Post-Game Talk: Leafs surrender 5 and then fall short on comeback to Chicago

[therealkoho]

3 post's, some really sketchy refereeing, some amateur positioning by a referee breaking up a Leafs cycle when the Hawks were bone tired playing on concrete legs and some really listless and irresponsible play for most of the 1st period

is the story of this game

 

[RLF]

Do we need to stack a line a la Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak? MacKinnon/Rantanen/Landy?

A popular theme on here and I can understand the thought behind it. My issue is that the teams like you mention have players that are aggressive and hound the puck. No one would question those guys drive and desire. If we remove Hyman and say Johnsson form our top 6...who does any of the aggressive forecheck necessary? I just don't think we have the right mix of top talent to load lines. Just my opinion though.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Is there a NHL rule which states if a goalie knocks off the net intentionally in last 2 minutes of a game when a scoring chance is occurring that it is an automatic penalty shot?

I know for sure a non goalie hand in crease which grabs the puck is awarded a penalty.

 

[socko]

The most stacked line we could possibly have would be:

Matthews Tavares Marner

you could fill it out with:

Johnsson Nylander Kapanen (Kapanen would cover for the weak defense of the other 2).
Marleau Kadri Hyman (Hyman played RW in college)
Ennis Gauthier Moore

I'd give it a chance.

 

[RLF]

The Mathews goal was a result of them making a few passes in the D-zone to get up the ice and they CARRIED it into the zone resulting in sustained pressure and a goal. If you have "light" players...dumping it in the zone and failing to have a real forecheck is not what I call smart hockey. I sometimes thing the players are giving close to 100% in these games but because of the system it looks like 80%. So in effect they have to play at 110% effort to make up for the stupid system and then we complain they just "turned it on" for a few minutes. Maybe they can't keep that high of an effort going all the time to counter the dumb things they are being taught to do.

I can just imagine being a player and having this system handicap you constantly and being told its your fault for not trying hard enough. I think I would tune this idiot out. For all the Babs is the best crowd out there I have to ask you this: With all of that talent on his Wings teams, do you not think he should have won more than 1 cup? He had 5 hall of famers on that team and won 1 cup. Carlyle won 1 cup...so did Torts and so on.

I'm not part of the Babs is best crowd. That said, I don't think he is a horrible coach either. The issue is, can our players be trusted to play another system? Will they make the right reads etc? All our systems are designed to play "safe" imo. I would suggest that Babcock is not confident that this group will work hard enough to play systems that would require that.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

The Mathews goal was a result of them making a few passes in the D-zone to get up the ice and they CARRIED it into the zone resulting in sustained pressure and a goal. If you have "light" players...dumping it in the zone and failing to have a real forecheck is not what I call smart hockey. I sometimes thing the players are giving close to 100% in these games but because of the system it looks like 80%. So in effect they have to play at 110% effort to make up for the stupid system and then we complain they just "turned it on" for a few minutes. Maybe they can't keep that high of an effort going all the time to counter the dumb things they are being taught to do.

I can just imagine being a player and having this system handicap you constantly and being told its your fault for not trying hard enough. I think I would tune this idiot out. For all the Babs is the best crowd out there I have to ask you this: With all of that talent on his Wings teams, do you not think he should have won more than 1 cup? He had 5 hall of famers on that team and won 1 cup. Carlyle won 1 cup...so did Torts and so on.

 

[IPS]

Is there a NHL rule which states if a goalie knocks off the net intentionally in last 2 minutes of a game when a scoring chance is occurring that it is an automatic penalty shot?

I know for sure a non goalie hand in crease which grabs the puck is awarded a penalty.

I would love to see if there is.

That was utterly f***ing disgraceful last night when that happened. This league clearly has no interest in holding refs accountable though.

 

[DanM]

We have a pretty uninterested hockey team.

Unfortunate. Considering we have a very fun group of players when interested in playing.

Matthews is worrisome. I'm not the guy to jump the gun... But he's hard to watch when he isn't engaged or trying to create

This ^^ is really worrisome. The team in general plays terrible positional defence, just no desire to control gaps, and has shown no ability to adapt on either side of the puck (stretch pass) out of all the contenders, we are the easiest to defend.

Matthews is alarming because if he is not still hurt, than he must be tuning out Babs..... it cannot be anything else. He is an elite level talent, and down the stretch is when he should want to take over games.

This team needs some serious changes or we will fail every year, no matter how many fans on here talk about our GA lol

Like what a stupid argument that was "but our GA is so good"

Jesus, you can see we don't play well on defence.

 

[ACC1224]

When you pull the Goalie with 3 minutes left you can't stack one line or you'll have no one left to throw out when a line change is needed.

 

[Suntouchable13]

This ^^ is really worrisome. The team in general plays terrible positional defence, just no desire to control gaps, and has shown no ability to adapt on either side of the puck (stretch pass) out of all the contenders, we are the easiest to defend.

Matthews is alarming because if he is not still hurt, than he must be tuning out Babs..... it cannot be anything else. He is an elite level talent, and down the stretch is when he should want to take over games.

