougher players over European players just like Dahlen. I'm going to guess that they might give Brown 9 games to start the yr just to see where he is & how he can handle himself in a better league with better players. However, due to all the one way contracts I think he goes back to junior for another yr where hopefully he finally gets it & decides to dedicate himself to the sport.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

he had a bad year. I am still optimistic on him. I will be looking for him to be much better this year if he stays healthy.

 

[Micklebot]

Interesting.
I suspected it was bad but not that bad.
Shooting at a slightly higher rate than your average OHL forward is nothing to brag about.
Scoring and assisting at a lower pace than average OHL forward is a major concern for an 11th OA.

I don`t think shot per 60 metrics are terribly important for a prospect seen primarily as an elite playmaker.

For reference, some of the NHL`s top playmakers would rank pretty low in the same metrics; guys like Thornton, H.Sedin, and Getzlaf all rank very low in shots per 60, heck Stone is below average too.

 

[Boud]

I liked McLeod too but their is no obsession with this team for drafting tall players, I have often argued for them to take bigger & tougher players over European players just like Dahlen. I'm going to guess that they might give Brown 9 games to start the yr just to see where he is & how he can handle himself in a better league with better players. However, due to all the one way contracts I think he goes back to junior for another yr where hopefully he finally gets it & decides to dedicate himself to the sport.

I think we had this discussion before. You have a point...

But just going through it quickly, here are some tall players we drafted or traded for lately:

Lehner
Wiercioch
Cowen
Gagne
Paul
Chiasson

None of them lived up to the hype and that's because tall players are always overrated for the most part. Brown is not as good as McLoed, the only reason he got drafted before is because he is taller. Anytime a tall player is available, the same comparables come up... "The next true #1C", "The next Joe Thornton" type of thing, you know. It's pretty damn annoying because it's almost like being tall means that you'll be stronger/tougher or simply a better hockey player than the guys that are between 5'8" and 6'. Many smaller players are tougher and stronger than taller guys honestly.

Then look at the best players on this team..

Hoffman
Turris
Karlsson
Stone
Brassard
Pageau
MacArthur
Smith
Ryan

Other than Stone, Ryan and Smith, all of our best players are considered to be small or average. The 3 best players in the world right now are around 6ft and all under 200pds

 

[Cosmix]

I liked McLeod too but their is no obsession with this team for drafting tall players, I have often argued for them to take bigger & tougher players over European players just like Dahlen. I'm going to guess that they might give Brown 9 games to start the yr just to see where he is & how he can handle himself in a better league with better players. However, due to all the one way contracts I think he goes back to junior for another yr where hopefully he finally gets it & decides to dedicate himself to the sport.

I doubt that Logan Brown will get any regular season games this coming season. He has a lot of work to do before he gets that opportunity as he has not dominated junior and looks slow. Plus he is not a physical player. My expectations for him are lower than when he was drafted.

 

[Micklebot]

I think we had this discussion before. You have a point...

But just going through it quickly, here are some tall players we drafted or traded for lately:

Lehner
Wiercioch
Cowen
Gagne
Paul
Chiasson

None of them lived up to the hype and that's because tall players are always overrated for the most part. Brown is not as good as McLoed, the only reason he got drafted before is because he is taller. Anytime a tall player is available, the same comparables come up... "The next true #1C", "The next Joe Thornton" type of thing, you know. It's pretty damn annoying because it's almost like being tall means that you'll be stronger/tougher or simply a better hockey player than the guys that are between 5'8" and 6'. Many smaller players are tougher and stronger than taller guys honestly.

Then look at the best players on this team..

Hoffman
Turris
Karlsson
Stone
Brassard
Pageau
MacArthur
Smith
Ryan

Other than Stone, Ryan and Smith, all of our best players are considered to be small or average. The 3 best players in the world right now are around 6ft and all under 200pds

Given that around 6 feet is by far the most common height in the nhl it's not surprising that the top 3 players would be around that height. Also, assuming Crosby is one of the 3, he is typically listed as 200 pounds, so not under.

As for the reason Brown got drafted earlier, it's because in the second half of his draft year, he seemed to figure out how to put all his tools to use and rocketed up the rankings.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It's worth noting that every NHL prospect on the Spitfires had disappointing production in 2016/17.

Brown went from 74P in 59GP in 2015/16 to 40P in 35GP in 2016/17 (0.11 drop in PPG from previous year)

Sergachev went from 57P in 67GP in 2015/16 to 43P in 50GP in 2016/17 (basically the same PPG from previous year)

Bracco went from 64P in 49GP for Kitchener in 2015/16 and 51P in 27GP in Kitchener in 2016/17 to 32P in 30GP after being traded to Windsor in 2016/17 (0.82 drop in PPG in the same year, 0.24 drop from the previous year)

Nattinen went from 71P in 52GP for Barrie in 2015/16 to 38P in 51GP for Windsor in 2016/17 (0.62 drop in PPG)

Knott went from 42P in 68GP in Niagara in 2015/16 and 17P in 14GP in Niagara in 2016/17 to 35P in 45GP after being traded to Windsor in 2016/17 (a 0.16 increase in PPG from previous year, but a 0.44 drop in the same year)

Addison went from 56P in 66GP in Ottawa in 2015/16 to 43P in 51GP in Windsor in 2016/17 (basically the same PPG as the previous season)

Plus a top prospect in Vilardi only had 61P in 49GP, when he is capable of much, much more



To summarize - Brown's production was disappointing for sure, but when you take into consideration that every single NHL prospect saw their production decrease or stagnate with the 2016/17 Spitfires, and the numerous injuries he had this year, it's definitely not the end of the world that his PPG wasn't as good as last season. This season will be much more telling for his future.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yep. He's still a teenager.

