Lefebvre Discussion

[PaulD]

Watched SL coach in Hamilton for years. Listened to SL coach in Hamilton for years.

My conclusion.

He is not a coach but he plays (a poor one) on TV.

 

[montreal]

It was well known that Aleksandra Worniak publicly criticized the Habs org. a couple of times for mishandling his boyfriend and one of those critics was about the methods used to improve his skating.. Apparently they were using elastics to increase the resistence or something like that and she tweeted that it was inhumain pratics..

Apparently we have a very different vision of Leblanc in time... I named you 4-5 guys who outproduced Leblanc big time despite being 2 years yonger or unddrafted that are playing in the NHL, Leblanc's producion while playing for the Juniors was average, that kind of offensive stats in juniors doesnt usually look good as a potential top 6.. In fact the best comparison for Leblanc would be Danault.. they basically have the same offensive stats at their last junior season and were known first and foremost for their solid 2-way play and compete level more than for the skills.. Now why is Danault in hte NHL and Leblanc has busted? Speed and determination...

Yes I know Wozniak complained about his treatment but how do you know he went crying to her, maybe she did it on her own?

But I clearly suggested you not look at the numbers for a second and look at the picture his develop path painted, guess you aren't able to do that. Why did Leblanc bust, could be several reasons. His skating, not getting stronger, his ankle injury, his lower confidence since I assume going from being on pace to put 20 pts in the NHL as a 20 year old to being taken off the PP and top line in the AHL the next 2 years is going to really impact your confidence level. Would things have gone different with a different coach? Maybe, maybe not, I think it's very hard to say, just that things were clearly going in one direction imo and then they went in the other direction. I certainly don't think Lefebvre did him any favors, and I do think that a better coach could have helped Leblanc more, now maybe in the end the results would have been the same in that he would be out of the NHL by now and that seems likely since his skating and strength never seemed to improve.

 

[dcyhabs]

I checked on how many players in the habs org improved significantly in the AHL year over year. A Kostitsyn, Pacioretty, Morgan Ellis, and I don't see many more. Several players made the jump without needing a second year so that skews the statistics. How common is it for players to improve year over year in the AHL? Seems to me that improvement is expected but I could be wrong.

I'm only looking at scoring... Maybe the emphasis on team defence restricts offensive upside? Some of the D improved in quality if not in points.

 

[Doc McKenna]

I checked on how many players in the habs org improved significantly in the AHL year over year. A Kostitsyn, Pacioretty, Morgan Ellis, and I don't see many more. Several players made the jump without needing a second year so that skews the statistics. How common is it for players to improve year over year in the AHL? Seems to me that improvement is expected but I could be wrong.

I'm only looking at scoring... Maybe the emphasis on team defence restricts offensive upside? Some of the D improved in quality if not in points.

DD perhaps?

 

[dcyhabs]

DD perhaps?

True. Contrasted DD's AHL improvement with Hudon's sameness in another post then forgot him here.

 

[Goldenhands]

Yes I know Wozniak complained about his treatment but how do you know he went crying to her, maybe she did it on her own?

But I clearly suggested you not look at the numbers for a second and look at the picture his develop path painted, guess you aren't able to do that. Why did Leblanc bust, could be several reasons. His skating, not getting stronger, his ankle injury, his lower confidence since I assume going from being on pace to put 20 pts in the NHL as a 20 year old to being taken off the PP and top line in the AHL the next 2 years is going to really impact your confidence level. Would things have gone different with a different coach? Maybe, maybe not, I think it's very hard to say, just that things were clearly going in one direction imo and then they went in the other direction. I certainly don't think Lefebvre did him any favors, and I do think that a better coach could have helped Leblanc more, now maybe in the end the results would have been the same in that he would be out of the NHL by now and that seems likely since his skating and strength never seemed to improve.

Were Lefebvre's clones coaching Leblanc in Norfolk, Bratislava ect ect..?

 

[FF de Mars]

Would you want him playing for SL?

The SL hate is overated, SL can't be that bad.