This team needs some serious changes or we will fail every year, no matter how many fans on here talk about our GA lol

Like what a stupid argument that was "but our GA is so good"

Jesus, you can see we don't play well on defence.

In the playoffs, Boston exposes our weaknesses so easily. It's laughable.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

My son keeps telling me that the correct call on the ice should have been the awarding of a penalty shot. That it was a missed delay call by the ref? If so that is a very bad missed call given the ref was standing right by the post. Maybe there should be an investigation into that ref and whether he was intentionally screwing over the Leafs?

 

[DanM]

He will temporally redeem himself if he fires Babcock. Then he has to get over his millennial obsession with non aggression and get some skilled meanies on his team.

^^^^ The bolded is priceless! the hipster millennial attitude

 

[DanM]

In the playoffs, Boston exposes our weaknesses so easily. It's laughable.

Boston will beat our asses 4 straight if we don't play better

And 4 straight by a large margin

 

[deletethis]

The only statistic about Nylander that matters is his own performance. He doesn't magically make the other players worse. They are accountable for their own play.

Good, we're in agreement that Nylander's < 0.5 PPG level of production this season is entirely on his own account.

 

[Leafidelity]

Martin Marincin saw icetime with the goalie pulled and 3 minutes to go.

Martin Marincin cleared waivers on Feb 3rd.

 

[8816 others]

Is there a NHL rule which states if a goalie knocks off the net intentionally in last 2 minutes of a game when a scoring chance is occurring that it is an automatic penalty shot?

I know for sure a non goalie hand in crease which grabs the puck is awarded a penalty.

The teams which have been to the big show in the past decade all know what they can and can't get away with and have become masters of bending and even braking the rules to gain an advantage. Line change mix ups to delay a puck drop and give players time to catch their breath, little jabs while the refs aren't looking, licking the face, knocking the net off, etc. All good teams do it and hopefully the Leafs will eventually figure it out how to gain that edge and counter it from opposing teams.

 

[RLF]

When you pull the Goalie with 3 minutes left you can't stack one line or you'll have no one left to throw out when a line change is needed.

They can't play all 3 minutes?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

But did we get screwed over by the ref? There was no delay of game called on ice so I guess it is a mute point. I was curious if the ref did get the call correct whether we would have seen a penalty shot because the team did not have 2 minutes left in game to serve the entire penalty. And maybe when refs are not 100% sure they know this rule so they don't want game decided on a penalty shot.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

And I would think that this is something that should get a coaches challenge. It is after all a game deciding decision.

 

[Trapper]

A popular theme on here and I can understand the thought behind it. My issue is that the teams like you mention have players that are aggressive and hound the puck. No one would question those guys drive and desire. If we remove Hyman and say Johnsson form our top 6...who does any of the aggressive forecheck necessary? I just don't think we have the right mix of top talent to load lines. Just my opinion though.

The best I can see is:
1. Matthews...Tavares (can play heavy)...Marner (going to try to overwhelm in this situation)

2. Hyman...Nylander...Johnsson (Hyman gives us some of the forecheck)

3. Moore...Kadri...Kapanen (same deal as above with a little more aggressive)

4. Marleau..Goat...Brown/Ennis

This right now is the best heavy I can get around.

 

[Al14]

When you pull the Goalie with 3 minutes left you can't stack one line or you'll have no one left to throw out when a line change is needed.

So, you are saying we only have 3 star players on our Leafs? I also realize we have some injuries, but, you still have to go all out to try and win the game by playing your top 6 forwards and top 4 Dmen.

I'd say we have at least 6 dangerous forwards that could be alternated shift after shift for 30-45 seconds at a time. Same with the D. You use the top 4 D and sit the rest.

When behind in a game in the 3rd period, as a coach, I use to shorten the bench and double shift my best players. My 4th line wouldn't see the ice again until we had the lead in the game, and, even then, they were required to keep their shifts really short, like 30 seconds or so.

 

[ToneDog]

My son keeps telling me that the correct call on the ice should have been the awarding of a penalty shot. That it was a missed delay call by the ref? If so that is a very bad missed call given the ref was standing right by the post. Maybe there should be an investigation into that ref and whether he was intentionally screwing over the Leafs?

It is a judgemental call. They should change it to black and white like they do with the puck over the glass rule. Bet goalies take more care not to knock it off if they know they will get a penalty or penalty shot.

 

[biotk]

The Hawks were up 5-0. Mentally they were onto the next game. I don't give the Leafs any credit for "coming back" from a team that was already checked out. Ya they didn't quit like they did against Tampa, but they were facing no opposition...what a challenge. Wow they only quit in 50% of the games they go down big. Stanley Cup here we come!

This is the same type of comment people made last playoffs when Boston was up 5-1 in game two. The game was already over, obviously we played well.

Yeah, you might believe that all teams mentally check out when they have a solid lead, but I mean all you have do to understand that is not the case with Chicago is go all the way back to their.....previous game.

 

[therealkoho]

^^^^ The bolded is priceless! the hipster millennial attitude

i've never seen "millenial" used as an adjective before, i kind of millenially like it, i'm going to use it from now on

 

[horner]

Know we know how they can play.
We will be even more frustrated know.