Likelihood Sens sign both Duchene and Stone

[Cosmix]

I requested from Santa that we sign both.

There is a higher authority than Santa, and you must get down on your knees and pray!

 

[Cosmix]

Why should he?

The owner told everyone that Ottawa can't offer front loaded contracts , at the town-hall meetings, last year when asked about re-signing EK65, did you miss that?

"There are teams that can out gun us 5-1, you can only go as far as you can go and we'll go as far as we can."

Most people knew what he meant, in terms of contracts with huge front loaded signing bonuses, and how players like EK may decide they like up front money, lockout protection much more than remaining in Ottawa, despite how much they say they love Ottawa.

I think that pretty much applies to any impending UFA.

You may not like that fact that you're a fan of a small Canadian market team, and all that comes with that, but that is the reality of what the NHL was become with the ever escalating Salary Cap, the lower CDN dollar vs the US dollar.

It's just a fact of life for small market Canadian teams, and if that is not palatable for you as a fan, then you always have the option of cheering for a Large Market US based team, and leave all the continuous, never ending whining behind.

I tend to agree with your rationale for why the team cannot compete with the big market, higher revenue teams. This team needs to follow a draft and develop strategy and likely will have to let high priced UFAs go via trade. The current owner and GM must still go and complaining is still permitted.

 

[Cosmix]

The only thing we have going for us in wooing Stone is that we can make him the man here. That's it. This is your team, you get to be the captain, it's your face on the poorly constructed bus shelter ads. There may not be a team in free agency that can organically provide him that opportunity.

That, and familiarity. If him and his significant other are very comfortable in this community. We don't know whether that is or isn't the case.

There's more reasons for him to go to a different team.

He'll get a more lucrative contract else where.

He'll have a chance to go somewhere with stable ownership.

Outside of the top few teams who don't have cap to pay him anyways, it's hard to pick out a consistent contender in today's NHL - but if you're Mark Stone and you look elsewhere you can at least choose a team that has the full support of ownership, and thus is more likely to come closer to being that consistent contender than Ottawa. The Senators will never build a team under Melnyk. It's always going to be a half step forward and four steps back.

I would like to see Stone traded to Winnipeg, IF he is not signed here. Same for Duchene.

 

[HF Reader]

The only thing we have going for us in wooing Stone is that we can make him the man here. That's it. This is your team, you get to be the captain, it's your face on the poorly constructed bus shelter ads. There may not be a team in free agency that can organically provide him that opportunity.

That, and familiarity. If him and his significant other are very comfortable in this community. We don't know whether that is or isn't the case.

There's more reasons for him to go to a different team.

He'll get a more lucrative contract else where.

He'll have a chance to go somewhere with stable ownership.

Outside of the top few teams who don't have cap to pay him anyways, it's hard to pick out a consistent contender in today's NHL - but if you're Mark Stone and you look elsewhere you can at least choose a team that has the full support of ownership, and thus is more likely to come closer to being that consistent contender than Ottawa. The Senators will never build a team under Melnyk. It's always going to be a half step forward and four steps back.

Add that Stone can simply wait to see what the market offers and then decide. Why commit now?

 

[slamigo]

Why should he?

The owner told everyone that Ottawa can't offer front loaded contracts , at the town-hall meetings, last year when asked about re-signing EK65, did you miss that?

"There are teams that can out gun us 5-1, you can only go as far as you can go and we'll go as far as we can."

Most people knew what he meant, in terms of contracts with huge front loaded signing bonuses, and how players like EK may decide they like up front money, lockout protection much more than remaining in Ottawa, despite how much they say they love Ottawa.

I think that pretty much applies to any impending UFA.

You may not like that fact that you're a fan of a small Canadian market team, and all that comes with that, but that is the reality of what the NHL was become with the ever escalating Salary Cap, the lower CDN dollar vs the US dollar.

It's just a fact of life for small market Canadian teams, and if that is not palatable for you as a fan, then you always have the option of cheering for a Large Market US based team, and leave all the continuous, never ending whining behind.

You are making up your own facts to suit your viewpoint. That's totally bizarre behaviour. You're such a strange animal the way you post on these boards. You don't actually read what people write, you just invent imagined assumptions and pretend that's what the person wrote. It's a terrible attribute.
You quote the owner but the quote doesn't say what you then describe. If EM said "we can't front load contracts" then I would agree with you. But that's not what he said. That's not what Dorion said either. In fact, both the owner and Dorion have been on record as saying money wasn't the issue with EK. They never once said that EK asked for anything that they could not provide. You are stating facts that simply don't exist. Obviously there's more to it then the public will ever know or even maybe should know. But that's where it's at. You don't get to construct scenarios and call them reality. From the facts, an offer was made to EK and he did not accept it. There was no counter offer from EK. You are then inferring that he wanted up front money and lockout protection. You don't get to make that assumption. It is simply an unknown to us.

