Player Discussion Leon Draisaitl - 2019 All-Star

[Nostradumbass]

Funnily enough, this is actually a great argument for why they need to split these guys up.

Looking at McDavid's production with/without Draisaitl is a perfect argument why they should remain together.

 

[Aerchon]

Looking at McDavid's production with/without Draisaitl is a perfect argument why they should remain together.

I only care about wins and there is a ton of evidence that splitting two star players leads to more wins. Even if it means less points.

I don't care if McDavid wants individual trophies and points, and imo his lack of two way play this last year suggests he does. I want the team to do better.

I know this will stump some on here but McDavid and Draisaitl could each score 25% less points and still easily help the team win more by playing detailed 2 way hockey on two separate lines. Reduced ppg but twice as much time with a superstar on the ice is much harder to play against.

Toews Kane.
Crosby Malkin
Gretzky Messier

I'm shocked that they do it so little.

Heck getting Draisaitl away from McDavid in the 2016 playoffs was incredibly effective.

I can't help but think McDavid may be a bit of glory hog and wants Draisaitl on his wing to up his reputation/ppg.

 

[Soundwave]

I only care about wins and there is a ton of evidence that splitting two star players leads to more wins. Even if it means less points.

I don't care if McDavid wants individual trophies and points, and imo his lack of two way play this last year suggests he does. I want the team to do better.

I know this will stump some on here but McDavid and Draisaitl could each score 25% less points and still easily help the team win more by playing detailed 2 way hockey on two separate lines. Reduced ppg but twice as much time with a superstar on the ice is much harder to play against.

Toews Kane.
Crosby Malkin
Gretzky Messier

I'm shocked that they do it so little.

Heck getting Draisaitl away from McDavid in the 2016 playoffs was incredibly effective.

I can't help but think McDavid may be a bit of glory hog and wants Draisaitl on his wing to up his reputation/ppg.

All of those teams that split their centers up like that had adequete to great winger depth to be able to do that. Peter Chiarelli bungled that.

McDavid should want to win scoring titles, he's young and capable of doing so. Great athletes like Gretzky and Jordan go for it and make no apologies for it. Being 22 years old and "limiting" your game is nonsense, these are young horses, they need to be able to run. The team's job is to give them the team around them, not to neuter their once in a generation talent to play some crap brand of hockey.

It's not Connor's fault the team Chiarelli built has basically only 2 forwards total that can drive play with him.

2016 playoffs was a very small sample size of Leon pushing his own line.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I'll just copy/paste it in every Draisaitl thread from now until the end of time and watch all the mental gymnastics people go through to justify their hambrained opinions on the player.

Apparently you only get accurate numbers for Draisaitl if you replace McDavid with a traffic cone on the powerplay too and don't count non 5 on 5 even strength numbers and pretend short handed goals didn't happen.

Also related:

At 5 on 5 with Draisaitl, McDavid produced 47 points in 805 minutes, or .0584 points per minute, or a rate of 80 5 on 5 points over 1362 minutes.
At 5 on 5 without Draisaitl, McDavid produced 17 points in 557 minutes, .0305 points per minute, or a rate of 42 5 on 5 points over 1362 minutes.

JoeRoosterTail is sweating already after reading that post.

What would Draisaitl's points be if he wasnt wearing skates?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

JoeRoosterTail is sweating already after reading that post.

What would Draisaitl's points be if he wasnt wearing skates?

I'm sure buddy is already OilerBear-ing up a stat or two that conclusively proves that Draisaitl is the worst player in the history of the NHL, but it's hard to argue with "makes the best player in the world significantly better"

The mainboards thread I posted that originally in was glorious. It literally went from "Draisaitl needs to prove he can drive a line!" to "Okay well yeah fine Draisaitl's pretty good but he still benefits from McDavid!"

Thanks, tips.

 

[Duke74]

It blows my mind that after a 50-goal, 100-point season, this garbage still goes on.

Get a load of this genius. Currently goes by the name of Sace Fook Bucks. Click on the tweet to get the full conversation.



and



This just exemplifies part of the reason I deleted my Twitter account. I lost several brain cells just trying to discern this guy's logic. Surprised Heather, an intelligent fan, engaged with him for this long.

 

[nabob]

It blows my mind that after a 50-goal, 100-point season, this garbage still goes on.

Get a load of this genius. Currently goes by the name of Sace Fook Bucks. Click on the tweet to get the full conversation.



and



This just exemplifies part of the reason I deleted my Twitter account. I lost several brain cells just trying to discern this guy's logic. Surprised Heather, an intelligent fan, engaged with him for this long.

The mains is full of the same garbage everyday.

 

[oobga]

The only good thing Looch did the last couple years was prove how points are not automatic just because you play with McDavid. You actually have to be able to do some stuff

 

[Duke74]

The mains is full of the same garbage everyday.

