Likelihood Sens sign both Duchene and Stone

[Sens of Anarchy]

Looks like Mark Stone went to school on the Erik Karlsson debacle. He has only ever played for Ottawa and he wants to stay but we'll see what happens. Dorion using the same play book ... not negotiating until after the date where he could be signed. So we should soon hear that Dorion has offered Mark Stone a very good contract offer. We will then not hear much, but perhaps Mark Stone will be allowed to talk to teams that could be interested. Following that as the TDL approaches and Dorion was unable to move Bobby Ryan's contract in any deal; we will hear of a trade for less than Stone is worth. Dorion will be ecstatic with the return he was able to get. Later we will hear that Melnyk emailed Stone , but Stone asked him to deal with his agent. Dorion turned down substantially more from eastern conference teams but shipped him out west.

It will be a little different for Duchene who was waiting to see what happened with Stone. Duchene will not make similar proclamations ; but will say he is trying to focus on hockey while his agent works things out. Duchene will decide he wants to cash in on his one chance and will somewhat sympathetically and sadly want to move on. Dorion will get fleeced on the deal; but justify it and be positive about the return.

Dzingel after being ignored up until the last second decides to move on as well. Again the return is underwhelming, but Dorion will act surprised with Dzingels position, and say he did the best he could when hung out to dry at the last second.

Dorion has no time to swing a Ceci deal, but will proclaim that almost 20 teams were interested.

 

[Canadian Time]

Well, that's it, I'm quite frustrated now. I had remained optimistic that both would be signed this week, I could even accept the Karlsson trade if it meant signing them. But here we are. There really are only two options for them not signing by now.
1) They don't have the means; the parameters must be pretty much known at this point.
2) Neither want to stay under any circumstances.

I could accept #2 but not with the way Stone has been talking about wanting to stay. I trust him and it doesn't sound like typical platitudes to me, I think he wants to stay but he must be shown some respect. Difficult to say with Duch, I think he too could be persuaded to stay with the right promises about improving.

I wanted so bad to trust...

 

[branch]

God damn can we sign this kid we took a flyer on in the 6th f***ing round and developed him into what he is today...

Pierre Dorion must cry himself to sleep after watching all of his precious little pets tell him to get bent, that they don’t want to play for this owner anymore.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

“Negotiations will start soon” will be the story so they can generate as many ticket sales as possible before the deadline.

Just like the Karlsson July 1st contract offer.

Melnyk is a professional con man.

 

[supsens]

The owners know a player strike is comming and all the players want a 'lockout' protected contract. A lot of teams can't just hand out millions to guys when there is no hockey, I was hoping and thinking they would keep Stone but the only reason he didn't sign last year was contract structure. I now think both will be traded this year. What a long five or six years it will be.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

A players strike? When has that ever happened in the NHL?

 

[supsens]

“Negotiations will start soon” will be the story so they can generate as many ticket sales as possible before the deadline.

Just like the Karlsson July 1st contract offer.

Melnyk is a professional con man.

People are buying tickets months in advance? This makes no sense. They are in last place.

 

[supsens]

A players strike? When has that ever happened in the NHL?

1992

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

1992

So are you saying the players are planning another strike?

 

[supsens]

So are you saying the players are planning another strike?

Well Bettman offered the players a chance to go to the Olympic games if they extend the CBA.
Fehr said the conversation among players was very very short, they have zero appetite to extend the current CBA one of the main issues is escrow. I have no idea how they keep a 50/50 split without it, there is no way the owners bend on that one, how can they?
I am guessing strike because the owners like the current deal and with all the players looking for lockout money it seems they know a season will be lost.

 

[Tundraman]

If lockout proof contracts and big up front bonuses are going to be the driving force for the Sens pending UFA then the teams with the deep pockets will have the pick of the litter. If it turns out that way then the NHL goofed big time for the small market teams in the same situation. I could see the Sens maybe trying to entice one guy with some type of decent bonus structure but Dorion will deserve some credit if he manages to sign both to reasonable deals.

No matter where they end up between now and July 1 someone will be willing to give the higher end players what they want when they become a UFA and they don't have to give anything back.

 

[Artanis]

I don't see the team wanting to commit to Duchene, Stone hopefully.

 

[bert]

Can they just trade them now so this dissapointment and falso hope doesnt drag along. We know they are gonners just pull the trigger. Dorions getting taken to the cleaners regardless of when he deals them. Probably get a better return trading them now than later if a team is pushing for a playoff spot.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

To me, it seems like there were issues with signing bonuses and that Dorion was buying time with the 1 year deal. There had to be some sort of factor that would lead to a potential change, whether he was hoping for some sort of financing that wasn't available in the summer, a change of heart from Melnyk, a change in ownership. I have no idea. That's really the only thing that makes sense if there's any truth to both sides wanting to get something done, and both sides being close.

Because if both sides were supposedly so close, why couldn't they bridge the gap in the summer like every single other team manages to do when they are close with players? That's why I think it had to be signing bonuses.

