Likelihood Sens sign both Duchene and Stone

[JD1]

We were told that the cap would help the smaller markets.....Funny because since the cap went over 70 million i cant remember at anytime we spent anywhere close to this ...Yet another sad excuse ,its not up to the fans to figure out way to increase revenues to provide the needed monetary strength required to run the team successfully ....EM has had more than a decade to get his **** together,and continues to do sweet **** all...Except whine and cry and hold the team hostage

when that cap came in, almost 15 years ago, it did help small market teams. but league revenues have grown immensely. the answer to your point lies in the point you made. ever since the cap went above 70...Melnyk has been on message for over a decade that he needs additional revenue sources and he's tried several things, none of which worked.

personally I don't question Melnyk's interest. I think it comes down to financial inability. there are no additional revenue streams and his personal fortune is not what it was.

if you look at 5 he forbes numbers it costs north of 60 to run a top end nhl team and when you add 80+ in salary we are not close to that

 

[Yak]

I can understand the fans wanting to beleive Ownership and the GM. I can understand not wanting to beleive us negative posters (aka realists). I want to beleive too but I will never beleive in these guys even if they occasionally are right or do follow through once and while.

However what I can't understand is the excuses and the spin doctoring of accounts of what has transpired with this franchise. No one on this board will EVER beleive this B.S. so don't even waste your time trying.

 

[Tundraman]

I don't doubt Stone would prefer staying. However, like Karlsson, not at any cost.

Sounds like management isn't interested if they haven't even started talking. Are they actually following the "contract negotiations with superstar Erik Karlsson" playbook?

Dorion and Stone's agent not talking for another 2-3 weeks is absolutely ridiculous. Ok Dorion couldn't sign him until now but there are no rules that prevented working out a deal over the last few months that could be signed early in the new year. So it begs the question what the heck is going on with Duchene too there was no reason to wait in his case. We'd better hope that Dorion will surprise us and announce a deal with him in the next day or 2. Dorion will be chastised if all he does is re-sign Dzingel only. By itself that definitely wont satisfy most Sens fans although I suspect he's probably just trade bait.

Like I said before if Dorion can't re-sign either or both of his top 2 forwards then the longer he waits to trade them the less teams will come to the party.

 

[Masked]

Mark Stone said that he expects contract negotiations to start in the next two weeks and makes it clear that he wants to stay in Ottawa.



You would think they would be jumping on Stone talks right away

Dorion is hopefully busy at the world juniors right now.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dorion is hopefully busy at the world juniors right now.

Practicing his Russian

 

[topshelf15]

when that cap came in, almost 15 years ago, it did help small market teams. but league revenues have grown immensely. the answer to your point lies in the point you made. ever since the cap went above 70...Melnyk has been on message for over a decade that he needs additional revenue sources and he's tried several things, none of which worked.

personally I don't question Melnyk's interest. I think it comes down to financial inability. there are no additional revenue streams and his personal fortune is not what it was.

if you look at 5 he forbes numbers it costs north of 60 to run a top end nhl team and when you add 80+ in salary we are not close to that

Yes,this is his problem entirely ...But he has made it ours for far too long ,he needs to move on for the health of the team moving forward....Blaming fans ,and the city has caused the backlash,add in mistrust and he will never make money in this city with the team again

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dorion is hopefully busy at the world juniors right now.

longingly staring at hughes and kakko

 

[branch]

Practicing his Russian

We're not allowed to draft Russian.

 

[HF Reader]

when that cap came in, almost 15 years ago, it did help small market teams. but league revenues have grown immensely. the answer to your point lies in the point you made. ever since the cap went above 70...Melnyk has been on message for over a decade that he needs additional revenue sources and he's tried several things, none of which worked.

personally I don't question Melnyk's interest. I think it comes down to financial inability. there are no additional revenue streams and his personal fortune is not what it was.

if you look at 5 he forbes numbers it costs north of 60 to run a top end nhl team and when you add 80+ in salary we are not close to that

It is gracious of you to see it this way. Do you anticipate any change in the future? Are you prepared to invest in a team whose main goal (appears to be) to minimize expenses?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So why do you continue to base your counter on Toronto??Nobody has said anything about competing with the NHL,s largest market ...In terms of monetary strength....

We dont see issues in WPG,Cal,Van,or MTL ,only here in Ottawa do we have a team that has never been over the 75 million dollar threshold in terms of dollars actually spent ...Yet we have a large fan base , that has more than supported the team in a oversized arena ,to the tune of getting a very good regional TV deal ..Multiple billionaire buyers wanting to buy the team ,never mind the huge downtown arena project thrown at the team that many other teams can only dream about...

Yet you continue to blame the market ,sorry man your argument has more holes in it than a public bathhouse

I know you want to hang 100% of everything that's wrong with the current state of the Franchise, on the Owner.

That's your opinion and there's no room for anything else, you've solved the mystery as to why Ottawa can't compete with the upper echelon of teams in the NHL ....... its the owner, period.

