Prospect Info: Logan Brown part 2

[Boud]

At some point they actually have to produce in line with expectations.

You can only rely on pacing arguments and injury explanations for so long.

It's not like Brown was ever anything less than a great player in the AHL though.

A couple points here and there don't mean much. Also need to consider Belleville had a better team this year than they did last which skews his numbers a bit if you look at both years.

 

[Boud]

If you put a gun to my head and said Logan brown in 3 years player or bust I’ll say bust. Not for what he has done so far but just watching him he takes shifts sometimes games off . You aren’t gonna play in the NHL with that kind of drive.

I just get the vibe that he doesn’t have a love for the game

It would not surprise me if he's a bit ticked off that the team is asking him to completely change his game because of their preconception that Brown was selected because he was a big center that could become whatever they planned for him to be.

 

[Bileur]

It would not surprise me if he's a bit ticked off that the team is asking him to completely change his game because of their preconception that Brown was selected because he was a big center that could become whatever they planned for him to be.

I don’t see how asking for more consistency of compete level is asking someone to completely change their game.

Seems like something every team asks of every player with compete level issues.

 

[Boud]

I don’t see how asking for more consistency of compete level is asking someone to completely change their game.

Seems like something every team asks of every player with compete level issues.

I'm not talking about consistency, the guy has been a constant producer and from what I've seen from Belleville games it's really not what people make it seem.

It seems like the issue is a lot more based on the way that he plays than simply the effort.

Completely changing his game is them asking him to be physical and play with more grit and we can see that he's not a player that plays that style of game at all. He uses his size differently, he's just not that guy who runs over the other team. He's a cerebral player. That's like asking Spezza to play physical and gritty hockey. It's not typical for teams to ask that type of player to play that way. Again, it seems like they mostly drafted Brown because of his size, and obviously his talent as well, but they don't seem to be content with him playing a skill based style of hockey.

 

[JD1]

I'm not talking about consistency, the guy has been a constant producer and from what I've seen from Belleville games it's really not what people make it seem.

It seems like the issue is a lot more based on the way that he plays than simply the effort.

Completely changing his game is them asking him to be physical and play with more grit and we can see that he's not a player that plays that style of game at all. He uses his size differently, he's just not that guy who runs over the other team. He's a cerebral player. That's like asking Spezza to play physical and gritty hockey. It's not typical for teams to ask that type of player to play that way. Again, it seems like they mostly drafted Brown because of his size, and obviously his talent as well, but they don't seem to be content with him playing a skill based style of hockey.

I'm not sure that that is a fair assessment

I saw Brown play live a few times last year at the CTC. two things stood out watching him play: he is a very skilled player with a really high offensive iq with the tools to use it and he has shift to shift game to game issues with competitiveness.

I don't think anyone is asking him to be something that he isn't. That imo is placing Brown's failure to crack an NHL lineup on someone other than Brown. I think people are asking him to play with more desire and he really does need to figure it out. And let's all hope he does because if he does we have a heck of a player.

 

[Leafmealone11]

I'm not talking about consistency, the guy has been a constant producer and from what I've seen from Belleville games it's really not what people make it seem.

It seems like the issue is a lot more based on the way that he plays than simply the effort.

Completely changing his game is them asking him to be physical and play with more grit and we can see that he's not a player that plays that style of game at all. He uses his size differently, he's just not that guy who runs over the other team. He's a cerebral player. That's like asking Spezza to play physical and gritty hockey. It's not typical for teams to ask that type of player to play that way. Again, it seems like they mostly drafted Brown because of his size, and obviously his talent as well, but they don't seem to be content with him playing a skill based style of hockey.

Leaf fans think Spezza gritty tough playoff guy.

 

[JD1]

Leaf fans think Spezza gritty tough playoff guy.

It's all relative

 

[Xspyrit]

Logan Brown is just not interested to play competitive hockey. He plays like it is a shinny to have a beer after. Painful to watch. Please forget about this guy already.

This gives me a boost in LB's faith

I have some issue with pacing arguments.

25 games played and a .004 PPG advantage is not sufficient in my opinion to justify anything of significance.

That’s why this year is so important for him. He has to seize a C slot.

