TSN: Leafs set to interview Treliving for GM role

[ACC1224]

Bergevin and Botterill seems to be 2 that are pretty much confirmed.

Unless I'm reading that wrong sounds like Frank is just guessing on those names.

 

[Martin Skoula]

9,5 M

Calgary you will pay
4 522 432 in taxes

In florida
3 475 332

Difference in taxes paid
1 047 100

So at the end the 10.5 of huberdeau is basically the same than the 9,5M of Tkachuk

So they could afford Tkachuk they just couldn’t sell him on staying in Calgary. That’s really promising for our guys!

 

[francis246]

9,5 M

Calgary you will pay
4 522 432 in taxes

In florida
3 475 332

Difference in taxes paid
1 047 100

So at the end the 10.5 of huberdeau is basically the same than the 9,5M of Tkachuk

Exactly I’m thinking Tkachuk probably asked for something that started with an 11. And that was more than what the organization was willing to do at the time. Bridging was the right play, it always comes with risk though.

So they could afford Tkachuk they just couldn’t sell him on staying in Calgary. That’s really promising for our guys!

No it literally means Tkachuks price to stay in Calgary was higher than 10.5 and they weren’t willing to go there with him. I’m pretty sure the flames would have taken Tkachuk at 10.5 . They also offered Johnny hockey more money and he still left. No one wanted to be there cause of the city.

If Matthew said in his interview, most of my family rarely came to Calgary to watch me. Now that I play in Florida I have more requests.

 

[gordonshumway]

Has anyone had a look at his drafting past the 1st round. It’s horrendous.

As opposed to Dubas' stellar record?

 

[Brobust]

Unless I'm reading that wrong sounds like Frank is just guessing on those names.

The head office recommends names for every GM search. These are the likely ones.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Exactly I’m thinking Tkachuk probably asked for something that started with an 11. And that was more than what the organization was willing to do at the time. Bridging was the right play, it always comes with risk though.



No it literally means Tkachuks price to stay in Calgary was higher than 10.5 and they weren’t willing to go there with him. I’m pretty sure the flames would have taken Tkachuk at 10.5 . They also offered Johnny hockey more money and he still left. No one wanted to be there cause of the city.

If Matthew said in his interview, most of my family rarely came to Calgary to watch me. Now that I play in Florida I have more requests.

Ok so the GM can have Tkachuk at 11 for his 25-33 prime years, but that’s too rich for his blood and doesn’t fit the organization’s needs.

So instead he pays Huberdeau 500k less for his 31-38 years.

That is some of the worst asset management I can think of, letting a young star walk in his prime to save less than a million in cap for a contract you’re almost guaranteed to buy out or pay to dump within the next 5-6 years.

Treliving in a couple weeks: sorry guys, but Matthews wanted 500k more than I decided I want to pay him, so we’re thrilled to announce we’ve acquired Seguin (extended 11 mil until age 38) and Lindell for Matthews (extended 12.6 until age 33).

 

[Mickey Marner]

Not too thrilled that the rumoured candidates are all retreads with mediocre results.

 

[Menzinger]

Ok so the GM can have Tkachuk at 11 for his 25-33 prime years, but that’s too rich for his blood and doesn’t fit the organization’s needs.

So instead he pays Huberdeau 500k less for his 31-38 years.

That is some of the worst asset management I can think of, letting a young star walk in his prime to save less than a million in cap for a contract you’re almost guaranteed to buy out or pay to dump within the next 5-6 years.

Treliving in a couple weeks: sorry guys, but Matthews wanted 500k more than I decided I want to pay him, so we’re thrilled to announce we’ve acquired Seguin (extended 11 mil until age 38) and Lindell for Matthews (extended 12.6 until age 33).

The moves made worse by the fact that two of his shakeup trades helped build this years potential cup winner's top 9 group.....

 

[Hellcat]

Unless I'm reading that wrong sounds like Frank is just guessing on those names.

Nope you are reading right...

