News Article: Lebreton...Interesting...NCC

[Stylizer1]

Does the Hurdman idea allow for keeping the huge bus station that's there now, along with its dozens of platforms and bus marshalling area? I think there's enough surplus land around there but not sure. Any regular riders?

It does. Look on google maps.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I don't think Andlauer has the balls to buy the team and keep it in Kanata tbh. Its a great way to erase a majority of the goodwill you just acquired to tell the city that the team isn't coming to play in Ottawa for the foreseeable future.

Andluer isn't the sole investor in all this either he likely paid around 500M for his ownership stake in the club less whatever he gets back from the sale of the Habs.

Claridge, Andlauer, Rocco, Yorkville Asset Management, Jeff York and Partners should have the capital and experience to get this done with the City having aligned interests as well.

Has Andlauer made one single comment about building a new arena? There is no good will to be lost because that isn't the horse he rode in on.

The media, fans, the Remington group, Bettman and the worthless MOU with the NCC have created this frenzy about an arena but Andlauer has always been about the hockey. And whether you want to believe this or not, all of the other investors are in it for the hockey as well.

Also, we will find out soon but Andlauer controls more than the 55% you're claiming.

Lastly, Kanata et al. has a high concentration of wealth, downtown Ottawa has a high concentration of people. The two are not synonymous. As much as we all hate to admit it, from a demographic perspective, for someone who just invested upwards of a billion dollars, the CTC is the safe play until depreciation forces his hand.

I'm not saying decades from now but if you put yourself in his shoes and wrap your head around the numbers you will see that there is no rush. He is in risk mitigation mode right now, big time.

The only variable against that, which few people talk about, is the value of the CTC and surrounding land. If the CTC is worth + - 40,50% of a new arena and if a highway robbery deal can be worked out with a desperate Sutcliffe then maybe there is a chance that things move quickly.

Otherwise, I'm just saying- don't get your hopes up.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

It will get built in 6-10 years, (min/max), so a median of 8 years
the Mayor said, in 2-3 years, more sites are likely to become available, that could be even better.
A lot depends what the NCC offers, even then, there are other issues there.

Just like in any other business…. The new owners come in, and will squeeze as much life out of the CTC as possible, and relocate along their timeline….and if this process creates a competitive bargaining position….NCC vs Feds vs City… all the better for the senators to extract any “deals” being offered to relocate their Arena.

 

[ottawah]

I've always been a fan of the area between St Laurent shopping center and the ball diamond. Looks to be 60+ acres, over half just parking lot. What left is just big box stores that are easy to demolish/relocate, and largely one mid sized older government building. Its very close to the LRT at St Laurent, but that could also be changed to run straight down to almost the ball diamond (cost to build under queensway?). You could build interchanges to the 417 easily enough.

Largely undeveloped land big enough for arena/parking, LRT, direct and quick access to the Queensway, and relatively central.

But my thinking is straight forward. Any site without easy access to the 417 is going to limit a lot of people from going. A lot of the richer Ottawtonians (who buy tickets) are going to be car only.

 

[GCK]

It’s likely going to be Lebreton, but if not it has to be right downtown or stay in Kanata.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I've always been a fan of the area between St Laurent shopping center and the ball diamond. Looks to be 60+ acres, over half just parking lot. What left is just big box stores that are easy to demolish/relocate, and largely one mid sized older government building. Its very close to the LRT at St Laurent, but that could also be changed to run straight down to almost the ball diamond (cost to build under queensway?). You could build interchanges to the 417 easily enough.

Largely undeveloped land big enough for arena/parking, LRT, direct and quick access to the Queensway, and relatively central.

But my thinking is straight forward. Any site without easy access to the 417 is going to limit a lot of people from going. A lot of the richer Ottawtonians (who buy tickets) are going to be car only.

It might work, but it would be a tight fit. The main squeeze would be the distance from the Queensway to Coventry Road. The arena itself wold take up the footprint of the government building and a bit beyond. Still need room for parking and the entertainment area, though. And I don't know if those box stores to the west would be interested in selling. Not to mention the buildings on the north side of Coventry. That's the key...if you get a lot of turnover on that side of the road and putting some taverns and restaurants, and other hotspot type businesses, it might work out well. But it won't have that dynamic 'postcard city shot' the mayor would want.

