LIARS

[Gil Gunderson]

Wasn’t Karlsson in some season ticket ads as well?

What an organization.

 

[Spartachat]

Tnuoc Alucard: "I am not Pierre Dorion".

I wonder if he could be traded to the San Jose board.

 

[Spartachat]

Wasn’t Karlsson in some season ticket ads as well?

What an organization.

Karlsson is printed on some the tickets for the season ticket package along with others like Boro.

 

[alfstheman]

For what logical reason, would the owner want to "punish the fan base"???

That's way out there, if you actually believe that. I know he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and might even just be a spoon, but that's just crazy.

Maybe not so much punish the fan base for the sake of pure punishment.

More like he wont spend any more money than the absolute minimum he has to, even if we lose draft picks and lose in every trade to shed dollars. The sens fanbase has not been the kindest to Melnyk (with good reason) but he has clearly made up his mind that if the fans wont support him he wont open his wallet. Im curious to see how empty the CTC will be this year. I know after all this I will only be going if I can snag 20$ tickets :p

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Wrong
It was
They are lying
The decision was made before february to trade him
I discuss the matter with Sens of Anarchy feb 20 2018 on private convo
Stop defending them when you have no proofs and proofs exist that they had decided before.
You just look bad to try to school everybody when you are wrong

And this is "proof" that they're lying?

GMAFB.

 

[Alex1234]

And this is "proof" that they're lying?

GMAFB.

 

[Alex1234]

It was said face to face by management



But whatever

 

[BonkTastic]

Well, they did offer him an extension, and it was not accepted, so not really a fib.

Either it was not "market value" and they knew it was not going to be accepted, or EK65 had decided it was not "market value" and he rejected it.

Dorion admitted (in February) after meeting with EM, that they had decided to embark on a rebuild ....... not that he was going to trade EK65.

He did admit that he had decided at some point, perhaps after the extension offer, or before, no on knows ...... that EK65 would bring back more in a trade to start their rebuild, I guess more than another player..... he never really elaborated on how he came to choose who to trade.

In any case, it does not appear to be enough of a return for EK65 ....... and the only it might be enough, is that he fully intends to explore Unrestricted Free Agency, and both the Senators and Sharks made this trade knowing this.

If he signs an extension with the Sharks, even with the extra pick(s) if he does, this trade gets even worse.

 

[harrisb]

Which would have kicked in with his extension, in July 2019. A full year to move him.

They aren’t that smart and it would have cost melnyk bonus money. Melly don’t do bonus

 

[BondraTime]

Oh it's alright, Dorion was able to correct himself at the 1200 interview and tell everyone he only "misspoke"...

Clown. Melnyk should have sprung for some public speaking classes.

 

[Boud]

And this is "proof" that they're lying?

GMAFB.

You are clueless. Absolutely clueless.

Wouldn't be able to recognize a lie even if the person who did it would admit it.

 

[aragorn]

In my humble opinion this deal was all about money & the lack of it by this owner & because Ottawa continues to be a small market town. If it was not for revenue sharing I doubt Ottawa would still have a team, it was rumoured in the past including last yr that the league had to step in to meet payroll so the lack of capital in the capital is clearly a problem. If EK wanted what he believed to be what he was worth over $10 mil & closer to $12 mil or more per yr than I can see why this dickhead owner decided that was too much for this marketplace. Remember when their was a lockout due to salaries being out of control & now the cap is over $70 mil & continues to climb almost every yr. Can an Ottawa based team afford that? Does this area have the hockey fan base & corporate businesses in place to support it? Doesn't seem so if the rumour is true that the Sens only have a STH base of around 4,000 & more & more people talking about not buying tickets or their merchandise.

The Sens were the second worse team in the NHL last yr so we knew changes were coming. We also know that they have a decent amount of prospects who could be NHL ready & the decision was made to trade off the older players & start inserting the younger ones who are or close to being NHL ready. While every team needs some veteran players to help out the younger players they don't necessarily need their best players to be those vet players to help the younger players, especially the most expensive players. EK is clearly one of those expensive players that they decided they could not afford to keep. So is Bobby Ryan but he seems much harder to deal at this time & not surprisingly since he hasn't played all that well over that last few yrs & has been injured often.