 

[montreal]

Were Lefebvre's clones coaching Leblanc in Norfolk, Bratislava ect ect..?

once you ruin your confidence it can be really hard to get it back. Hockey is so much a mental game.

 

[Jeffrey]

The SL hate is overated, SL can't be that bad.

Unless proven otherwisw he is that bad.

His track record speak by itself.

 

[Gally11]

Scherbak has been handled very poorly in the AHL so far, but he did finish on the 1st line (he should have been there instead of the 3rd line imo). As a 20/21 year old he ended up 2nd on the team in assists, 3rd in points and 4th in goals. That's what you want to see.

Poehling likely would have put up big time numbers if he just stayed in the USHS. As a 17 year old in the NCAA it's really hard to gauge his numbers as it's not there are a ton of 18 year olds so he was very young for the league. I'll need to see where he fits on the team next year, as most if not all SCSU top scorers are returning as they had a young team last year. If he gets a regular spot on the PP, I hope he could put up 25 or so pts.

Not to mention Scherbak was miserable out here in St. John's, seemed to really miss home being out here on this very lonely island. Especially for a Russian kid.

 

[Goldenhands]

Scherbak has been handled very poorly in the AHL so far, but he did finish on the 1st line (he should have been there instead of the 3rd line imo). As a 20/21 year old he ended up 2nd on the team in assists, 3rd in points and 4th in goals. That's what you want to see.

I guess its a matter of perspective here.. The kid has some big holes in his game and his work ethic isnt always there so I dont think putting him on the first line all the time with guarenteed first PP minutes when he doesnt deserve it, sends him the right message.. At some point he has to earn his playing time.. Is it what you call being handled poorly or you have other arguments against Lefebvre??

 

[Belial]

I guess its a matter of perspective here.. The kid has some big holes in his game and his work ethic isnt always there so I dont think putting him on the first line all the time with guarenteed first PP minutes when he doesnt deserve it, sends him the right message.. At some point he has to earn his playing time.. Is it what you call being handled poorly or you have other arguments against Lefebvre??

He's going to tell you Lefebvre tried Scherbak at center...

Honestly, there's way too much micro analysis on every decision that guy takes.

Scherbak is getting a good amount of quality ice time and decent linemates, it's on him to work hard and improve.

Blaming the coaching all the time is getting old.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Any reason for such optimism ? I mean people expected Scherbak to be a 1 liner as well and he seemed to have a higher ceiling than this guy.

Personally, I never thought Scherbak was going to be an NHL player to be honest. Problem is he seems to forget that the most fundamental skill while playing ice hockey is skating. The guy is allergic to moving his feet. He's way too static and is constantly looking to slow the game down. It's not even a question of being a slow or fast skater; he just seems disinterested in skating period.

 

[Goldenhands]

He's going to tell you Lefebvre tried Scherbak at center...

Honestly, there's way too much micro analysis on every decision that guy takes.

Scherbak is getting a good amount of quality ice time and decent linemates, it's on him to work hard and improve.

Blaming the coaching all the time is getting old.

He was put at center to touch the puck more and have another vision of the game.. His play away from the puck, his positionning and his defensive play were so awful that the kid couldnt get anything going for him at some point.. Sly just wanted more involvement in the game from Scherbak..

And I agree, blaming Lefebvre for everything is apparently the new trend, but its starting to look pretty ridiculous TBH.

 

[montreal]

I guess its a matter of perspective here.. The kid has some big holes in his game and his work ethic isnt always there so I dont think putting him on the first line all the time with guarenteed first PP minutes when he doesnt deserve it, sends him the right message.. At some point he has to earn his playing time.. Is it what you call being handled poorly or you have other arguments against Lefebvre??

I can agree with that to a point. But Lefebvre has had players that are in his dog house play better and he still keeps them on lower lines. I get sending a message, he sat Ghetto once cause he wasn't moving his feet enough, next game he was back in the top 6. On top of that in the past he's taken his skilled players off the top lines and replaced them with grinders.

