Speculation: Leafs next move

[Pens x]

Second most Stanley cups and more valuable than a few teams put together.
Succesful.

Debate the timing of the cups all you want but the fact remains, second most. Ever.

You are right, the Leafs were great during the time of World War II. Sorry, my mistake. The Leafs were great when there were 5 other teams, bruh. They’ve done nothing since the league expanded to 12 teams.

I just don’t know how fans of this team continue to post anything and everything on the main boards. They’ve been irrelevant for 50 years and haven’t won a playoff series in what, 15 years?

The fans of the other 30 teams do not care about the Leafs.

You all need to go away until you win a playoff series. Seriously. The Pirates have won the 4th most World Series. Would any Pirates fan pump their chest shouting this? No, because the team is a joke right now.

No one cares what happened in the 40’s and 60’s. NO ONE

 

[OVO16]

Because people in the Leafs board are sick of his and heybuddy’s threads already.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[OVO16]

You are right, the Leafs were great during the time of World War II. Sorry, my mistake. The Leafs were great when there were 5 other teams, bruh. They’ve done nothing since the league expanded to 12 teams.

I just don’t know how fans of this team continue to post anything and everything on the main boards. They’ve been irrelevant for 50 years and haven’t won a playoff series in what, 15 years?

The fans of the other 30 teams do not care about the Leafs.

You all need to go away until you win a playoff series. Seriously. The Pirates have won the 4th most World Series. Would any Pirates fan pump their chest shouting this? No, because the team is a joke right now.

No one cares what happened in the 40’s and 60’s. NO ONE

Dude just shut up. No need to start trolling and throwing shots over a meaningless thread

 

[BillNy]

I'm not all that worried about the defense, but I'd jettison Hainsey and Zaitsev for whatever possible. I don't really see them making a move for a big-name RHD, though. I think they really strongly believe in Timothy Liljegren, and especially with Hainsey expiring at the end of the season, probably expect him to come up in 2019-20.

 

[Pens x]

Dude just shut up. No need to start trolling and throwing shots over a meaningless thread

I’m not trolling

The Leafs’ roster is good to go for the season. If for some strange reason another team wants Picard, I will be for a 7th round pick. It’s too late to upgrade their defense at this point.

Their next move is to begin training camp, and the same can be said of the other 30 teams.

 

[BillNy]

You’d think this was a successful organization with the number of Leafs’ threads. But uhhhh it isn’t.

Eh, no. Successful teams have less need/room to improve, and so they should be expected to make fewer transactions. I'd expect the trade board to be mostly threads about the Senators, Sabres, Oilers, Canadiens, Canucks, Coyotes, etc. It's not like the Penguins or Capitals desperately need adjustments.

 

[JayKnowsHockey]

In the meantime, next move is trading Nylander because leafs can’t afford to keep him.

This is just silly too. Why cant Leafs afford to keep 3-4 high paid guys but rest of league can afford it no problem. Teams like Pens, Blackhawks, Sharks, Tampa. So tired of hearing this

 

[Cor]

I can see Josh Leivo + Calvin Pickard packaged together to go somewhere.

Washington is a team that could use a backup goalie depending on how Copley looks. Would love to snag a Kody Clark or Riley Sutter from them, but being recent draft picks, I doubt it.

 

[Cor]

The fans of the other 30 teams do not care about the Leafs.

This is objectivley and subjectively false.

If for no other reason that other fans care about the Leafs, much like how Leaf fans care about the Lightning, Bruins, Penguins, Capitals. Why? Because those are other good teams in the East, and what they do affects our teams chances at success, much like what we do affects their chances at success.

However, it does extend beyond that.

 

[Drake1588]

Toronto's next move will be to:
1. See what they have in their current core group, rather than address their greatest deficiency. This means they will sign Nylander.
2. Win the President's Trophy and lose hard in the playoffs, probably in the second round to Tampa.
3. Address their defense, next summer.