I need a vomit bucket.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Shero wouldn't be a bad candidate

Looking at his most recent tenure with the Devils

2015-2019 drafts

2015 - Zacha and Blackwood
2016 - McLeod, Bastian, Bratt
2017 - Hischier, Boqvist, Zetterlund
2018 - Smith, Schmid and Sharangovich
2019 - Hughes and Okhotlyk (still a prospect)

Notable trades with the Devils (I couldn't get past a certain point in 2017 with capfriendly)

Traded Mueller and a 5th for a 2nd and a 4th

Traded a 2nd and 3rd for Marcus Johansson

Traded Henrique and Blandisi for Vatanen and a 3rd

Acquired Grabner for Rykov and a 2nd

Got a 2nd for Brian Boyle

Traded Lovejoy for a 3rd and Carrick

Traded Mojo for a 2nd and 4th

Acquired Subban for 2 2nds and Santini

Acquired the rights to Gusev for 2nd and 3rd

Traded Hall for Merkley, Bahl, 1st (Mercer) and a 3rd

 

[Warden of the North]

Bergevin would certainly create trade fireworks. His biggest trade for the Habs was considered awful at first but eventually turned out to be a homerun. He's got the intestinal fortitude to make those deals that this team will need to do.

 

[geo25]

Treliving botched the Gaudreau re-signing.

Lost him to free agency. It was a huge black mark on his record. A big reason why he left the Flames.

What makes anyone think he will get it right this time with Matthews?

Treliving is a good, not great, GM. His pedigree is modest. Is he a better GM than Dubas?

Debatable.

But at least they're trying something different. They might still lose. Or they might not.

One thing is for sure, Leafs fans will continue to be entertained by the shenanigans of the front office just as much as the on-ice product.

At this point I don't think Shanahan has a clue how to fix the mess Dubas has made. "We can and we will" has been a massive boondoggle on the world's largest hockey stage. Dubas gambled on both the payroll and roster construction and lost.

They are quickly running out of time before Matthews can abandon this sinking ship as a result.

The biggest positive is Trev has gone through the Gaudreau debacle and knows furst habd what its like....am sure ge'll know how to handle that type of situation here....which is coming up.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The moves made worse by the fact that two of his shakeup trades helped build this years potential cup winner's top 9 group.....

The general logic of it is all warped.

“We can’t afford to spend 500k too much on Tkachuk because then we won’t be able to afford to put a good team around him”

It’s the extra 500k on one contract that’s going to cause that? Are you sure it’s not paying Lucic 6 mil maybe? Are you sure it’s not spending 8.2 mil on below average goalies? Paying Coleman 5 mil through his 30s to put up Kerfoot numbers?

No no, it’s the extra 500k to Tkachuk that would have messed up this delicately designed salary structure.

 

[phillipmike]

I dont know why some posters think Treliving would be a terrible choice. He is just as good as Dubas. If you are truly objective, you will see he has a slightly better 5 year record with less to work with.

Treliving isnt my first choice, borderline in my top 5 but he is a good fallback if you cant get Nill, McPhee/McCrimmon or Armstrong.

Bold are players still with the team/under contract.

Brad Treliving 2018 to 2023 Key Additions:
Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Coleman-Kadri-Jarnkrok
Lucic-Ryan-Hathaway
Czarnik-LeDeuhr-Pelletier

Simon, Neal, Lewis, Ritchie, Ritchie, Leivo, Richardson, Rinaldo, Rieder, Nordstrom, Pitlick, Carpenter, Lazar, Coronato

Hanifin-Tanev
Weegar-Zadorov
Gilbert-Mackey

Gudbransson, Stone, Stretcher

Markstrom
Vladar
Talbot
Wolf

Points: 445 (average 89 points per season)
Playoff Round Wins: 2 (11-16) in 3 playoff appearances

Kyle Dubas 2018 to 2023 Key Additions:
Bunting-Tavares-Kerfoot
Mikheyev-ROR-Jarnkrok
Knies-Kampf-Lafferty
Acciari-Spezza-Holmberg

Blackwell, Thornton, Galchenyuk, Robertson, Vesey, Barabanov, Clifford, Simmonds, Ritchie, Malgin, ZAR

Giordano-Brodie
McCabe-Barrie
Sandin-Schenn

Muzzin, Lyubushkin, Bogosian, Gustafsson, Ceci, Timmins

Samsonov
Campbell
Murray
Mrazek
Sparks
Rittch

Points: 484 (average 97 points per season)
Playoff Round Wins: 1 (16-21) in 5 playoff appearances