 

[mysens]

I am also lead to believe, this transaction will not take place for some time. If they go ahead with the new arena at the location I mentioned, this could be 2 to 3 years before any shovel gets in the ground.

 

[Beech]

I am also lead to believe, this transaction will not take place for some time. If they go ahead with the new arena at the location I mentioned, this could be 2 to 3 years before any shovel gets in the ground.

if a shovel in 2-3 years and a further 2 years to build. It could mean 4-5 years before opening.

Brady, Thomas, Claude, Drake, Jacob, Artem, are gone/aged
Tim, Josh, Jake, Shane, Ridley, Tyler are prime age, but aged/expensive/restless to leave.
missed 2021, 2022, 2023 #1's is now biting them in the behind.

FYOUS is now in year 5 or 6.. You could open a building with a team on the downslope and not upslope or on-top.

Edmonton opened at the perfect time.. McDavid/Draisaitle where just coming in. RNH and Nurse were still fairly young.

Do they not risk missing a "grand opening"? Didn't shovels need to be in the ground 2 years ago?

 

[aragorn]

I think a new arena could be anywhere from 5 to 12 yrs away, 2028 - 2035. They could easily refurbish CTC in the meantime to last another 10 yrs. He could even sell the team in 5 to 10 yrs for a profit before building a new arena, lots of stuff could happen over the next decade.

 

[ottawah]

It might work, but it would be a tight fit. The main squeeze would be the distance from the Queensway to Coventry Road. The arena itself wold take up the footprint of the government building and a bit beyond. Still need room for parking and the entertainment area, though. And I don't know if those box stores to the west would be interested in selling. Not to mention the buildings on the north side of Coventry. That's the key...if you get a lot of turnover on that side of the road and putting some taverns and restaurants, and other hotspot type businesses, it might work out well. But it won't have that dynamic 'postcard city shot' the mayor would want.

Its still 60 acres (roughly eyeballing it) compared to 6.6 at Lebreton or for what is likely to be a small downtown footprint.

I'm not entirely sold on an "entertainment" district. In general they don't create demand they just take it away from other areas. In theory that should have sprung up around the current rink. But even the restaurants in the building never could stay open. Over the past 50 years trends have changed away from central gathering spots like big malls with theaters and restaurants and shopping to more diversified "be where the people are" restaurant and shopping areas. Why travel any distance when you have the same restaurants 5 minutes from your house. Now every Ottawa area boasts a large number of restaurants whereas in years past you were lucky to find more than one or two diners. Now the number of quality restaurants in places like Barhaven, Kanata, Orleans, even Stittsville measure in the dozens. So for the district to work (non game nights), you have to draw away from other equivelant suburb areas. I'm not travelling 20 minutes for an East Side Marios, or Montanas, or Milestones, when I can walk to one.


I'm willing to travel a bit to eat or drink, but it has to be a unique experience. Unfortunately, thats not really the way the restaurant industry has been trending, especially the suburbs where the vast majority of people with disposable income live.

Theaters? Most people would sooner save the 30 bucks wait 6 months for it to come out on streaming and enjoy it on their 80 inch 4K TV. Even there there are theaters much closer that are just as good. Nightlife? Give me bank/glebe or the market.

 

[Cosmix]

Its still 60 acres (roughly eyeballing it) compared to 6.6 at Lebreton or for what is likely to be a small downtown footprint.

I'm not entirely sold on an "entertainment" district. In general they don't create demand they just take it away from other areas. In theory that should have sprung up around the current rink. But even the restaurants in the building never could stay open. Over the past 50 years trends have changed away from central gathering spots like big malls with theaters and restaurants and shopping to more diversified "be where the people are" restaurant and shopping areas. Why travel any distance when you have the same restaurants 5 minutes from your house. Now every Ottawa area boasts a large number of restaurants whereas in years past you were lucky to find more than one or two diners. Now the number of quality restaurants in places like Barhaven, Kanata, Orleans, even Stittsville measure in the dozens. So for the district to work (non game nights), you have to draw away from other equivelant suburb areas. I'm not travelling 20 minutes for an East Side Marios, or Montanas, or Milestones, when I can walk to one.