Thank goodness I've never ventured there

 

[Del Preston]

JoeRoosterTail is sweating already after reading that post.

What would Draisaitl's points be if he wasnt wearing skates?

Guess who just responded to @ChaoticOrange's post on the trade board and thinks it's a bad thing Draisaitl would "only" be an 80-point player if he played 5-on-5 all season with 3rd and 4th liners.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Guess who just responded to @ChaoticOrange's post on the trade board and thinks it's a bad thing Draisaitl would "only" be an 80-point player if he played 5-on-5 all season with 3rd and 4th liners.

He forgot the three shorthanded goals, too.

I’ll yell at him and our favourite dated movie reference more tomorrow. I’ve worked most of the last 36 hours and I’m beat.

 

[Del Preston]

He forgot the three shorthanded goals, too.

I’ll yell at him and our favourite dated movie reference more tomorrow. I’ve worked most of the last 36 hours and I’m beat.

My chains come off tomorrow.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He forgot the three shorthanded goals, too.

I’ll yell at him and our favourite dated movie reference more tomorrow. I’ve worked most of the last 36 hours and I’m beat.

36 hours? I bet JoeRoosterTail has worked that many in the past 2 days trying to find ways to discredit Draisaitl.

 

[Fourier]

I only care about wins and there is a ton of evidence that splitting two star players leads to more wins. Even if it means less points.

I don't care if McDavid wants individual trophies and points, and imo his lack of two way play this last year suggests he does. I want the team to do better.

I know this will stump some on here but McDavid and Draisaitl could each score 25% less points and still easily help the team win more by playing detailed 2 way hockey on two separate lines. Reduced ppg but twice as much time with a superstar on the ice is much harder to play against.

Toews Kane.
Crosby Malkin
Gretzky Messier

I'm shocked that they do it so little.

Heck getting Draisaitl away from McDavid in the 2016 playoffs was incredibly effective.

I can't help but think McDavid may be a bit of glory hog and wants Draisaitl on his wing to up his reputation/ppg.

The Hawks were most successful with Toews and Kane together. Crosby and Malkin do not play all that well together. Their styles do not mesh. Gretzky had Kurri who fit his game in much the same way as Draisaitl fits with McDavid. Messier had Anderson. There is lots of evidence that pairs are what really make a difference.

The problem with your argument as I see it is that defensive schemes these days are capable of neutralizing individuals. Draisaitl and McDavid together are much more difficult to handle than the two separately. The reality is that there is almost no difference in Draisaitl centering the second line vs Nuge centering the second line. But there is a massive difference between McDavid/Draisaitl and McDavid/XXX.

Take a look at the playoff stats again and you will see that in reality it was not really clear that splitting them up was as impactful as you might think. At 5 vs 5 they played 116 minutes together and the Oilers scored 6 times while giving up 3 goals for a 66.7% GF.

By himself McDavid played 97 minutes and went 3GF 5GA while Leon had 6GF and 3GA in 82 minutes. But the latter is a bit deceptive because most of the positive happened in one game (game 6 vs Anaheim) where Leon basically generated goals off a the rush. But as a unit his line was dominated. The SF% were 47.29% together. 40% when McDavid was by himself and 37.65% for Leon by himself. If you believe in this stuff the XGF% was 51% together, 39.28% McDavid alone, 40.26% Leon alone and for added measure with neither on the ice it was 49.79%.

This is not to say that you should never break them up. Depending on circumstance it is great to be able to do so. But as of now the evidence that the team does better when they are together is quite strong.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I'm shocked that people could actually believe that in this modern era one player could carry another to a 50-50 season.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

You also need to look at how badly the other 3 lines get completely caved in when one of them isn't on the ice. Our issue wasn't top line scoring, it was our depth getting carved a new @$$hole.


If we can Roll McD-Drai-Nuge down the middle carrying 3 separate lines I think there's a higher chance our depth doesn't get completely carved which I believe would lead to more wins.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Let me extrapolate on this for a second:

The 32nd highest scoring centre in the NHL last season had 66 points.
60-66 points is an elite 2nd line Centre. Draisaitl will easily cover that bet and then some away from McDavid.

The 63rd highest scoring center had 42 points.
38-42 points IS an elite 3rd line Centre. RNH easily covers that bet and then some.

32nd scoring:
LW - 41 points.
RW - 47 points.

63rd highest scoring:
LW 28 points.
RW got 25 points.

We have such immense dominance at Center, and we're being absolutely foolish not to exploit it.

If we can get Drai to carry 2 guys to 40 point seasons, and Nuge to carry 2 shlubs to 25 point seasons, we have what would be considered ELITE depth.


All we would need from McDavid is to tread water.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

You also need to look at how badly the other 3 lines get completely caved in when one of them isn't on the ice. Our issue wasn't top line scoring, it was our depth getting carved a new @$$hole.