However you, yourself, pointed out that "since inception" the message from all previous and the current owner is the same

"Small market,money in for money out ,we can only hire coaches that don't have the walk on water ability"

And you rightly point out that the Senators, have "never been over the 75 million dollar threshold in terms of dollars actually spent" but you never make the connection between the market place, and the team's internal budget, that the owner has stated, on numerous times, that it's tied to the revenues received.

I don't know how many times, other posters have correctly pointed out that Ottawa has the lowest corporate base of all Canadian Franchise from which to draw on, so sell corporate suites to ........ and over the last decade we've seen the removal of unsold suites, and the addition of the Club Bell section of the Arena, in an attempt to generate more revenues, from a market, that can (this season) could only generate about 4000 STHs.

Small market,money in for money out ,we can only hire coaches that dont have the walk on water ability ...The message from this team since inception has been the exact same .....And people wonder why fans are fed up ....Its been over two decades of the same crap ,we pay to support our team yet we never get the team we payed for

I'm not giving the current and previous owners a free pass here, and believe there are ways they could have , and can generate more revenues from this marketplace ..... If you can't put aside your blinding blame everything on the current owner, just for a while, to even contemplate that there are other issues that are impacting on the lower than league average revenues this franchise has, then perhaps you'll be part of the reason(s) the future viability of this franchise could be in jeopardy.

Your solution, seems to be, have a new owner buy the team, and things will change in this market place, instantly.

So companies with corporate headquarters in Toronto and Montreal, are going to shutdown and move their headquarters to Ottawa, and buy corporate suites?

The Leafs are going to allow regional games into their market and TV viewership in going to quadruple and therefore so will the next regional TV rights contract?

The Federal government is going to rewrite the regulations that will allow Federal departments to buy suites and seasons tickets and write them off for business purposes?

Please tell us just how a new owner is going to changes things, without any of the above happening.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Dorion and Stone's agent not talking for another 2-3 weeks is absolutely ridiculous. Ok Dorion couldn't sign him until now but there are no rules that prevented working out a deal over the last few months that could be signed early in the new year.

Are you assuming that PD did NOT ask Stone's agent to talk (unofficially) prior to Dec 31st?

Are you assuming Stone's agent was calling and begging to talk to PD, prior to Dec 31st?

Do you also assume it's totally up to PD if and when contract talks take place, and that Stone's agent has absolutely no say in the matter?

If you were Stone's agent, would you not think that perhaps the closer the TDL approaches, the more pressure will be on, for PD to make a deal, and give Stone's agent a little more bargaining power?


No matter what happens, it's not all on PD, as to when talks begin, there are two parties at play here.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

We're not allowed to draft Russian.

We dont have a fulltime scout in russia and havent for a while I'm pretty sure. Chicken or the egg situation. I'm sure if melnyk wasnt so cheap we'd have a fulltime Russian scout and then we'd draft players from Russia more often

We also cut other european scouts 2 yrs ago and havent drafted a Euro player in 2 drafts. Not because of bias but because of lack of resources & familiarity

 

[branch]

We dont have a fulltime scout in russia and havent for a while I'm pretty sure. Chicken or the egg situation. I'm sure if melnyk wasnt so cheap we'd have a fulltime Russian scout and then we'd draft players from Russia more often

We also cut other european scouts 2 yrs ago and havent drafted a Euro player in 2 drafts. Not because of bias but because of lack of resources & familiarity

No he does not want anything to do with Russians since their annexation of the Crimea in 2014. He is a Ukrainian patriot.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

No he does not want anything to do with Russians since their annexation of the Crimea in 2014. He is a Ukrainian patriot.

He's such a patriot that he instated that rule 9 years beforehand?

We have drafted 3 russians since the lockout and they were all in the 2005 draft. 14 drafts ago

 

[branch]

He's such a patriot that he instated that rule 9 years beforehand?

We have drafted 3 russians since the lockout and they were all in the 2005 draft. 14 drafts ago

You're proving my point. The team under Muckler drafted a couple of late round Russians. The last Russian in the organization was Gonchar. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Russia’s actions ‘right out of Hitler’s playbook’: Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk

Sens owner Melnyk urges Canadian action on Ukraine

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

You're proving my point. The team under Muckler drafted a couple of late round Russians. The last Russian in the organization was Gonchar. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Russia’s actions ‘right out of Hitler’s playbook’: Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk

Sens owner Melnyk urges Canadian action on Ukraine

yes, Melnyk is staunchly against Russian expansionism. this has nothing to do with why we dont draft russian players. You literally just said "he wants nothing to do with Russians since the 2014 annexation of crimea" and then when I point out that nothing has changed since then I'm proving your point? lol.

We don't draft russians because we don't have a scouting presence there and we dont have a scouting presence there because its expensive and unreliable and this organization cuts costs at every corner. we dont draft russians because we are cheap, end of discussion

 

[branch]

yes, Melnyk is staunchly against Russian expansionism. this has nothing to do with why we dont draft russian players. You literally just said "he wants nothing to do with Russians since the 2014 annexation of crimea" and then when I point out that nothing has changed since then I'm proving your point? lol.