As for the stuff on the margins, who cares? You aren't going to solve Toronto's issues without looking at moving key players, and Toronto isn't prepared to do that today. Next summer's free agency pool is (probably) not going to contain the answer either, unless somehow Karlsson makes it unsigned. His cap hit is going to be north of $12M and thus he's not a great fit. Ellis would have been a nice add, but few of those guys ever make it to free agency.

The defense won't be a liability in the regular season, but it's a subpar group for playoff hockey. The solution to the imbalance in Toronto is moving an important forward piece to bring in a stud on defense, and neither the fans nor the team brain trust are in the right frame of mind to do it today.

So in some ways, I expect this will be a year of growth, but also something of a wasted opportunity. It's so obvious what the Leafs need to do, and they aren't prepared to do it. They need the pain of a disappointment relative to rising expectations; nothing less is going to make the point.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Toronto's next move will be to:
1. See what they have in their current core group, rather than address their greatest deficiency.
2. Win the President's Trophy and lose hard in the playoffs, probably in the second round to Tampa.
3. Address their defense, next summer.

As for the stuff on the margins, who cares? You aren't going to solve Toronto's issues without looking at moving key players, and Toronto isn't prepared to do that today. Next summer's free agency pool is (probably) not going to contain the answer either, unless somehow Karlsson makes it unsigned. His cap hit is going to be north of $12M and thus he's not a great fit. Ellis would have been a nice add, but few of those guys ever make it to free agency.

The defense won't be a liability in the regular season, but it's a subpar group for playoff hockey. The solution to the imbalance in Toronto is moving an important forward piece to bring in a stud on defense, and neither the fans nor the team brain trust are in the right frame of mind to do it today.

So in some ways, I expect this will be a year of growth, but also something of a wasted opportunity. It's so obvious what the Leafs need to do, and they aren't prepared to do it. They need the pain of a disappointment relative to rising expectations; nothing less is going to make the point.

That's not the issue. The issue is there is no way to bring in a piece on D without badly losing a deal, and Edmonton showed us why that is a terrible idea. They would need a franchise D back for anyone of the big 4 aside from Nylander. For Nylander, they need a top pair RD at the very least.

All that is available are 2nd pairing RD, older RD approaching 30 and looking for the over payment contract they are never worth in a few seasons, or ones that are already in their 30's (Johnson from Colorado as an example) and the Leafs moves a 22 year old who has 6 or 7 years of his prime years left for a guy already passed his and likely breaking down (Look at Weber).

If it was as simple as move Nylander for a D it would have been done. There is no fit, that is why they must wait.

 

[StephenPeat]

I can see Josh Leivo + Calvin Pickard packaged together to go somewhere.

Washington is a team that could use a backup goalie depending on how Copley looks. Would love to snag a Kody Clark or Riley Sutter from them, but being recent draft picks, I doubt it.

Well you’re right about one thing. I also doubt the Caps are going to trade either of two recent, relatively-high, draft picks for players they have little use for, one of whom is a backup goaltender who’s value is marginal at best.

 

[sansabri]

Toronto's next move: Nothing. Just wait it out until it's too late.

 

[Cor]

Well you’re right about one thing. I also doubt the Caps are going to trade either of two recent, relatively-high, draft picks for players they have little use for, one of whom is a backup goaltender who’s value is marginal at best.

I said I would love to snag them, not that Washington would trade them, which I even said I doubted. I can't be right, nor wrong, by saying I would like to get one of those two players.

There's a couple things to be argued in my post.

1) I stated I can see Josh Leivo and Calvin Pickard packaged together in a deal. - Is a pretty reasonable assumtion, considering Leivo can't seem to earn the trust of Babcock and Pickard is behind two other goalies for our backup spot.

2) Washington is a team that could use a backup goalie, depending on how Copley does in Camp - Again, another pretty reasonable assumtion. Copley has just 1 NHL start in his career and allowed 5 goals. He had a meh year last year in Hershey, not really a guarentee he is who Washington wants behind Holtby. If Calvin Pickard can be had for a reasonable price, I'd say that's something Washington would be open to.