I know he wanted to send a message to Scherbak this year so he put him on the 4th line but then put him back on the 3rd line. Now why do I think he was handled poorly, because I think it was a bad idea to put the 2 youngest players on the team on the same line for a large amount of the season, especially compounded when those 2 players are known to have a lack of strength, defensive issues and not the hardest workers. To me, putting them on the same idea just wasn't the best way to develop him. Granted it was good that he finally moved him to the top line with Hudon and Terry but he was playing well way before that and his overall game had shown clear improvement over the start of the season when he clearly was not giving his all.

There's also how they handled him last year, I don't agree and have said so many times. Some will agree and others won't.

He's going to tell you Lefebvre tried Scherbak at center...

Honestly, there's way too much micro analysis on every decision that guy takes.

Scherbak is getting a good amount of quality ice time and decent linemates, it's on him to work hard and improve.

Blaming the coaching all the time is getting old.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with my opinions, but it's very clear you have no clue what you are talking about and are just spewing crap because you don't like my opinions. Scherbak did not get a good amount of quality ice time and decent linemates depending on your definition of good amount of quality ice time and good linemates. He was easily one of their best forwards, he should have been with Terry and Hudon as he is the most skilled player on the team for sure. He can make passes that require your best goal scorers. Scherbak spent much of the season with Audette, and still ended up 2nd on the team in assists and 3rd in points. Imo he would have had a good bit more points had they put him with the top goal scorers much sooner.

AlsoI really don't care one bit if you think blaming the guy that has 36 games of Gallagher and Beaulieu as his success stories for 5 years behind the bench is getting old.

 

[yianik]

I can agree with that to a point. But Lefebvre has had players that are in his dog house play better and he still keeps them on lower lines. I get sending a message, he sat Ghetto once cause he wasn't moving his feet enough, next game he was back in the top 6. On top of that in the past he's taken his skilled players off the top lines and replaced them with grinders.

I know he wanted to send a message to Scherbak this year so he put him on the 4th line but then put him back on the 3rd line. Now why do I think he was handled poorly, because I think it was a bad idea to put the 2 youngest players on the team on the same line for a large amount of the season, especially compounded when those 2 players are known to have a lack of strength, defensive issues and not the hardest workers. To me, putting them on the same idea just wasn't the best way to develop him. Granted it was good that he finally moved him to the top line with Hudon and Terry but he was playing well way before that and his overall game had shown clear improvement over the start of the season when he clearly was not giving his all.

There's also how they handled him last year, I don't agree and have said so many times. Some will agree and others won't.



I have no problem with someone disagreeing with my opinions, but it's very clear you have no clue what you are talking about and are just spewing crap because you don't like my opinions. Scherbak did not get a good amount of quality ice time and decent linemates depending on your definition of good amount of quality ice time and good linemates. He was easily one of their best forwards, he should have been with Terry and Hudon as he is the most skilled player on the team for sure. He can make passes that require your best goal scorers. Scherbak spent much of the season with Audette, and still ended up 2nd on the team in assists and 3rd in points. Imo he would have had a good bit more points had they put him with the top goal scorers much sooner.

AlsoI really don't care one bit if you think blaming the guy that has 36 games of Gallagher and Beaulieu as his success stories for 5 years behind the bench is getting old.

While offensive players are often told they need to work on their D game it is my view that Scherbak is the type of guy who needs to have the confidence in his game to work on other stuff, meaning if he is putting up points he will also work on D, but if he isn't producing he will still focus on offense. This guy will not do well on the bottom 6, he needs to be on the top 6 with guys who can also produce.

 

[Belial]

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with my opinions, but it's very clear you have no clue what you are talking about and are just spewing crap because you don't like my opinions. Scherbak did not get a good amount of quality ice time and decent linemates depending on your definition of good amount of quality ice time and good linemates. He was easily one of their best forwards, he should have been with Terry and Hudon as he is the most skilled player on the team for sure. He can make passes that require your best goal scorers. Scherbak spent much of the season with Audette, and still ended up 2nd on the team in assists and 3rd in points. Imo he would have had a good bit more points had they put him with the top goal scorers much sooner.