I'm willing to travel a bit to eat or drink, but it has to be a unique experience. Unfortunately, thats not really the way the restaurant industry has been trending, especially the suburbs where the vast majority of people with disposable income live.

Theaters? Most people would sooner save the 30 bucks wait 6 months for it to come out on streaming and enjoy it on their 80 inch 4K TV. Even there there are theaters much closer that are just as good. Nightlife? Give me bank/glebe or the market.

There are only 41 NHL home games in a season, leaving 321 days without hockey fans in the arena location. The arena needs to have many more major events to draw crowds to its location. We need another major sports team! Basketball?

 

[Beech]

Its still 60 acres (roughly eyeballing it) compared to 6.6 at Lebreton or for what is likely to be a small downtown footprint.

----

Theaters? Most people would sooner save the 30 bucks wait 6 months for it to come out on streaming and enjoy it on their 80 inch 4K TV. Even there there are theaters much closer that are just as good. Nightlife? Give me bank/glebe or the market.

The entertainment dollar has two spenders.

the 40 and younger (more like the 35 and younger) and the rest of us.

The 40 and younger, are what you hope to attract and cater too. They spend recklessly. And that is a wonderful thing.

so, simply figure out how to combine a hockey arena with the needs/wants/desires of 40 and younger. Now figure out what a 40 and younger female wants.. and cater to that. Afterwards, everything simply gets pulled right along.

Mayor Sutcliff has kids in their 20's, He speaks about his step-daughter and Landsdown.. Clever man..

There are only 41 NHL home games in a season, leaving 321 days without hockey fans in the arena location. The arena needs to have many more major events to draw crowds to its location. We need another major sports team! Basketball?

41 home dates, plus 3 pre-season, plus potentially 2-16 playoffs.. a playoff home date in Toronto is $5 M a game!!!! so hockey is 44 dates, plus 2-16 so 46-60.

Other uses, 12-24 dates.

net total 58-84... that is low, but high enough to make it work.

The NBA has little interest. other leagues such as lacrosse is small fry. You have Landsdown as competition.

tie it in to other real-estate schemes and it works.

 

[ottawah]

The entertainment dollar has two spenders.

the 40 and younger (more like the 35 and younger) and the rest of us.

The 40 and younger, are what you hope to attract and cater too. They spend recklessly. And that is a wonderful thing.

so, simply figure out how to combine a hockey arena with the needs/wants/desires of 40 and younger. Now figure out what a 40 and younger female wants.. and cater to that. Afterwards, everything simply gets pulled right along.

But it also has to be good enough to entice them away from other districts, like the market for example. Its just hard to see how to compete with an established central area with significant nightlife and choices due to the close proximity of the University.

Overall I'm not the least concerned about game nights and events. The question is how you keep it going on a Tuesday night in February with no game nights.

 

[Beech]

But it also has to be good enough to entice them away from other districts, like the market for example. Its just hard to see how to compete with an established central area with significant nightlife and choices due to the close proximity of the University.

Overall I'm not the least concerned about game nights and events. The question is how you keep it going on a Tuesday night in February with no game nights.

you don't.

Your prices are hopefully so high, your profits are so insane, your live with a reduced clientele.

The team; leases. government leases!!!! Now who cares.

 

[Relapsing]

But it also has to be good enough to entice them away from other districts, like the market for example. Its just hard to see how to compete with an established central area with significant nightlife and choices due to the close proximity of the University.

Overall I'm not the least concerned about game nights and events. The question is how you keep it going on a Tuesday night in February with no game nights.

If the CTC can draw big name events in February then so will a downtown arena, and I suspect they'd be even more well attended at that.

Search for Canadian tire events history, and you'll find a full list of events going back to 1996!

Seems there's always an event or more in February. Or any month, for that matter.

I just don't really understand the thought line that it will be harder or as hard to book events at a downtown arena year round. If anything it will be easier to find acts, and put butts in seats.