IMO Ottawa could be in the same place with Matt Duchene although unlike Ryan he at the least has trade value, same for Stone. It seems this owner who IMO is driving all of this & forcing his management team to do his bidding & has decided that since the team was so bad last yr & STH are diminishing that to stop the bleeding is to cut costs & salaries & go with younger & cheaper players & hope for a resurgence that will draw back attention to the team & resurrect ticket sales in the next few yrs.

Who knows if this will work but if the players start to play an exciting brand of hockey which is hard to picture given this coaches systems maybe just maybe they can reignite some fan interest in the team again. It seems flawed though since IMO they have the wrong owner, the wrong GM & the wrong coach in place to pull this off. You never know though especially with younger players what they will turn into & whether any of them can become elite players who can once again contend for the playoffs & pennants. It's a bold move, maybe even stupid, but in this market they need to try something & they have decided to go in a different direction & it could take yrs before they recoup any benefits or the team could just end up folding or moving or what we all hope & that it is sold to a better ownership group with some brains & better people running the organization.

While disappointing, it is interesting & another clear indication that it's a business & while fans get very connected to some players we all know that it's always a possibility in sports that players only have so many yrs of good luck before something unexpected happens that changes everything including aging, trades & skills diminishing. Ownership cannot afford to take on very much risk in this marketplace, they need things to go well consistently for them to thrive here. Luckily for us life still goes on regardless & we all come to the realization one day that it's just a game, played for our entertainment, by people most of us will never know & it should not affect our lives detrimentally. We feel for those involved but our lives march on with more important matters. Peace to all & peace in the world. Go Sens Go.

 

[Zorf]

NO, it would have had be retroactive to the day he signed an extension ........... just like what happened with Carey Price.

How do you know for an absolute fact that it would have been retroactive, similar to what Price had?

The only people who would know this are EK, EK's agent, and Dorion.

So which one of those 3 are you?

If you're not one of those 3, then drop the absolutes. You're opening yourself up to be proven wrong.


Also, you're wrong.

 

[Sensung]

Oh it's alright, Dorion was able to correct himself at the 1200 interview and tell everyone he only "misspoke"...

Clown. Melnyk should have sprung for some public speaking classes.

Gets caught in the lie. Spins like crazy and then Count uses it to gaslight the forum.

 

[harrisb]

In my humble opinion this deal was all about money & the lack of it by this owner & because Ottawa continues to be a small market town. If it was not for revenue sharing I doubt Ottawa would still have a team, it was rumoured in the past including last yr that the league had to step in to meet payroll so the lack of capital in the capital is clearly a problem. If EK wanted what he believed to be what he was worth over $10 mil & closer to $12 mil or more per yr than I can see why this ******** owner decided that was too much for this marketplace. Remember when their was a lockout due to salaries being out of control & now the cap is over $70 mil & continues to climb almost every yr. Can an Ottawa based team afford that? Does this area have the hockey fan base & corporate businesses in place to support it? Doesn't seem so if the rumour is true that the Sens only have a STH base of around 4,000 & more & more people talking about not buying tickets or their merchandise.

The Sens were the second worse team in the NHL last yr so we knew changes were coming. We also know that they have a decent amount of prospects who could be NHL ready & the decision was made to trade off the older players & start inserting the younger ones who are or close to being NHL ready. While every team needs some veteran players to help out the younger players they don't necessarily need their best players to be those vet players to help the younger players, especially the most expensive players. EK is clearly one of those expensive players that they decided they could not afford to keep. So is Bobby Ryan but he seems much harder to deal at this time & not surprisingly since he hasn't played all that well over that last few yrs & has been injured often.

IMO Ottawa could be in the same place with Matt Duchene although unlike Ryan he at the least has trade value, same for Stone. It seems this owner who IMO is driving all of this & forcing his management team to do his bidding & has decided that since the team was so bad last yr & STH are diminishing that to stop the bleeding is to cut costs & salaries & go with younger & cheaper players & hope for a resurgence that will draw back attention to the team & resurrect ticket sales in the next few yrs.

