Post-Game Talk: Leafs surrender 5 and then fall short on comeback to Chicago

[Morbo]

Its Russian roulette strategy, in a league built on "defense wins championships, and offense sells tickets".

I think you should go take a look at where Cup champs tend to rate offensively.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It is 2 games out of 82 and games like last 2 happen to every team so they need to be taken with a grain of salt. I did confirm with a secondary parent source that Babs has been very hard on our defense. I think it is times like this when sometimes a drill Sargent with a meticulous busy body schedule can be the wrong guy for millennials. But life is all about timing and you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. It does not mean they have tuned him out completely but maybe they have for a short period of time. At some point Babs switches up everything like last night and guys start to play hockey the way each has done before the Leafs. And then the talent shows through.

The bigger issues are our defense core and goalie.

The defense core and our systems in general are attacked oriented. Now we lose 2 guys who play that way and sub in 2 guys who are AHL quality and guess what is our defense goes from average at best to terrible. This should not be a surprise to anyone. It is not about work effort or compete at all it is about quality. Hopefully we can outscore a few more teams and get the points we need to be the away team again against Boston. I am sure we will find a way.

Our goalie has looked very tired past 3 games. This is starting to look like a problem. He needs much more rest. But this is not the babs way. He believes at his core that you put on your work boots and fight your way through issues. Well that is one school of thought. The other is when you see a guy is tired you rest him especially when the regular season is largely irrelevant. No one cares who wins the presidents trophy. Most people do not even know what it is. If Freddy is starting to have his weak times now (and is not tired) then the season is over unless he can work through the issues in the next 3 weeks. This team can only win if Freddy is a super star. We are an attack oriented team without a defensive base. So we rely on goaltending as a big part of our strategy. Even with everybody back we require great goaltending.

 

[ZEBROA]

The fans should through a app be able to give the players electric shocks. A vote system for the players(or coach) who need to wake up the most.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Thank god.
I just hope we start on the road and got absolutely destroyed by Boston, even sweeping us, so Dubas can fire this whole joke of a coaching staff.

I want everybody gone. The strech pass bull****, the terrible PP, the zero effort beginning of the games, the nonsense comments by Babcock favouring non factor players. The zero system or structure or whatever we have.

Get the **** off from this talented team and stop ruining it.

Unfortunately, even if we get swept in the playoffs I do think see any of the coaching staff being replaced. Babcock is too decorated of a coach to have him or any of his staff replaced. At this point I'm just hoping Babcock can win with a stack team here like he did in Detroit.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but at least Babcock does end up making adjustments (it just takes him way longer than it should). Although a complete beat down by Boston may accelerate some of those changes.

 

[Mess]

Which leads us to the only statistic about Nylander that matters: Since Dec. 6 until now the Leafs record places them 10th in the eastern conference - not good enough to be in the playoffs (quoted from Toronto sports radio this morning).

In the last 32 games the Leafs are 16-13-3 = 16 wins and 16 losses which is a .500 hockey team (without the loser point factored in).

That is pretty average hockey dating back to Dec of last year, and without their early hot start to the season might be fighting hard for a playoff spot right now.

 

[IBeL34f]

Two guys 4 rows in front of us did that and took grief from all sides afterwards.
They never came back to their seats for the 2nd.

Booing the Team leaving the ice after the 1st is less cut and dry.
I think that more comes down to those who shelled out for their one game a year, brought their kid and were disappointed.
I don't think anyone who attends often were booing. Other years they've deserved it, not this season.

Interesting that they played a video a few times last night about diversity and how to behave at games.
It wasn't specific to Leaf games but also Raptor, TFC, and Argos.
My last game was the Edmonton game two weeks ago so not sure if this started recently or was a response to what happened with Rielly on Monday.

I think they've been playing that before most/all home games this year - Definitely saw it before the new year.

 

[ACC1224]

I think they've been playing that before most/all home games this year - Definitely saw it before the new year.

Yeah, I can be oblivious at times.

Probably noticed it this time because of Monday.

 

[RLF]

It’s like being down 0-2 in a playoff series.
It can be corrected but you need to channel some inner aggression and work for it.

The concerning part is looking at a team that seems passive and unresponsive.

Babcock holds blame as do the players.
Babcock needs to do a better job adjusting to how these guys play.
Yes I want more physical/aggression/forecheck/puck pursuit but if they can’t do that you have to adapt to what they can.
As for Matthews, he is striking me as a moody player. He needs to get over that.

As much as you and I agree on quite a bit. Couldn't disagree more here. There is no team that can win without being willing to do what you want more of. There is no winning style that doesn't involve a certain amount of those elements...including the recent Cup wins by Pitt.

 

[Dough72]

Our goalie has looked very tired past 3 games. This is starting to look like a problem. He needs much more rest. But this is not the babs way. He believes at his core that you put on your work boots and fight your way through issues. .

agree with the rest of your post but not sure where this idea comes from? I see a coach who rests his star players far more than your average coach (hasn't everyone been complaining about minutes for the teams stars?). I don't think he plays Andersen because of some "way" he is sworn to follow he just wants hoe ice for the playoffs. It's not that unusual for good teams with a questionable backup goalie. Andersen has played 3022 minutes this year. Just quickly looking at some other good teams with a questionable backup goalie - Winnipeg played their starter 3069 minutes Washington 2087 LasVegas 3455 Tampa 2664 Montreal 3225 Nashville 2735 San Jose 3112.

 

[SprDaVE]

I will say that adversity can be good? That's about the only positive I guess...

 

[Cor]

I will say that adversity can be good? That's about the only positive I guess...