Pacing arguments absolutely work the best to determine concrete production

However if there is a big difference in the number of games played (in this case more than 100% more games for Norris), it's a bit misleading. Brown's pace would have chances to drop after playing more game. Doesn't mean it automatically would though

If you compare 2 hockey players career production, will you look at 635 pts in 935 Games vs 854 pts in pts in 1255 Games or just look at the PPG and find it's exactly the same production.

I'm not talking about consistency, the guy has been a constant producer and from what I've seen from Belleville games it's really not what people make it seem.

It seems like the issue is a lot more based on the way that he plays than simply the effort.

Completely changing his game is them asking him to be physical and play with more grit and we can see that he's not a player that plays that style of game at all. He uses his size differently, he's just not that guy who runs over the other team. He's a cerebral player. That's like asking Spezza to play physical and gritty hockey. It's not typical for teams to ask that type of player to play that way. Again, it seems like they mostly drafted Brown because of his size, and obviously his talent as well, but they don't seem to be content with him playing a skill based style of hockey.

I dunno, so far to me, DJ doesn't seem to appreciate finesse/skill hockey without grit

 

[otown]

Bottom line, Brown has to be given a good opportunity to show how he has developed since last year.
He has to play to stay! Give him a shot so you know if he is the player you thought he would develop into.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

I think they need to give him abetter shot this year. I’m not really expecting much this season except for personal progression from certain in players.

I would center him on the second line with some talent and see what he can do. Maybe with the likes of C brown on the right and a skillful player on the left.

From what I’ve seen he can play with good players. I know that’s not saying much but if he’s going I think he can change the game.

It’s like centering a player like Spezza with the likes of Greening. You’re not going to get the most out of him.

L Brown has crazy good iq and passing and I think his shot is super underrated. He can let it rip.

 

[aragorn]

I'm not talking about consistency, the guy has been a constant producer and from what I've seen from Belleville games it's really not what people make it seem.

It seems like the issue is a lot more based on the way that he plays than simply the effort.

Completely changing his game is them asking him to be physical and play with more grit and we can see that he's not a player that plays that style of game at all. He uses his size differently, he's just not that guy who runs over the other team. He's a cerebral player. That's like asking Spezza to play physical and gritty hockey. It's not typical for teams to ask that type of player to play that way. Again, it seems like they mostly drafted Brown because of his size, and obviously his talent as well, but they don't seem to be content with him playing a skill based style of hockey.

I think you are both right, I think the team would like to see more physical play out of L. Brown & more of an edge to his game, but at the same time his size & skill package is such a great combination for any NHL team especially when there are a number of teams with big centres including in the division. I think he will eventually get it, but the team too has to realize that he is more like Spezza & Thornton than Getzlaff. Speaking of Spezza & Thornton I wonder if the Leafs now have their bottom six enforcers hahahaha.

 

[NyQuil]

Pacing arguments absolutely work the best to determine concrete production

However if there is a big difference in the number of games played (in this case more than 100% more games for Norris), it's a bit misleading. Brown's pace would have chances to drop after playing more game. Doesn't mean it automatically would though

If you compare 2 hockey players career production, will you look at 635 pts in 935 Games vs 854 pts in pts in 1255 Games or just look at the PPG and find it's exactly the same production.

I have issues in that low sample sizes typically benefit the player with the lower number of GP.

I think it's easier to have a hot streak than maintain that same PPG over a longer period.

Particularly when you are dealing with younger players and the grind of an entire season is formidable.

I'm just not as impressed with a PPG season in 25 or 30 games compared with 80 games.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

This has probably been said ad nauseum, but it's as simple as he either solidifies himself as a top-6 center (2nd line realistically) or he'll be trade bait.

 

[Xspyrit]

I have issues in that low sample sizes typically benefit the player with the lower number of GP.

I think it's easier to have a hot streak than maintain that same PPG over a longer period.

Particularly when you are dealing with younger players and the grind of an entire season is formidable.

I'm just not as impressed with a PPG season in 25 or 30 games compared with 80 games.

Totally understand, the smaller the sample size is, the less reliable the PPG will be.

We can still point it out, but in that case Norris numbers are more impressive because he maintained over PPG for a much larger number of games, something that is really not easy to do in a pro league

Sucks for Brown to be often injured because he didn't have the opportunity the show he could go over PPG in a full season.