Who knows if this will work but if the players start to play an exciting brand of hockey which is hard to picture given this coaches systems maybe just maybe they can reignite some fan interest in the team again. It seems flawed though since IMO they have the wrong owner, the wrong GM & the wrong coach in place to pull this off. You never know though especially with younger players what they will turn into & whether any of them can become elite players who can once again contend for the playoffs & pennants. It's a bold move, maybe even stupid, but in this market they need to try something & they have decided to go in a different direction & it could take yrs before they recoup any benefits or the team could just end up folding or moving or what we all hope & that it is sold to a better ownership group with some brains & better people running the organization.

While disappointing, it is interesting & another clear indication that it's a business & while fans get very connected to some players we all know that it's always a possibility in sports that players only have so many yrs of good luck before something unexpected happens that changes everything including aging, trades & skills diminishing. Ownership cannot afford to take on very much risk in this marketplace, they need things to go well consistently for them to thrive here. Luckily for us life still goes on regardless & we all come to the realization one day that it's just a game, played for our entertainment, by people most of us will never know & it should not affect our lives detrimentally. We feel for those involved but our lives march on with more important matters. Peace to all & peace in the world. Go Sens Go.

We are middle of the pack league wide in revenue. Does the $200m+ debt load this owner saddled the team with have anything to do with not being able to spend? We have greater revenues than a good portion of the league and operating income (even with the massive debt) higher than many as well.

It's Euge's only profitable business but I have a feeling that is coming to a screaching halt really soon. He's going to struggle to make payroll and debt payments and either the league steps in or the creditors take control. There is a good reason why the cirque group bought up his debt after looking at the team and Melnyk's financials, cheapest way to acquire an asset is out of insolvency.

 

[Spartachat]

In my humble opinion this deal was all about money & the lack of it by this owner & because Ottawa continues to be a small market town. If it was not for revenue sharing I doubt Ottawa would still have a team, it was rumoured in the past including last yr that the league had to step in to meet payroll so the lack of capital in the capital is clearly a problem. If EK wanted what he believed to be what he was worth over $10 mil & closer to $12 mil or more per yr than I can see why this ******** owner decided that was too much for this marketplace. Remember when their was a lockout due to salaries being out of control & now the cap is over $70 mil & continues to climb almost every yr. Can an Ottawa based team afford that? Does this area have the hockey fan base & corporate businesses in place to support it? Doesn't seem so if the rumour is true that the Sens only have a STH base of around 4,000 & more & more people talking about not buying tickets or their merchandise.

The Sens were the second worse team in the NHL last yr so we knew changes were coming. We also know that they have a decent amount of prospects who could be NHL ready & the decision was made to trade off the older players & start inserting the younger ones who are or close to being NHL ready. While every team needs some veteran players to help out the younger players they don't necessarily need their best players to be those vet players to help the younger players, especially the most expensive players. EK is clearly one of those expensive players that they decided they could not afford to keep. So is Bobby Ryan but he seems much harder to deal at this time & not surprisingly since he hasn't played all that well over that last few yrs & has been injured often.

IMO Ottawa could be in the same place with Matt Duchene although unlike Ryan he at the least has trade value, same for Stone. It seems this owner who IMO is driving all of this & forcing his management team to do his bidding & has decided that since the team was so bad last yr & STH are diminishing that to stop the bleeding is to cut costs & salaries & go with younger & cheaper players & hope for a resurgence that will draw back attention to the team & resurrect ticket sales in the next few yrs.

Who knows if this will work but if the players start to play an exciting brand of hockey which is hard to picture given this coaches systems maybe just maybe they can reignite some fan interest in the team again. It seems flawed though since IMO they have the wrong owner, the wrong GM & the wrong coach in place to pull this off. You never know though especially with younger players what they will turn into & whether any of them can become elite players who can once again contend for the playoffs & pennants. It's a bold move, maybe even stupid, but in this market they need to try something & they have decided to go in a different direction & it could take yrs before they recoup any benefits or the team could just end up folding or moving or what we all hope & that it is sold to a better ownership group with some brains & better people running the organization.