3) I stated that I doubted Washington would trade Kody Clark or Riley Sutter given they recently drafted them. - Again, very reasonable. Obviously they aren't untouchable or anything, but WSH would likely be more willing to give up a different prospect than ones they just drafted.

So the scoreboard appears to be;

Reasonable Takes That Are Generally Right - 3
My Opinion Of Liking Sutter and Clark that you don't like - 1

 

[CF84]

Everything is the Leafs board. You're all small potatoes.

Actually, there is a sanctuary that was created to escape the worst fans on the planet. I spend most of my time there, but every so often I'll drop by here to listen to the perspective of other team's fans.

Then I realize that I will never be able to escape the "logic" of Leafs fans.

At least it's good for a laugh!

 

[StephenPeat]

I said I would love to snag them, not that Washington would trade them, which I even said I doubted. I can't be right, nor wrong, by saying I would like to get one of those two players.

There's a couple things to be argued in my post.

1) I stated I can see Josh Leivo and Calvin Pickard packaged together in a deal. - Is a pretty reasonable assumtion, considering Leivo can't seem to earn the trust of Babcock and Pickard is behind two other goalies for our backup spot.

2) Washington is a team that could use a backup goalie, depending on how Copley does in Camp - Again, another pretty reasonable assumtion. Copley has just 1 NHL start in his career and allowed 5 goals. He had a meh year last year in Hershey, not really a guarentee he is who Washington wants behind Holtby. If Calvin Pickard can be had for a reasonable price, I'd say that's something Washington would be open to.

3) I stated that I doubted Washington would trade Kody Clark or Riley Sutter given they recently drafted them. - Again, very reasonable. Obviously they aren't untouchable or anything, but WSH would likely be more willing to give up a different prospect than ones they just drafted.

So the scoreboard appears to be;

Reasonable Takes That Are Generally Right - 3
My Opinion Of Liking Sutter and Clark that you don't like - 1

Whether you consider your own takes reasonable or not (shocking) is irrelevant. The facts are these;

Pickard (after clearing waivers) was already traded for a 6th and a C- Prospect. Value: practically nothing.

The Caps have a slew of LWs all with much better #s than Leivo. Leivo is 25 and requires waivers. Value: ditto.

A package of Leivo and Pickard isn’t likely worth the trouble any team would go to acquiring those players whose value ranges from Meh to Bleh and is, thus, an unlikely package. Is the intent that these players are bit parts in acquiring other likely career-AHLers, cause otherwise I don’t see it.

Your scoreboard cannot have 4pts when you only make 3. Besides what is the point of keeping score for a litany of trifling points that are all summarily unlikely to occur?

 

[shortfuze]

You are right, the Leafs were great during the time of World War II. Sorry, my mistake. The Leafs were great when there were 5 other teams, bruh. They’ve done nothing since the league expanded to 12 teams.

I just don’t know how fans of this team continue to post anything and everything on the main boards. They’ve been irrelevant for 50 years and haven’t won a playoff series in what, 15 years?

The fans of the other 30 teams do not care about the Leafs.

You all need to go away until you win a playoff series. Seriously. The Pirates have won the 4th most World Series. Would any Pirates fan pump their chest shouting this? No, because the team is a joke right now.

No one cares what happened in the 40’s and 60’s. NO ONE

Well some fans of other teams should care about the leafs. I mean shit. If Toronto didn’t help pump a lot of money into other teams to help them survive they would be just as irrelevant. But the best part is when other fans constantly come into a leafs thread just to get their point across how irrelevant Toronto is to the league. And yet, here they are, talking about the leafs.

 

[Notsince67]

There's a Leafs centric section for a reason. I'd utilize that going forward.

Or simply...don't enter a thread clearly marked as Leafs content

 

[Cor]

Whether you consider your own takes reasonable or not (shocking) is irrelevant. The facts are these;

Pickard (after clearing waivers) was already traded for a 6th and a C- Prospect. Value: practically nothing.

The Caps have a slew of LWs all with much better #s than Leivo. Leivo is 25 and requires waivers. Value: ditto.