Calgary has the edge upfront and on defense. In goal is comparable. In the last 5 years, Treliving is leaving the Flames with more than Dubas is leaving the Leafs. Toronto is the better regular season team by on average 8 points (97 vs 89) or 5 points (109 vs 104) if you only include the three full 82 games seasons. And a big reason for the Leafs having the edge in the regular season is because Dubas inherited Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Kadri and Freddy. If you go back to when Treliving took over his top scorer was Jiri Hulder with 54 points, and his starting goalie was Kari Ramo. In terms of core players, Treliving inherited; Gaudreau, Giordano, Monahan, Brodie and Backlund.

The Flames had slightly better playoff success in that timeframe.

And i didnt even go through the prospect pool where the Flames have a great edge. Dubas had 35 draft picks. Treliving had 29.

The NHL’s Best Farm Systems Ranked - 2023-24 Midseason Update - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Just like the NHL clubs, their prospect pools are all at different stages. This piece will take a look at every NHL farm system ranking.

thehockeywriters.com

7. Calgary Flames​

Previous Ranking: 23​

Top Five Prospects: Matt Coronato, Jakob Pelletier, Connor Zary, Matthew Phillips, Dustin Wolf​

The Calgary Flames have been a great team for the last decade or so, but that hasn’t stopped them from building one of the very best prospect pools in the NHL. They had the 13th overall pick in the 2021 Draft which was the highest they’ve selected in the most recent six drafts. Calgary has made a few excellent choices toward the end of the first round that give them a very positive outlook despite the disappointing season they are experiencing at the moment.

Matt Coronato is an incredibly talented offensive player who has been tearing up the NCAA ever since being drafted in 2021 where he has scored 56 points in 51 games at the time of writing. He’s not the only Flames prospect who has been impressive recently. The other four prospects on my top-five list above have been excellent in the AHL this year with Matthew Phillips leading the league in points earlier this year before earning an NHL call-up, Dustin Wolf leading the league in wins and goals against average, and Jakob Pelletier and Connor Zary being third and second respectively in AHL scoring among U22 players. The future is bright in Calgary

19. Toronto Maple Leafs​

Previous Ranking: 16​

Top Five Prospects: Matthew Knies, Topi Niemela, Nick Robertson, Nicholas Moldenhauer, Fraser Minten​

The Toronto Maple Leafs have only used one first-round pick in the last four drafts, but have managed to mine some really valuable selections in the second and third rounds in recent years. In fact, each member of their “Top Five Prospects” list above was selected in the second or third rounds. If they decide to trade any of their future first-round picks, it will likely be to get them over the hump this year, “the hump” being the Lightning who are by far the most likely team that will be standing between Toronto and the second round of the playoffs.

 

[WillNy29]

9,5 M

Calgary you will pay
4 522 432 in taxes

In florida
3 475 332

Difference in taxes paid
1 047 100

So at the end the 10.5 of huberdeau is basically the same than the 9,5M of Tkachuk

that's not how that works

 

[francis246]

Ok so the GM can have Tkachuk at 11 for his 25-33 prime years, but that’s too rich for his blood and doesn’t fit the organization’s needs.

So instead he pays Huberdeau 500k less for his 31-38 years.

That is some of the worst asset management I can think of, letting a young star walk in his prime to save less than a million in cap for a contract you’re almost guaranteed to buy out or pay to dump within the next 5-6 years.

Treliving in a couple weeks: sorry guys, but Matthews wanted 500k more than I decided I want to pay him, so we’re thrilled to announce we’ve acquired Seguin (extended 11 mil until age 38) and Lindell for Matthews (extended 12.6 until age 33).

We have no idea what the number was. IMO I get what you’re saying but everything is situational. I don’t think in 2019 the Flames knew they’d be losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk 2 years later. They also knew they had to pay Gaudreau. Everyone knows it’s bad practice to pay two wingers over 10 million. Also spare me the bullshit. Look how crazy people are going over having multiple players make over 10 million here in Toronto. Imagine what the outrage would be if Calgary had two wingers taking up 22 million.