We don't draft russians because we don't have a scouting presence there and we dont have a scouting presence there because its expensive and unreliable and this organization cuts costs at every corner. we dont draft russians because we are cheap, end of discussion

K sounds good

 

[Cosmix]

If Stone has to get moved, I think GMs will be tripping over themselves to get him. He would get a great return. I hope not of course.

Stone can determine where he will play for future seasons regardless of any trade the Senators make to any team. He has earned that right by going to UFA. All teams know that and the Senators and whatever team he is traded to have no control over that. So his value right now is not the same as his value as a player with his ability. He is a rental now with consequential lower value. Some team might trade a late first round for him plus a decent prospect, but not an established star player. We must also consider the Melnyk budget issue (reduce salaries) and the Dorion factor (trading is not his forte; it is his weakness).

 

[topshelf15]

I know you want to hang 100% of everything that's wrong with the current state of the Franchise, on the Owner.

That's your opinion and there's no room for anything else, you've solved the mystery as to why Ottawa can't compete with the upper echelon of teams in the NHL ....... its the owner, period.

However you, yourself, pointed out that "since inception" the message from all previous and the current owner is the same

"Small market,money in for money out ,we can only hire coaches that don't have the walk on water ability"

And you rightly point out that the Senators, have "never been over the 75 million dollar threshold in terms of dollars actually spent" but you never make the connection between the market place, and the team's internal budget, that the owner has stated, on numerous times, that it's tied to the revenues received.

I don't know how many times, other posters have correctly pointed out that Ottawa has the lowest corporate base of all Canadian Franchise from which to draw on, so sell corporate suites to ........ and over the last decade we've seen the removal of unsold suites, and the addition of the Club Bell section of the Arena, in an attempt to generate more revenues, from a market, that can (this season) could only generate about 4000 STHs.







I'm not giving the current and previous owners a free pass here, and believe there are ways they could have , and can generate more revenues from this marketplace ..... If you can't put aside your blinding blame everything on the current owner, just for a while, to even contemplate that there are other issues that are impacting on the lower than league average revenues this franchise has, then perhaps you'll be part of the reason(s) the future viability of this franchise could be in jeopardy.

Your solution, seems to be, have a new owner buy the team, and things will change in this market place, instantly.

So companies with corporate headquarters in Toronto and Montreal, are going to shutdown and move their headquarters to Ottawa, and buy corporate suites?

The Leafs are going to allow regional games into their market and TV viewership in going to quadruple and therefore so will the next regional TV rights contract?

The Federal government is going to rewrite the regulations that will allow Federal departments to buy suites and seasons tickets and write them off for business purposes?

Please tell us just how a new owner is going to changes things, without any of the above happening.

Simple question,why does EM hold on to the team if he is losing the millions he has claimed??

 

[topshelf15]

As witnessed by the recent lawsuits , and flip flopping on ownership of the arena ...EM cant do much of anything in terms of ensuring the long term growth of this franchise,nor has he done much except ruin the team and misused the trust of the fanbase for his personal gain...He doesnt have the money to own this team ,nor has he bothered to invest in it ...He is the problem always has been

 

[JD1]

It is gracious of you to see it this way. Do you anticipate any change in the future? Are you prepared to invest in a team whose main goal (appears to be) to minimize expenses?

do I see it changing? no.

the only catalyst I see for change is moving further away from gate revenue and market revenue. there may be a potential down the road that the league is earning major gambling revenues and splitting that money across the franchise base. all forms of revenue split across the franchise base provide us an equal footing. a new US tv deal will help us. all forms of market revenue, be it gate receipts or merchandise or local TV deals, reflect the small market that we are.

to your question about investing in a team whose main goal is to minimize expenses....I don't disagree that that appears to be the main goal but I do think the driver of that goal is aligning expenses with revenues

and I have been attending more games this year than in recent years because of the attendance crunch.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Via Sens minister of propaganda.....

When the Senators signed Stone to a one-year contract extension to avoid arbitration in August, the two sides weren’t that far apart on a deal. It’s believed the framework of a long-term extension was close, but one of the big issues they had to overcome was structure.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

So, as I've guessed in the past, it sounds like the reason why they went the extremely strange route of a 1 year deal may have been related to an inability or unwillingness by the Sens to give Stone signing bonuses or upfront money....

 

[stempniaksen]

Via Sens minister of propaganda.....

When the Senators signed Stone to a one-year contract extension to avoid arbitration in August, the two sides weren’t that far apart on a deal. It’s believed the framework of a long-term extension was close, but one of the big issues they had to overcome was structure.

So signing bonuses. I doubt any of the recent Lebreton news has convinced EM to be open to handing out SB's (especially lock-out protection) and there's no reason for Stone to sign a deal at this stage without those benefits. Seems like more than just a minor hurdle to me.

 

[Spartachat]

So, as I've guessed in the past, it sounds like the reason why they went the extremely strange route of a 1 year deal may have been related to an inability or unwillingness by the Sens to give Stone signing bonuses or upfront money....

I am sure if Melnyk had good credit, banks would lend him the money to pay upfront. Interest rates are still very low.