AlsoI really don't care one bit if you think blaming the guy that has 36 games of Gallagher and Beaulieu as his success stories for 5 years behind the bench is getting old.

Sure, as soon as someone is not agreeing with your opinion he's spewing crap...

At the beginning of the year, the top line was Hudon-McCarron-Terry!

Where was Scherbak supposed to play if not with the only other offensive center on the team in Audette?

Then they moved Terry to center and Scherbak was playing with Hudon and McCarron.

 

[Belial]

They moved Scherbak up when they moved Terry to Center, Scherbak didn't play with McCarron from what I recall. Scherbak should not have been on the 3rd line with Audette. I said I don't mind it when people disagree, it's when they don't know what they are talking about and try and tell me when I watched them all season long. I don't think you realize how frustrating it is to have someone try to make it sound like your opinion doesn't matter because you don't care for the coach.

But I followed the team as well, that's the point... I tried to watch as many games as I could but sometimes the terrible video quality was too much to handle.

And yes Scherbak indeed played with Audette a good amount of games but it is what it is, it's not like they had a ton of options down there...

I mean the other options where DLR and Eisenschmidt...

You can say Nikita was still playing top 6 minutes.

On October 16 the lineup was:

Hudon - McCarron - Terry
Ghetto - Audette - Scherbak

November 1st:

Ghetto - Terry - Carr
Hudon - McCarron - Scherbak

Then he got injured, when he came back he struggled, then the big club was hit by injuries and the farm was a complete mess with a lot of guys being called up.

Anyways I know you think Lefebvre has no clue but Scherbak was not mishandled IMO, it's not like he was using him on the 4th line or something...

He got a ton of PP time and was constantly used in a top 6 role.

And as sad as it sounds Audette is the only real offensive center we had down there, Terry is a winger that they used at center.

It should be a lot better this year with all the acquisitions they made, I hope Nikita explodes this year.

 

[montreal]

But I followed the team as well, that's the point... I tried to watch as many games as I could but sometimes the terrible video quality was too much to handle.

And yes Scherbak indeed played with Audette a good amount of games but it is what it is, it's not like they had a ton of options down there...

I mean the other options where DLR and Eisenschmidt...

You can say Nikita was still playing top 6 minutes.

On October 16 the lineup was:

Hudon - McCarron - Terry
Ghetto - Audette - Scherbak

November 1st:

Ghetto - Terry - Carr
Hudon - McCarron - Scherbak

Then he got injured, when he came back he struggled, then the big club was hit by injuries and the farm was a complete mess with a lot of guys being called up.

Anyways I know you think Lefebvre has no clue but Scherbak was not mishandled IMO, it's not like he was using him on the 4th line or something...

He got a ton of PP time and was constantly used in a top 6 role.

And as sad as it sounds Audette is the only real offensive center we had down there, Terry is a winger that they used at center.

It should be a lot better this year with all the acquisitions they made, I hope Nikita explodes this year.

He did use him on the 4th line and even said it was done to send a message to him. And he was NOT in the top 6 with Audette. DLR Friberg were usually the 2nd most used line after Hudon Terry. The lines did get very mixed up, but for a lot of the season, they kept Scherbak with Audette.

 

[Goldenhands]

AlsoI really don't care one bit if you think blaming the guy that has 36 games of Gallagher and Beaulieu as his success stories for 5 years behind the bench is getting old.

Personally I wasnt pointing at you specifically, I just find it boring that alot of posters say our Prospects should stay away from Lefebvre at any Price.. Lefebvre didnt have the chance to work with many quality prospects since hired but Im pretty sure he will turn it around and most of the prospects that shouldnt miss wont..

 

[montreal]

Personally I wasnt pointing at you specifically, I just find it boring that alot of posters say our Prospects should stay away from Lefebvre at any Price.. Lefebvre didnt have the chance to work with many quality prospects since hired but Im pretty sure he will turn it around and most of the prospects that shouldnt miss wont..