Got their asses kicked against Tampa, and then got their asses kicked in the first half against Chicago.

Hopefully the 2nd half of the CHI game was them waking up, and they go on a bit of a tear here.

 

[ACC1224]

Bright side, Andersen is getting lots of rest this week.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Even Freddy said it after the OT loss that he felt tired and not right. Look at past 2 games there were a couple pretty easy glove shots that he did not move his glove on but he saw them. I am not close enough to know for sure but if he is tired then he needs rest. It is real simple. If he is in a slump and he can't get out of it by playoff time then we are screwed.

 

[OddyOh]

Coaches should have more tools to get the team going besides yelling in the intermissions and changing the goalie.

Cattle prod?

 

[Trapper]

As much as you and I agree on quite a bit. Couldn't disagree more here. There is no team that can win without being willing to do what you want more of. There is no winning style that doesn't involve a certain amount of those elements...including the recent Cup wins by Pitt.

I don’t think we are getting by either without these elements, but if you don’t have them, or have management that doesn’t recognize getting them, you still have to do the best with what you have.

So after I realize we aren’t getting those things, is the coaching staff doing the best to ensure we are playing the only way those guys know how?

 

[rimshot]

Former NHL players say it all the time.
if you go to work - sick or not - you are expected to perform. end of story.

There is a big difference between being expected to perform and being able to perform and that is what we are talking about here. It is not like NHL competition is going to take it easier on you because you are sick. The very fact that the team did not even practice Tuesday because of the flu should tell us all we need to know.

 

[dangomon]

Which also begs the question: whose decision was it to substitute big physical 4th line board-possession players like Matt Martin and Josh Leivo for diminutive water bug skaters like we have on the other three lines? Seriously, who decided this was the way to go? Coach? GM?

The choice to get rid of them was GM, the choice to keep them in the press box (Leivo forever and Martin down the stretch/playoffs) was coach, so clearly neither thought it was in the best interest to have them on the ice.

PS. 8 mins/game of Matt Martin's pugnacity isn't the tipping point for this team.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

There is a big difference between being expected to perform and being able to perform and that is what we are talking about here. It is not like NHL competition is going to take it easier on you because you are sick. The very fact that the team did not even practice Tuesday because of the flu should tell us all we need to know.

No one gives a rats a**. I wise man once told me don't bother to tell people when you are sick because they truly don't care. If you can't get job done then call in sick.

 

[RLF]

I don’t think we are getting by either without these elements, but if you don’t have them, or have management that doesn’t recognize getting them, you still have to do the best with what you have.

So after I realize we aren’t getting those things, is the coaching staff doing the best to ensure we are playing the only way those guys know how?

You know, I have put a lot of thought into that and the big question is...can we employ another system that would benefit what assets our players have and yet be trusted to play without being exposed defensively?

 

[Trapper]

You know, I have put a lot of thought into that and the big question is...can we employ another system that would benefit what we have that our players can be trusted to play without be exposed defensively?

Do we need to stack a line a la Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak? MacKinnon/Rantanen/Landy?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Thank god.
I just hope we start on the road and got absolutely destroyed by Boston, even sweeping us, so Dubas can fire this whole joke of a coaching staff.

I want everybody gone. The strech pass bull****, the terrible PP, the zero effort beginning of the games, the nonsense comments by Babcock favouring non factor players. The zero system or structure or whatever we have.

Get the **** off from this talented team and stop ruining it.

After we went down 5-0...I started chanting "more Connor Brown" as in the SNL skit on more cow bells if anyone can remember. The odd thing is...it worked..we got MORE Connor Brown after we were down by 5. I think I should use this power of mine more judiciously in the next game...or the coach is an idiot..

 

[TheGroceryStick]

We have a pretty uninterested hockey team.

Unfortunate. Considering we have a very fun group of players when interested in playing.

Matthews is worrisome. I'm not the guy to jump the gun... But he's hard to watch when he isn't engaged or trying to create

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

You know, I have put a lot of thought into that and the big question is...can we employ another system that would benefit what assets our players have and yet be trusted to play without being exposed defensively?

The Mathews goal was a result of them making a few passes in the D-zone to get up the ice and they CARRIED it into the zone resulting in sustained pressure and a goal. If you have "light" players...dumping it in the zone and failing to have a real forecheck is not what I call smart hockey. I sometimes thing the players are giving close to 100% in these games but because of the system it looks like 80%. So in effect they have to play at 110% effort to make up for the stupid system and then we complain they just "turned it on" for a few minutes. Maybe they can't keep that high of an effort going all the time to counter the dumb things they are being taught to do.

I can just imagine being a player and having this system handicap you constantly and being told its your fault for not trying hard enough. I think I would tune this idiot out. For all the Babs is the best crowd out there I have to ask you this: With all of that talent on his Wings teams, do you not think he should have won more than 1 cup? He had 5 hall of famers on that team and won 1 cup. Carlyle won 1 cup...so did Torts and so on.

 

[socko]

Nylander was one of our best forwards tonight and was on the bench in the last minute. Way to reward your players Babs.

They already had 3 guys on the perimeter: Marner (elite passer), Rielly (Norris candidate), and Muzzin (big shot) and 3 guys fighting in front of the net (Nylander won't do that), who do you think should be replaced by Nylander?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Which also begs the question: whose decision was it to substitute big physical 4th line board-possession players like Matt Martin and Josh Leivo for diminutive water bug skaters like we have on the other three lines? Seriously, who decided this was the way to go? Coach? GM?

Although Martin was a healthy scratch under Babcock, I think it was just common sense that you can't pay a 4th liner that much. As for Leivo, Babcock just didn't like him, and probably not for his play