 

[Micklebot]

Firestone on Coming in hot,

Accuses NDP (Bob Ray) of putting a stick in the spokes of the Sens during the early days to try and make it more likely that the Sens fail and have to move to Hamilton since they had a bunch of MPPs from the Hamilton area, lol.

Says Lebreton is still his choice for location, thinks the original Cyril Leeder/Melnyk plan was outstanding, but the 6 acres simply isn't enough to do that.

Thinks Lebreton could take 60 months or if they go slow, 10 years, anywhere else would take a lot of effort.

Talks about the impact Mike Illych had on Det development,

 

[JD1]

If the CTC can draw big name events in February then so will a downtown arena, and I suspect they'd be even more well attended at that.

Search for Canadian tire events history, and you'll find a full list of events going back to 1996!

Seems there's always an event or more in February. Or any month, for that matter.

I just don't really understand the thought line that it will be harder or as hard to book events at a downtown arena year round. If anything it will be easier to find acts, and put butts in seats.

I don't think a downtown arena will make much difference in booking bands that play those sized stadiums. They tour, if Ottawa fits the schedule they're here. If not, they skip.

 

[ottawah]

If the CTC can draw big name events in February then so will a downtown arena, and I suspect they'd be even more well attended at that.

Search for Canadian tire events history, and you'll find a full list of events going back to 1996!

Seems there's always an event or more in February. Or any month, for that matter.

I just don't really understand the thought line that it will be harder or as hard to book events at a downtown arena year round. If anything it will be easier to find acts, and put butts in seats.

I meant for non event nights.

Yes I'd think they would do better for booking events with a centralized arena, notably the more marginal ones that get missed. The high end ones do well enough they would work any place in the city.

 

[Stylizer1]

across the street from the Canada Post building on Industrial there is a large parcel of land next to The Train Yards and close to the train station/the Queensway/Hurdman.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I've always been a fan of the area between St Laurent shopping center and the ball diamond. Looks to be 60+ acres, over half just parking lot. What left is just big box stores that are easy to demolish/relocate, and largely one mid sized older government building. Its very close to the LRT at St Laurent, but that could also be changed to run straight down to almost the ball diamond (cost to build under queensway?). You could build interchanges to the 417 easily enough.

Largely undeveloped land big enough for arena/parking, LRT, direct and quick access to the Queensway, and relatively central.

But my thinking is straight forward. Any site without easy access to the 417 is going to limit a lot of people from going. A lot of the richer Ottawtonians (who buy tickets) are going to be car only.

There is no need for a direct connection to the 417, for a downtown Arena…. The reason there is so much parking at the CTC, is because it is poorly serviced by public transportation, which would not be the case with a downtown location….there will be limited parking, if any, for fans at a downtown location…. The Rendezvous Lebreton deal, that was committed to by the previous owner, only had plans for 500 parking spaces… I suspect the same will be true for whenever and wherever the new Arena is built.

 

[Beech]

There is no need for a direct connection to the 417, for a downtown Arena…. The reason there is so much parking at the CTC, is because it is poorly serviced by public transportation, which would not be the case with a downtown location….there will be limited parking, if any, for fans at a downtown location…. The Rendezvous Lebreton deal, that was committed to by the previous owner, only had plans for 500 parking spaces… I suspect the same will be true for whenever and wherever the new Arena is built.

Your buddies, the Frescho. Open doors and air conditioners.. That was last Thursday.. I walked there. Along the way, I passed an elementary school. It was graduation day.. so grade 6s.. 11 year olds.

Mom and Dad are there.. so where 100 SUVs.. But one couple caught my eye.. Mon was 38-40.. As pretty as can be.. And in an outfit that would make a stripper blush.. to her son's elementary school graduation..

Mom and Dad, put junior in the SUV and took off..

Do you figure trophy wife, in here best "oh my God, how can you wear that" wants to take the LRT to an event... really?

So hubby buys them tickets, hockey game, concert, some event.. or they decide to go down there to a bar or restaurant. Wife, hits the nail salon, hair salon. tries on 2-3 dozen outfits, to see which one she looks sexiest in..

then they walk to the bus stop and wait for the bus, then link up with the LRT and then come back home that way?

well, have it your way.