While disappointing, it is interesting & another clear indication that it's a business & while fans get very connected to some players we all know that it's always a possibility in sports that players only have so many yrs of good luck before something unexpected happens that changes everything including aging, trades & skills diminishing. Ownership cannot afford to take on very much risk in this marketplace, they need things to go well consistently for them to thrive here. Luckily for us life still goes on regardless & we all come to the realization one day that it's just a game, played for our entertainment, by people most of us will never know & it should not affect our lives detrimentally. We feel for those involved but our lives march on with more important matters. Peace to all & peace in the world. Go Sens Go.

Karlsson did not leave for the money. He left because this franchise is not managed well. Bettman has drilled it into our heads that winning makes an NHL franchise financially successful. Pittsburgh was on the verge of being moved until they got Crosby. The Blackhawks and half empty arenas before Toews and Kane. Ottawa does not have a winning culture under Melnyk. Melnyk said during the town hall he wanted young players during their ELC years and their bridge contacts, but let them move on before they reach UFA. That is a good strategy for mid-level players, but not for franchise players like Karlsson. The Islanders really wanted to keep Tavaras and made personnel changes to convince him to stay. What did Melnyk do to try to make Karlsson stay? He is ruining the Senators brand. How long will Tkachuk stay with the Sens? Will he get his pay day? The Oilers had to pay Draisatl 8.5 million for 8 years right after his ELC. We have the cap system to help teams like Ottawa stay competitive.

 

[Korpse]

Dorion admitting yesterday that they decided in February to trade Karlsson, then telling fans in THREE SEPARATE TOWN HALLS as soon as the season ended that they would be making him offers to re-sign here.

That's a DOOZY of a fib.

I can’t recall the exact quote but I took it as they identified that Karlsson would get the biggest return and it was an avenue they were going to explore but given how desperate they seemed to get rid of him, it’s reasonable to believe they had there minds made up before offering a contract.

 

[aragorn]

We are middle of the pack league wide in revenue. Does the $200m+ debt load this owner saddled the team with have anything to do with not being able to spend? We have greater revenues than a good portion of the league and operating income (even with the massive debt) higher than many as well.

It's Euge's only profitable business but I have a feeling that is coming to a screaching halt really soon. He's going to struggle to make payroll and debt payments and either the league steps in or the creditors take control. There is a good reason why the cirque group bought up his debt after looking at the team and Melnyk's financials, cheapest way to acquire an asset is out of insolvency.

Karlsson did not leave for the money. He left because this franchise is not managed well. Bettman has drilled it into our heads that winning makes an NHL franchise financially successful. Pittsburgh was on the verge of being moved until they got Crosby. The Blackhawks and half empty arenas before Toews and Kane. Ottawa does not have a winning culture under Melnyk. Melnyk said during the town hall he wanted young players during their ELC years and their bridge contacts, but let them move on before they reach UFA. That is a good strategy for mid-level players, but not for franchise players like Karlsson. The Islanders really wanted to keep Tavaras and made personnel changes to convince him to stay. What did Melnyk do to try to make Karlsson stay? He is ruining the Senators brand. How long will Tkachuk stay with the Sens? Will he get his pay day? The Oilers had to pay Draisatl 8.5 million for 8 years right after his ELC. We have the cap system to help teams like Ottawa stay competitive.

Having no knowledge of how this owner finances, manages & operates his businesses I can only surmise that mistakes have been made which have resulted in EM having money problems. But that also doesn't take away from the fact that Ottawa is a small market team that depends on walk-up sales to survive since it has been unable to increase & sustain the STH base to required levels although that could be the owners fault too. It seems that if the sports teams in this town do not have an ownership group that is well liked than they could lose substantial business & they have, in fact, the CFL football team folded twice due to piss poor ownership.