People forget, but this entire long term extension has dragged out since the summer of 2017. Realistically, Stone should have been signed long term at that point since he had emerged as our best forward and was eligible for a long term extension. Even if Stone wanted to play out the year in an attempt to raise his value, there was probably a number that would have made him reconsider, and I'd imagine it was less than the 8-10 million AAV he's now going to get from somebody.

The lack of extension in 2017 will end up costly the Sens big time. Stone was bargaining from a position of being (on average) a 65 point player under a 75 million dollar salary cap to be (on average) an 88 point player under an 83 million dollar salary cap. Not to mention he's next in line to be the captain of this team, and the team is in a position of weakness having already traded their most popular player in Erik Karlsson. While Stone wanting to play out the season in 2017 mean he probably doesn't sign a 6M-6.5M type contract which would have been his market value at the time, maybe we could have gotten him for 7M. Now according to Garrioch, we're looking at something near 9 million. I would guess probably with greater signing bonuses and up front money than we would have paid in 2017.

The entire thing has been an epic failure that has exposed our organization for either being poorly run, or badly owned. We were either too incompetent to recognize how important Stone was in 2017, and then too incompetent to get a deal done before the 2018 arbitration - or our ownership handcuffed us to a point that a deal was impossible at either one of those times. It might be a combination of both.

I'd like someone show me a more botched contractual situation with a star player. We're acting like people who get payday loans. Everything is about kicking the can down the road and dealing with the big money later on, even if it will cost us significantly more in the mid term. It's either that, or our management completely failed to recognize that Stone's production in 2017 put him in a position to be underpaid based on what he was capable of.

Sure, it's possible Stone was asking for 8x8 or 9x8 in 2017, but it's not probable. Looking at contracts signed in that period, it would be realistic to expect us to be able to have gotten Stone for 7M or less. Huberdeau signed for 5.9, Marchand 6.1. Lucic, Ladd, and Okposo all also signed for 6 or under. While all those players aren't perfect on ice comparable players, they were all producing in a similar range and all but Huberdeau (who had 2 RFA years) were UFA contracts. (Signings - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps) Looking at that, I assume we could have gotten Stone for 6-8 years, at much less than the 8-9 million with huge signing bonuses that it will now cost the team.

Great post.

The financial commitment can kicking has really hurt us. We could have had guys like Stone, Zibanejad & Turris locked up right now to what would be long term, reasonable contracts for a budget team. Instead they've backed themselves in to a corner with two contracts they likely just can't afford. The strategy seems to be throwing away money on 2-4 year mid range players instead of just bucking up for the important players at strategic times. The shrewd moves for a budget team need to be letting the fringe/aging players go at the right time and getting the leg up on signing or moving guys you feel you can't afford. Nickel and diming money away on non core players and waiting until the last possible moment to move star players when you have no leverage and they're nothing but rentals is just bad strategy for a budget team.

 

[Yak]

Just like last year's Town Halls's full of lies, everything PD says turns out to be B.S.

We are rebuilding for the next 10 years till EM's new liver gives out.

Only UFA's signed will be budget sigings under $5 million or less.

Even though they could sign a star to more and fill in the holes with Rookies EM can't bare to sign a contract for more then he is making.

We are farm team for rest of the league to cherry pick our players after we spend money developing them for them to sign at will.

For those of you that followed the Arizona Coyotes issues over the years , the Sens make them seem normal and stable.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-120...time-for-duchene-stone-negotiations-1.1238830

 

[SensFactor]

If we can somehow get to .500...

 

[topshelf15]

Cant see it happening they have had over a year to get these guy,s signed...But think its better to drag it right down to the wire??? So fun

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Cant see it happening they have had over a year to get these guy,s signed...But think its better to drag it right down to the wire??? So fun

No kidding. Other teams get this shit done from the get go. Pretty obvious what's about to transpire.

 

[pzeeman]

No kidding. Other teams get this **** done from the get go. Pretty obvious what's about to transpire.

I think there's something else happening in a couple of weeks that might have a bearing on the Senator's bargaining position.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think there's something else happening in a couple of weeks that might have a bearing on the Senator's bargaining position.

?

 

[pzeeman]

?

Nothing insider. Just the NCC either finalizing the end of the RendezVous Lebreton or Ruddy and Melnyk finding a way forward and convicing the NCC to let them keep building.

Sincerely not sure which one increases the chances of Stone and Duchene getting what they're looking for.

 

[topshelf15]

Nothing insider. Just the NCC either finalizing the end of the RendezVous Lebreton or Ruddy and Melnyk finding a way forward and convicing the NCC to let them keep building.

Sincerely not sure which one increases the chances of Stone and Duchene getting what they're looking for.

Throw in the possibility of the NCC not having a rebid ,and Devcore winning by default will have EM nuts in a vice for sure

 

[SensFactor]

Sens will sign 2 of Stone, Duchene, Dzingel

 

[Gil Gunderson]

If we can somehow get to .500...

I think it'll take more than that...

.500 isn't going to make Melnyk a half-decent owner.