BT was absolutely right to bridge, most of the times players don’t always leave after getting bridged. It also allowed Calgary to sign Markstrom and rebuild the defense, get some depth players who actually made the Flames way better in 2020 and 2021. It’s about principle and not allowing the players to f*** you.

 

[Buds17]

So they could afford Tkachuk they just couldn’t sell him on staying in Calgary. That’s really promising for our guys!

There isn't much that a GM of a Canadian team can do if an American born player wishes to play for an American based team, and I think there's a good argument to be made for that in the case of Tkachuk. IMO, the better criticism of Treliving could be found in the contracts given out to Huberdeau and/or Weegar.

 

[Martin Skoula]

We have no idea what the number was. IMO I get what you’re saying but everything is situational. I don’t think in 2019 the Flames knew they’d be losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk 2 years later. They also knew they had to pay Gaudreau. Everyone knows it’s bad practice to pay two wingers over 10 million. Also spare me the bullshit. Look how crazy people are going over having multiple players make over 10 million here in Toronto. Imagine what the outrage would be if Calgary had two wingers taking up 22 million.

BT was absolutely right to bridge, most of the times players don’t always leave after getting bridged. It also allowed Calgary to sign Markstrom and rebuild the defense, get some depth players who actually made the Flames way better in 2020 and 2021. It’s about principle and not allowing the players to f*** you.

Yeah paying multiple players around 10 million really sinks teams.

Just look at Vegas with Eichel and Stone at 10 and 9.5, Dallas with Benn and Seguin at 9.5, Florida with Bob, Barkov, and Tkachuk at 10 and 9.5.

But hey instead of the likely Smythe winner at this point you get to pay Markstrom and a couple replaceable journeymen through their 30s, that’s basically just as good. Plus you get to keep your principles of course!

Edit: just for the sake of balance I like Tre’s work with his D-core and if we were just coming out of a tear-down rebuild I wouldn’t have any issue with him building up a nucleus for us. The problem his recent weaknesses are the exact things we’re about to deal with and our defense is mostly locked in for the rest of the window. An upgrade on Brodie at 1RHD is the only real piece you can change that would have an impact.

 

[ToneDog]

There isn't much that a GM of a Canadian team can do if an American born player wishes to play for an American based team, and I think there's a good argument to be made for that in the case of Tkachuk. IMO, the better criticism of Treliving could be found in the contracts given to Huberdeau and/or Weegar.

Huberdeau was coming off a 115 point season. At some point you gotta get players to stay or nobody will want to come. IF Treliving comes here, I'll judge him by the deals he makes with AM and WN and our pending UFAs.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The biggest positive is Trev has gone through the Gaudreau debacle and knows furst habd what its like....am sure ge'll know how to handle that type of situation here....which is coming up.

Or he falls along with Shanahan.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah paying multiple players around 10 million really sinks teams.

Just look at Vegas with Eichel and Stone at 10 and 9.5, Dallas with Benn and Seguin at 9.5, Florida with Bob, Barkov, and Tkachuk at 10 and 9.5.

But hey instead of the likely Smythe winner at this point you get to pay Markstrom and a couple replaceable journeymen through their 30s, that’s basically just as good. Plus you get to keep your principles of course!

He said, "Everyone knows it’s bad practice to pay two wingers over 10 million. ".

 

[Martin Skoula]

He said, "Everyone knows it’s bad practice to pay two wingers over 10 million. ".

So Seguin being a C fixes the fact that they’re paying him and Benn 20 mil to put up a total of 20 points combined in 3 rounds?

I’m not buying that if you swap Coleman/Lucic, Kadri, Huberdeau for Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and a filler piece you end up with a worse team because you broke the 10 mil winger rule. Overpaying 30 year old middle of the lineup guys is infinitely worse than overpaying a 100 point forward in his prime.

 

[danny90]

So they could afford Tkachuk they just couldn’t sell him on staying in Calgary. That’s really promising for our guys!

I mean it’s Calgary which is a really tough sell

 

[geo25]

He said, "Everyone knows it’s bad practice to pay two wingers over 10 million. ".

Who said that?

 

[Brobust]

It's pointless arguing over GM candidates and their histories. Dubas included, each has massive red flags.

The only hope is that whoever they hire is smart enough to learn from his past failures.