Why is that? What about Lefebvre makes you confident that he will turn it around? The guy as far as I know never coached a single game as a head coach before he was hired, he has almost no proven success in 5 years. Makes some very odd decisions.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Why is that? What about Lefebvre makes you confident that he will turn it around? The guy as far as I know never coached a single game as a head coach before he was hired, he has almost no proven success in 5 years. Makes some very odd decisions.

I'm not necessarily a pro Lefebvre guy but I'm just not convinced he's doing a bad job. People will cite how few developed players have come out from under him but no one seems to really cite who all these players are that should've graduated under him.

There's 2 players. LL and Tinordi. Neither of them have done anything after being away from Sly. Again, he could be fired and I could care less but I just don't think there's enough evidence for me to think that we need to make sure he doesn't handle any of our prospects.

If someone can cite any other players beside these 2 that should've graduated but didn't under Sly's care then I'm all ears.

 

[montreal]

I'm not necessarily a pro Lefebvre guy but I'm just not convinced he's doing a bad job. People will cite how few developed players have come out from under him but no one seems to really cite who all these players are that should've graduated under him.

There's 2 players. LL and Tinordi. Neither of them have done anything after being away from Sly. Again, he could be fired and I could care less but I just don't think there's enough evidence for me to think that we need to make sure he doesn't handle any of our prospects.

If someone can cite any other players beside these 2 that should've graduated but didn't under Sly's care then I'm all ears.

Out of Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, McCarron, Scherbak, Hudon, DLR, Ghetto, Carr, Thomas, Holland, Nattinen, Pateryn, Lernout, Dietz, Bennett, Ellis. He should have more to show for then a struggling Beaulieu and Ghetto.

The Habs have one of the top scouts in the NHL, they didn't have trouble getting his draft picks to the NHL under different AHL coaches and now they really struggle over the past 5 years. Now that could change at some point but over 5 years there is little to show. Granted the Habs pick less and lower and that hurts but we still have a top scout that has a proven track record. Did he help the prospects development by taking them off the PP and top lines/pairings and replace them with unskilled players like Macenauer, Courtnall, Hagel, Stortini, Joe Finley, Mayer, etc...

 

[1909]

Out of Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, McCarron, Scherbak, Hudon, DLR, Ghetto, Carr, Thomas, Holland, Nattinen, Pateryn, Lernout, Dietz, Bennett, Ellis. He should have more to show for then a struggling Beaulieu and Ghetto.

The Habs have one of the top scouts in the NHL, they didn't have trouble getting his draft picks to the NHL under different AHL coaches and now they really struggle over the past 5 years. Now that could change at some point but over 5 years there is little to show. Granted the Habs pick less and lower and that hurts but we still have a top scout that has a proven track record. Did he help the prospects development by taking them off the PP and top lines/pairings and replace them with unskilled players like Macenauer, Courtnall, Hagel, Stortini, Joe Finley, Mayer, etc...

No ! And our scouting and drafting is darn weak !

Leblanc and Tinordi were- are super busts. Carr, Lehtinen, Thomas, Holland, Dietz, Bennett and Ellis are AHL aliber players forever.

Ghetto and Patteryn are in the NHL and must still prove they belong in that league.

McCarron, Hudon, Scherback, DLR, Lernout still have good chances to play at NHL level

Beaulieu ? That's anther story and it's up to him to put his **** together.

 

[Whitesnake]

No ! And our scouting and drafting is darn weak !

Leblanc and Tinordi were- are super busts. Carr, Lehtinen, Thomas, Holland, Dietz, Bennett and Ellis are AHL aliber players forever.

Ghetto and Patteryn are in the NHL and must still prove they belong in that league.

McCarron, Hudon, Scherback, DLR, Lernout still have good chances to play at NHL level

Beaulieu ? That's anther story and it's up to him to put his **** together.

Can you just tell me how the heck you know that all of those players are ONLY the result of bad drafting. Tell me how you know FOR SURE that development had no role in them not developing. 'Cause what you are doing right now is look in hindsight, see that those guys do look bad....and then succeed at ONLY thinking it's solely the draft. How do you do that?