 

[Big Muddy]

Firestone on Coming in hot,

Accuses NDP (Bob Ray) of putting a stick in the spokes of the Sens during the early days to try and make it more likely that the Sens fail and have to move to Hamilton since they had a bunch of MPPs from the Hamilton area, lol.

Says Lebreton is still his choice for location, thinks the original Cyril Leeder/Melnyk plan was outstanding, but the 6 acres simply isn't enough to do that.

Thinks Lebreton could take 60 months or if they go slow, 10 years, anywhere else would take a lot of effort.

Talks about the impact Mike Illych had on Det development,

I can see why Andlauer will take his time with this. He's plunked out a lot of money so getting some of it back would make sense. I would not be at all surprised if this is 5 to 10 years out. It behooves him to have more options as far as land is concerned, so having the City compete with the NCC is a good thing. I guess the Feds could be selling some land as well although the land would have a building on it so perhaps that would be less attractive (?).

The more immediate focus for Andlauer would be to increase fan attendance and making the team stronger. The latter goal will help with the former one.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Your buddies, the Frescho. Open doors and air conditioners.. That was last Thursday.. I walked there. Along the way, I passed an elementary school. It was graduation day.. so grade 6s.. 11 year olds.

Mom and Dad are there.. so where 100 SUVs.. But one couple caught my eye.. Mon was 38-40.. As pretty as can be.. And in an outfit that would make a stripper blush.. to her son's elementary school graduation..

Mom and Dad, put junior in the SUV and took off..

Do you figure trophy wife, in here best "oh my God, how can you wear that" wants to take the LRT to an event... really?

So hubby buys them tickets, hockey game, concert, some event.. or they decide to go down there to a bar or restaurant. Wife, hits the nail salon, hair salon. tries on 2-3 dozen outfits, to see which one she looks sexiest in..

then they walk to the bus stop and wait for the bus, then link up with the LRT and then come back home that way?

well, have it your way.

If there are no parking spots, provided by a downtown arena, people can choose to take public transportation or find parking somewhere close.

 

[ottawah]

There is no need for a direct connection to the 417, for a downtown Arena…. The reason there is so much parking at the CTC, is because it is poorly serviced by public transportation, which would not be the case with a downtown location….there will be limited parking, if any, for fans at a downtown location…. The Rendezvous Lebreton deal, that was committed to by the previous owner, only had plans for 500 parking spaces… I suspect the same will be true for whenever and wherever the new Arena is built.

I disagree. Access to the 417 makes it a very easy commute to a lot of people. There is nothing wrong with transit to the current rink, its 15 minutes to downtown, but people who go to games by and large just do not want to use public transit. They'd sooner sit in their cars for 30 minutes getting out, all the while paying 20 bucks for the privledge.

And I agree with the previous plans and 500 spots, I felt that was a major deterent. I'm not sure the people in Ottawa who buy tickets have a huge intersection with people who take public transit. You are going to have to find a whole new season ticket base. Now I think you will attract a lot of new fans, but the ones I know (season ticket holders) have never really used transit. They'd much rather just drive than catch a crowded train to catch a crowded bus to get to a park and ride to drive home. If these were people that used transit regularly, its not an issue.

The team will also have to up prices by ~10% just to make up for lost parking revenue.

If there are no parking spots, provided by a downtown arena, people can choose to take public transportation or find parking somewhere close.

Or choose not to go, which is my concern.

 

[aragorn]

Maybe the Sens should do something similar to what the RedBlacks do & pay OC Transport to transport people to Lansdowne park for free. We drive to the Centrum mall & park for free, then grab something to eat & drink before the game, then get on the bus for free that takes us to Lansdowne park for the game & back after the game for free.

It's easy, you don't have to worry about parking & get into your car & drive home without any traffic from pretty much anywhere in town. It would certainly make it easier for some people to get to games & back home quickly after games without the hassel of driving. Clearly there are a lot less home games in football & it would be much more expensive for hockey but it does take away the stress from driving. It was great when restaurants had the free bus service too, but Covid killed that for most restaurants & apparently it wasn't paying off for them.