I agree with what you say but what you say continues to be money problems whether mismanaged or not & most would probably agree it has been mismanaged, at least from our perspective it seems so. EK was offered a contract & he refused to sign it probably because it was a low ball offer, it's one of the reasons he left, he could have signed it & stayed. I'm not blaming him for refusing it but he did turn it down, that's a fact. The other stuff could be true too, that he left more so because of ownership & I don't blame him for that either but I having been saying for a while that I did not think this team could afford a $10 mil or more player in this market of uncertainty.

EK has to know the situation here too, that it's a small market with a small STH base that depends on single ticket sales, that the area lacks substantial corporate investments ectera .... & there is only so much the franchise can afford. Some have been saying this for a while that Ottawa could be the Montreal Expos of the NHL, developing good young players & not be able to afford them with they reach a level of success that should earn them a big pay day.

I really hope people are right & eventually this owner does sell the team, that day can't come soon enough but we should be cautious what we hope for, new ownership may not be any better. Once upon a time we thought EM had saved the team & we all wanted poor Mr. Bryden to sell. That worked for quite a while & Ottawa had a decent team with an owner with deeper pockets & that has all come crashing down around us again. Mismanaged or just plain stupidity this owner has pissed off their fan base & I don't see that getting any better in the near future. I hope he sells.

 

[Micklebot]

Then why did they offer him an extension?

If he accepted it, what would they have done?

Would have been given a full NMC, as Carey Price was ....... or he would not have accepted.

If the hypothesis is we decided in Feb to trade him and the proof you offer to rebut it is "what if he accepted the offer, we'd be stuck with him", you can't turn around and say the offer would have had a retro-active NMC when somebody points out the obvious, that we'd trade his with a contract, because had we decided that trading him was our play, the offer we made certainly would not have included the retro NMC.

Is it possible that Dorion and company decided to rebuild in Feb, but took until after the deadline to decide that a key part of that rebuild would be trading Karlsson, sure. That's pretty much an admission that Dorion is either negligent in his job, or incompetent, soI suppose it's possible.

 

[NyQuil]

Having no knowledge of how this owner finances, manages & operates his businesses I can only surmise that mistakes have been made which have resulted in EM having money problems.

Ottawa Senators owner Melnyk in divorce proceeding

 

[Micklebot]

This is what happens when a team of people lead by a moron purges all the adults from the room. Without the likes of Murray, Leeder, and heck, I'll even include Anselmi, there was nobody left to steal the papers off the desk of the madman in charge.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

How do you know for an absolute fact that it would have been retroactive, similar to what Price had?

The only people who would know this are EK, EK's agent, and Dorion.

So which one of those 3 are you?

If you're not one of those 3, then drop the absolutes. You're opening yourself up to be proven wrong.


Also, you're wrong.

Well I think EK65 is a pretty smart guy, and ever since Marian Hossa was signed and then traded, even though he wanted to stay in Ottawa ......... lots of impending free agent who've signed extensions have negotiated a retroactive (to their final season) full NMC into the deal, to prevent the same thing from happening.......that he would have done the same (as Price).

EK is not an idiot.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I can’t recall the exact quote but I took it as they identified that Karlsson would get the biggest return and it was an avenue they were going to explore but given how desperate they seemed to get rid of him, it’s reasonable to believe they had there minds made up before offering a contract.

If they decide to rebuild it makes no sense to pay Karlsson the big bucks and doesn't make sense for Karlsson to want to stay.

As soon as they decided that a rebuild was in order, that's when they decided to trade away Karlsson. This is exactly why the organization hadn't uttered the word "rebuild" until Monday. They were lying to everyone to try to get our money.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

This is what happens when a team of people lead by a moron purges all the adults from the room. Without the likes of Murray, Leeder, and heck, I'll even include Anselmi, there was nobody left to steal the papers off the desk of the madman in charge.

Phone rings in 2010

"Brian it is me, the very large handed big brained Eugene. We need to get Gary Roberts! Very good man. The team is low energy. SAD! GET IT DONE!

"Okay Eugene, we'll do that"

Click

"We're not doing that."