I have no problem with the Sens being a small market team. I do have a problem with the GM and the owner constantly lying about the situation and scapegoating people.
I think the fan base could stomach the truth if that's what ownership and Dorion were providing. Personally, I fully realize that if Stone and Duchene want lockout protection that the Sens cannot afford to do that. But the owner/PD will not publicly say that. They will spin this situation and then folks like you will create straw man arguments that have nothing to do with the real facts.

The problem is that EM is just one of those unfortunate souls that seems to have to burn his house down in order to finally leave it behind. I'm afraid his legacy will be nothing but scorched earth.

 

[Xspyrit]

At this point I don't even want Stone, Duchene and Dzingel to sign. I want them to be traded for usual Dorion underwhelming packages or even just walk.

I don't even care anymore, it' just insane how quickly Melnyk/Dorion/Boucher have SABOTAGED this team. Yes despite a lot of talent they totally sucked last year but the coaching and goaltending was NOT NHL level. It's impossible to compete in such a competitive league without those 2 elements. Sure there was holes in the line-up, but have people saw Vegas "roster defense" last season? Or the Pens when they last won the Cup? Or the Habs this year? They have Mike Reilly, Jordie Benn and Brett Kulak playing over 18 mins a night and are doing fine... They also had stalwarts like Alzner, Juulsen and Mete (who are not very good at the NHL level for now), Schlemko and Ouellet. You only have 2 proven guys : an aging Weber coming back from a 1 year injury and Jeff Petry who is like Ceci defensively. Price is not in his peak anymore, people thought Niemi was totally done. But their coaching staff and team cohesion make it all hold together. Look at their forward group, it's really not as good as the Sens but yet, that team is 21-14-5 and are working extremely hard and most importantly "the right way" (corsi)

Anyway, the fact that the Sens are "rebuilding" while not having their own 1st round pick is too bogus and infuriating for me. But I don't know what is more infuriating, this or the fact that the whole coaching staff WAS BACK THIS YEAR. I was candid and wanted to believe in them again but it's clearly not working out. I hate to see so much talent wasted... Stone, Duchene, Tkachuk, White, Dzingel, Ryan, Batherson, Chabot, Lajoie, Jaros, Wolanin... I'm not saying we should be competing for the Cup but I'm pretty sure most teams would be able to do something good with those players.

We just traded Karlsson and Hoffman for DeMelo, Boedker and Tierney. 2 high end players for 3 average NHLers (ok at least in the Karlsson deal they got picks and prospects). I know there's context but it's baffling nonetheless.

In the end, the only question left is :

How honest Melnyk has been about team's finances?

I would like to see Stone traded to Winnipeg, IF he is not signed here. Same for Duchene.

Me too. Because the Jets are slowly but surely overtaking the Sens for me.

Clock is ticking.

Or eventually I could come back, I guess if/when Melnyk sells and the owners are serious about competing. But it depends on what happens between then and how long it takes.

 

[branch]

Stone or Duchene signed yet?

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Booboo said Stone said they'd start talking in 2-3 weeks or somesuch.

 

[Ser Grogu]

Booboo said Stone said they'd start talking in 2-3 weeks or somesuch.

What has Pierre even been doing? Chilling at Costco?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Booboo said Stone said they'd start talking in 2-3 weeks or somesuch.

I don't doubt Stone would prefer staying. However, like Karlsson, not at any cost.

Sounds like management isn't interested if they haven't even started talking. Are they actually following the "contract negotiations with superstar Erik Karlsson" playbook?

 

[Que]

What has Pierre even been doing? Chilling at Costco?

Dem free samples.

 

[Sens]

Stone or Duchene signed yet?

Have not even started talking lol

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Booboo said Stone said they'd start talking in 2-3 weeks or somesuch.

They’ll start talking in 2-3 weeks but they’ll start discussing numbers 3 weeks after that.

 

[Spartachat]

They’ll start talking in 2-3 weeks but they’ll start discussing numbers 3 weeks after that.

I don’t think they will want to trade him until season seat renewals are over.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Stop saying this ,we are small market because our owner,s have kept us on a small market budget ...The fans have more than done their part ,the ownership of this team is what has failed this market not the other way around

Sorry, but Ottawa is not a Large Market, that has totally sold out all it's corporate suites, and has a waiting list for STHs.

I know you wish a sugar daddy would come in and save the franchise, by spending their own money, on players, operations and the Arena, and perhaps even lower ticket prices ...... but that's just a fanatasy.