If he's disappointing going into his second or third AHL/pro season, then we can start thinking about writing him off.

Remember, he was drafted as a long-term prospect....not as a kid who would be playing in the NHL with peach fuzz on his face.

 

[Boud]

Given that around 6 feet is by far the most common height in the nhl it's not surprising that the top 3 players would be around that height. Also, assuming Crosby is one of the 3, he is typically listed as 200 pounds, so not under.

As for the reason Brown got drafted earlier, it's because in the second half of his draft year, he seemed to figure out how to put all his tools to use and rocketed up the rankings.

I agree with you that it's no surprise, so why is it that taller players automatically get drafted higher even if they don't produce as much and aren't as good quite simply is the point where I was getting. Generally speaking taller players tend to be drafted higher than players with similar output. While that trend seems to change a bit now with guys like Marner and Keller drafted much earlier than they would've a couple years ago, you still see some taller guys drafted ahead of players that are clearly more talented.

Obviously, as I've previously mentionned in my past posts, Brown had a great 1/2 season in his draft year, but other than that he hasn't done anything to warrant getting picked at 11. He just isn't as good as the guys drafted around him IMO and he wouldn't have gone this high/had been rated so highly in the draft if he wasn't this tall.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I agree with you that it's no surprise, so why is it that taller players automatically get drafted higher even if they don't produce as much and aren't as good quite simply is the point where I was getting.

Obviously, as I've previously mentionned in my past posts, Brown had a great 1/2 season in his draft year, but other than that he hasn't done anything to warrant getting picked at 11. He just isn't as good as the guys drafted around him IMO and he wouldn't have gone this high/had been rated so highly in the draft if he wasn't this tall.

I do believe the logic is, a big kid can play on the bottom 6 and become a shutdown/checker type, while a little body usually can't.

But...Brown breaks the rules with this one. Brown isn't really a physical kid (not really in his makeup). He is the typical slick hand small skilled guy...in a big body. That's why he was classified as a boom or bust pick. He likely would not be the type of player who could be molded into a bottom 6 role.

 

[Boud]

I do believe the logic is, a big kid can play on the bottom 6 and become a shutdown/checker type, while a little body usually can't.

But...Brown breaks the rules with this one. Brown isn't really a physical kid (not really in his makeup). He is the typical slick hand small skilled guy...in a big body. That's why he was classified as a boom or bust pick. He likely would not be the type of player who could be molded into a bottom 6 role.

While that may be the logic, look at our bottom 6. We don't have many big guys. Pageau, Pyatt, Burrows, Dzingel are on the smaller side while Smith and Thompson are the guys you'd consider bigger. Pageau and Burrows play hard, tougher than a lot of bigger guys actually. That's why I find it hard to understand this logic of teams generally drafting taller players just because.

Your second point being very true makes it even worse. At least you knew what you had in McLoed, and he was already better than Brown. Can you imagine picking up McAvoy or even Kunin? IDK man this obsession with taller guys from this org. drives me nuts.

 

[Knave]

Estimates to come up with estimates to come up with a probability. LOL.

Seems reliable.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Estimates to come up with estimates to come up with a probability. LOL.

Seems reliable.

 

[Micklebot]

I agree with you that it's no surprise, so why is it that taller players automatically get drafted higher even if they don't produce as much and aren't as good quite simply is the point where I was getting. Generally speaking taller players tend to be drafted higher than players with similar output. While that trend seems to change a bit now with guys like Marner and Keller drafted much earlier than they would've a couple years ago, you still see some taller guys drafted ahead of players that are clearly more talented.

Obviously, as I've previously mentionned in my past posts, Brown had a great 1/2 season in his draft year, but other than that he hasn't done anything to warrant getting picked at 11. He just isn't as good as the guys drafted around him IMO and he wouldn't have gone this high/had been rated so highly in the draft if he wasn't this tall.

Small players like Marner are a bit different category altogether. But regarding Brown, he also outproduced Mcloed, so being tall clearly wasn't the only reason they saw top line potential in him. Many of the scouting services were higher on him than where he went, an d while his size was certainly part of the appeal, it certainly wasn't everything.

Anyways, at this point, all I can say is I hope your wrong about Brown.

 

[Puikiou]

McAvoy, with chabot already in the system, would have been something.

But I still have alot of hope for Brown. The upcoming season will be a pivotal one for his career.

 

[The Lewler]

Short skill guys are overated

 

[Viletho]

While that may be the logic, look at our bottom 6. We don't have many big guys. Pageau, Pyatt, Burrows, Dzingel are on the smaller side while Smith and Thompson are the guys you'd consider bigger. Pageau and Burrows play hard, tougher than a lot of bigger guys actually. That's why I find it hard to understand this logic of teams generally drafting taller players just because.

Your second point being very true makes it even worse. At least you knew what you had in McLoed, and he was already better than Brown. Can you imagine picking up McAvoy or even Kunin? IDK man this obsession with taller guys from this org. drives me nuts.

Are they ?

If you look at our last 9 1st overall pick, Karlsson ( was he like 5'10 ), Cowen 6'5, Zibanejad 6'2 Ceci 6,3, Lazar 6'0 Chabot 6'2, White 6'0, Brown, 6'6, Bower 6'0 i think.

Than we have with some recent 2nd round pick Chlapik 6'1, Gagne 6'6, Dahlen 5'11, Formenton 6'2

I don't see the obsession here. There is a good mix of normal size combine with guy with higher size.