If we can Roll McD-Drai-Nuge down the middle carrying 3 separate lines I think there's a higher chance our depth doesn't get completely carved which I believe would lead to more wins.

Except, McDavid and Draisaitl are the best pair in the world and utterly dominate everytime they're on the ice. Add to that they play atleast 1/3rd of the game, means that for an entire period these 2 are on the ice.

The issue, as I see it, is making sure the 2nd line is dangerous and lines 3 & 4 play even, after that you're laughing.

You don't remove a situation of extreme advantage, because you might make mild improvements else where.

That Square peg is going to fit, I just need to hit a little harder.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Except, McDavid and Draisaitl are the best pair in the world and utterly dominate everytime they're on the ice. Add to that they play atleast 1/3rd of the game, means that for an entire period these 2 are on the ice.

The issue, as I see it, is making sure the 2nd line is dangerous and lines 3 & 4 play even, after that you're laughing.

You don't remove a situation of extreme advantage, because you might make mild improvements else where.

That Square peg is going to fit, I just need to hit a little harder.

It's shifting an extreme advantage to another extreme advantage while also covering an extreme weakness.

We are literally talking about squandering the best center depth in the league to stack a single line.

 

[CupofOil]

I'll just copy/paste it in every Draisaitl thread from now until the end of time and watch all the mental gymnastics people go through to justify their hambrained opinions on the player.

Apparently you only get accurate numbers for Draisaitl if you replace McDavid with a traffic cone on the powerplay too and don't count non 5 on 5 even strength numbers and pretend short handed goals didn't happen.

Also related:

At 5 on 5 with Draisaitl, McDavid produced 47 points in 805 minutes, or .0584 points per minute, or a rate of 80 5 on 5 points over 1362 minutes.
At 5 on 5 without Draisaitl, McDavid produced 17 points in 557 minutes, .0305 points per minute, or a rate of 42 5 on 5 points over 1362 minutes.

Great couple of posts. I constantly have to explain this to people on the main board and, sadly, on this board too that McDavid and Draisaitl benefit each other and both of their numbers drop off away from each other because the Oilers don't have any wingers worth a damn to pair them with when they are driving their own line in the case of Drai and RNH especially who gets stuck with the scrubs constantly, something that McDavid has never had to deal with here outside of very small sample sizes.

We should bump this thread every time somebody says that Drai is a product of McDavid and/or he's incapable of driving his own line. Two statements that make me want to bang my head against a wall endlessly.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

36 hours? I bet JoeRoosterTail has worked that many in the past 2 days trying to find ways to discredit Draisaitl.

He backpedalled a little bit, but he's still holding his ground.. if he remains stubborn I'll deep dive the Sharks forwards.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

Let me extrapolate on this for a second:

The 32nd highest scoring centre in the NHL last season had 66 points.
60-66 points is an elite 2nd line Centre. Draisaitl will easily cover that bet and then some away from McDavid.

The 63rd highest scoring center had 42 points.
38-42 points IS an elite 3rd line Centre. RNH easily covers that bet and then some.

32nd scoring:
LW - 41 points.
RW - 47 points.

63rd highest scoring:
LW 28 points.
RW got 25 points.

We have such immense dominance at Center, and we're being absolutely foolish not to exploit it.

If we can get Drai to carry 2 guys to 40 point seasons, and Nuge to carry 2 shlubs to 25 point seasons, we have what would be considered ELITE depth.


All we would need from McDavid is to tread water.

Oilerbear bit you, didn't he?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Great couple of posts. I constantly have to explain this to people on the main board and, sadly, on this board too that McDavid and Draisaitl benefit each other and both of their numbers drop off away from each other because the Oilers don't have any wingers worth a damn to pair them with when they are driving their own line in the case of Drai and RNH especially who gets stuck with the scrubs constantly, something that McDavid has never had to deal with here outside of very small sample sizes.

We should bump this thread every time somebody says that Drai is a product of McDavid and/or he's incapable of driving his own line. Two statements that make me want to bang my head against a wall endlessly.

Thank you. I don't know why it's so hard for people to comprehend that both players are really good and benefit from playing together.

I mean, is 34 points at 5 on 5 elite production? No, it's not... but when you consider the pile of dregs that Draisaitl had to lug around when playing 2C, the picture gets a lot clearer. Show me another C in this league not named Crosby that could put up 80-83 points playing with Milan Lucic and Tobias Rieder.

 

[McFlash97]

Anyone who thinks Draisaitl is a byproduct of McDavid knows very little about hockey. Even less about the Oilers.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

So IMO it'd be unfair to expect Drai to replicate or surpass last seasons results, so what would be seen as a successful season if he's with Connor most of the season? 80ish points? Naturally I'd love a repeat performance or him and Connor being 1-2 in the NHL scoring race but those are unfair expectations and would only be gravy if it somehow were to happen.