The cold hard facts is that Ottawa is a Small Canadain Market, no matter how much you wish to spin it, to foist 100% of the blame for the teams' failing on the owners and management, cannot change that fact.

Ottawa is a victim of an ever escalating salary cap, with Large Market owners that can reap in huge profits from large STH bases, big broadcast deals etc, and invest those revenues in signing bonuses to attract the likes of John Tavares and others.

Ottawa is slowing being priced out the NHL, unless there's some serious changes in the next CBA, to account for all small market teams that no longer have a hope in hell of competing with the large markets.

If you just want to focus on the doofas owner, and think everything can be fixed with a new owner, and Ottawa will on par with the likes of Toronto and other large markets, and not look at what are the real reasons small market teams, like Ottawa have to operate the way they do, then you're going to so totally disappointed when the next owner has to operate the franchise the same way the previous owners had to, just to survive .......... unless the NHL addresses the underllying issues that create a groups of haves and have nots franchises.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Still no negotiations?!?! Hahahaha ya we all know where this is headed. Can't wait to see them trip all over a poorly thought out spin job after theybtrade him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Small market,money in for money out ,we can only hire coaches that dont have the walk on water ability ...The message from this team since inception has been the exact same .....And people wonder why fans are fed up ....Its been over two decades of the same crap ,we pay to support our team yet we never get the team we payed for

Yes we do.

The "market" in Ottawa can only support a team the revenues it generates can pay for.

Do you really believe that Ottawa could support the operating budget a team like Toronto has?

How do you think the 4000 STH base in Ottawa ranks vs the STH in Toronto?

What about merch. sales, Toronto vs Ottawa?

How about their respective TV contracts?

I see that you have come to the realization that it's just not this current owner, but all owners from the teams' inception that have had to structure their operational budget, to be commensurate with the market it operates in, otherwise they'd not be able to survive.


It's time to stop blaming whomever the owner is, it's the flawed CBA, that has loopholes that larger market richer teams can exploit.

Do you honestly believe EK moved on from Ottawa, because he did not know that Ottawa was never going to be able to offer him a $7 Million US dollar signing bonus in his next 4 years of his next contract?

It was not because the owner is cheap, it's because the small Ottawa market cannot a support a team as if it's getting the same revenues as a franchise like Toronto is.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I have a hard time believing they have not had negotiations given @benjiv1 has given us some info already, and he is usually bang on.

 

[Fandlauer]

Still no negotiations?!?! Hahahaha ya we all know where this is headed. Can't wait to see them trip all over a poorly thought out spin job after theybtrade him.

Only had a year and a half. Pierre's been busy. Stones a bad teammate. Fixed the room. Something something.

 

[Handles1919]

I have a hard time believing they have not had negotiations given @benjiv1 has given us some info already, and he is usually bang on.

he said that it would be done in Jan that it was prepared already and both on same page but doesnt seem so. thought he'd have the C against vancouver, which he still may i guess

then a few days later said he didnt think either had any reason to sign here after the lawsuit

 

[The Lewler]

And so it begins.

The slow dance of separation from Stone.

 

[Fandlauer]

Pretty much this.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I would love for Stone to sign here long term but honestly what's the point? He's going to languish on a sub-par team that can't compete financially with the top 15 teams in the league. Yes there's good, young talent coming up through the ranks but it's not enough. We're going to have a major hole soon at the starting goaltending position, we have a major hole at the back up position, we have holes all over our defensive corps and we have holes all throughout the forward group including a slew of guys who shouldn't even be playing hockey at the NHL level.

Add on to our somewhat ineffective coaching staff (jury is out if they could perform better with a better roster) and a paper-thin front office team and what exactly are the likes of Stone and Duchene staying for? The wonderfully high tax rates? The garbage weather 6 months of the year? The lack of exciting social life options?

Better that he goes. This team is careening toward oblivion. This league can't support small market teams with limited revenue potentials. Our TV deal that we celebrated a few years ago is basically the equivalent of food stamps compared to some of the other teams around the league. There's no corporate base to speak of. A disengaged season-ticket base. And two Goliath markets flanking us on either side who both seem to be on the upswing after years of dormancy.

Things aren't bleak in Ottawa. They're "annihilation meteor heading towards the Earth with guaranteed extinction of all species".

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Booboo said Stone said they'd start talking in 2-3 weeks or somesuch.

I would have suspected had both sides mutually wanted to be in Ottawa that a base for a contract would have been worked on/discussed long before they were 'officially' allowed to do so and a contract would be presented very soon after Jan 1.

It would have been the logical thing to do to give this fanbase something to hang onto.

I wonder if the legal issues are causing this delay... Wouldn't surprise me if a trade was in the works either. If so I will be done for a while and I never ever say this

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Rules that the first day they can negotiate with Stone and they are last in the league