 

[Cosmix]

It would not surprise me if he's a bit ticked off that the team is asking him to completely change his game because of their preconception that Brown was selected because he was a big center that could become whatever they planned for him to be.

What is your source for saying “the team is asking him to completely change his game”?

I think he has to improve his physical play by using his big body to hit people to create more space and to improve his skating to get better defensively and offensively. That would not be anywhere near a complete change to his game.

 

[Sweatred]

What is your source for saying “the team is asking him to completely change his game”?

I think he has to improve his physical play by using his big body to hit people to create more space and to improve his skating to get better defensively and offensively. That would not be anywhere near a complete change to his game.

Definitely not a “complete” change but these recent prospects have been held to a higher bar than what past prospects had to achieve before getting a chance (and prospects on other teams).

Many early first rounders are auto slotted in D+2 etc.

 

[playasRus]

Unless we're getting a top 20 pick back, I don't see why we bother trading a guy at his all time low value, and who still has all the tools and developmental time at being a top 2C. It would be like giving up on Zibanejad after his 30pt season, (except Zibanejad didn't have any injuries to slow him down, so say he only got 20pts and disappointed us as a 6OA pick).

 

[Sweatred]

I find it hard to believe Arti cares if he plays or not ... he’ll get his money. He’s prob going back to Russia after next season anyway. Play the kid.

 

[BigRig4]

I dunno, so far to me, DJ doesn't seem to appreciate finesse/skill hockey without grit

Chabot got more ice time than any player in the league last year.

 

[Cosmix]

I find it hard to believe Arti cares if he plays or not ... he’ll get his money. He’s prob going back to Russia after next season anyway. Play the kid.

I think the Belleville coaches know the player better than we do as they see him in every game and practice. They have said Norris is ready for the NHL but have not said that about L. Brown. They obviously have concerns about some aspects of his game. I suspect speed, quickness, defensive capability and competitiveness are the most likely reasons.

I am in favor of giving Norris and Brown an opportunity to make the team at Center during training camp and preseason games. Let the most ready best Center win the roster spot. Or keep both if both show that they are better than our existing Centers. There will be other players who can be sent to Belleville in that case.

 

[Sweatred]

I think the Belleville coaches know the player better than we do as they see him in every game and practice. They have said Norris is ready for the NHL but have not said that about L. Brown. They obviously have concerns about some aspects of his game. I suspect speed, quickness, defensive capability and competitiveness are the most likely reasons.

I am in favor of giving Norris and Brown an opportunity to make the team at Center during training camp and preseason games. Let the most ready best Center win the roster spot. Or keep both if both show that they are better than our existing Centers. There will be other players who can be sent to Belleville in that case.

Totally agree . Arti won’t be here anyway next year so beyond insulating Stutz or who ever he can there is no loss in sitting him. His trade value isn’t worth prospect development. The Sens benched Boedker last year and I bet they do the same this year with Arti as needed.

 

[Cosmix]

Totally agree . Arti won’t be here anyway next year so beyond insulating Stutz or who ever he can there is no loss in sitting him. His trade value isn’t worth prospect development. The Sens benched Boedker last year and I bet they do the same this year with Arti as needed.

It could happen. Depends on how the youngsters play. Also depends on whether Dorion wants to trade him at the TDL for a draft pick if any team has an interest.

 

[HSF]

I don’t really think we have to pick between Norris or brown right now

development is not linear let them battle it out and see if anyone steals a spot

 

[OD99]

I have issues in that low sample sizes typically benefit the player with the lower number of GP.

I think it's easier to have a hot streak than maintain that same PPG over a longer period.

Particularly when you are dealing with younger players and the grind of an entire season is formidable.

I'm just not as impressed with a PPG season in 25 or 30 games compared with 80 games.

That's fair although Brown was heating up as he adjusted to the game pace after his injury so if anything I believe he was going to increase his PPG number.

 

[Xspyrit]

Chabot got more ice time than any player in the league last year.

Chabot is elite though. So maybe it works if the player is elite... We won't only have elite players though. Let's see how he handles Batherson development in the NHL for example.