A package of Leivo and Pickard isn’t likely worth the trouble any team would go to acquiring those players whose value ranges from Meh to Bleh and is, thus, an unlikely package. Is the intent that these players are bit parts in acquiring other likely career-AHLers, cause otherwise I don’t see it.

Your scoreboard cannot have 4pts when you only make 3. Besides what is the point of keeping score for a litany of trifling points that are all summarily unlikely to occur?

Wouldn't my opinion of my takes be just as reasonable as your opinion of my takes? If not, that means you value your opinion over others, which to that I say, whether you consider your opinion more reasonable than others, or not, is irrelevant.

Calvin Pickard also put up a terrific season in the AHL ending in an AHL Championship. It's fairly safe to say he has raised his value since then, even if he only started 37% of the games.

Overall, Josh Leivo and Calvin Pickard are guys that can help an NHL team, and are currently blocked in their current organization. It's reasonable to say there is a possibility of them being packaged together to a team who can use the depth. Is it a guarentee? No. Maybe the Leafs trade Pickard on his own, or Leivo on his own, or end up keeping both, but packaging them together is still a reasonable option.

My orginal post had 4 points to it. 3 were reasonable arguable points, Leivo+Pickard possibly being packaged together, Washington possibly needing a backup goalie, and that it would be doubtful Washington would be willing to trade Kody Clark or Riley Sutter. 1 was simply an opinion of mine that I would love to grab Sutter or Clark. Whether it be for that package or a different package, doesn't change that.

I also didn't start the tracking of what is right/wrong. You did. In your reply to my initial post claiming that I am at least right about one thing, when it's within the realm of reason that I am "correct" about the 3 points I had, and me liking Clark & Sutter is simply an opinion and can not be right or wrong.

 

[Pens x]

This is objectivley and subjectively false.

If for no other reason that other fans care about the Leafs, much like how Leaf fans care about the Lightning, Bruins, Penguins, Capitals. Why? Because those are other good teams in the East, and what they do affects our teams chances at success, much like what we do affects their chances at success.

However, it does extend beyond that.

I can assure you that no one outside of Boston and Tampa cares about the Leafs, the third best team in that division.

 

[Pens x]

Well some fans of other teams should care about the leafs. I mean ****. If Toronto didn’t help pump a lot of money into other teams to help them survive they would be just as irrelevant. But the best part is when other fans constantly come into a leafs thread just to get their point across how irrelevant Toronto is to the league. And yet, here they are, talking about the leafs.

The Leafs, as a team, are very exciting. But the Leafs’ fans on the site are pretty much insufferable. I’d understand it more if the Leafs had won the cup recently, but the main site just gets clogged with a team that has been a failure as of late.

This site will crash if they somehow get out of the first round of the playoffs. Toronto is a great hockey market and the fans deserve a winner. But enough with posting anything related to the Leafs.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Re-sign Nylander, why would anyone think anything else lol.

 

[nturn06]

Second most Stanley cups and more valuable than a few teams put together.
Succesful.

Debate the timing of the cups all you want but the fact remains, second most. Ever.

What are you implying is that Montreal is a much better organization than TML...

 

[TheGroceryStick]

You are right, the Leafs were great during the time of World War II. Sorry, my mistake. The Leafs were great when there were 5 other teams, bruh. They’ve done nothing since the league expanded to 12 teams.

I just don’t know how fans of this team continue to post anything and everything on the main boards. They’ve been irrelevant for 50 years and haven’t won a playoff series in what, 15 years?

The fans of the other 30 teams do not care about the Leafs.

You all need to go away until you win a playoff series. Seriously. The Pirates have won the 4th most World Series. Would any Pirates fan pump their chest shouting this? No, because the team is a joke right now.

No one cares what happened in the 40’s and 60’s. NO ONE

Pens were the laughing stock of the league when they drafted at the top pretty much every year and needed Mario /Bettman to save them from moving.
Only to watch their fans pound their chest about "best franchise" when Sid and co. Showed up

 

[Cor]

I can assure you that no one outside of Boston and Tampa cares about the Leafs, the third best team in that division.

So you just admitted that your previous "No fans of the other 30 teams care about the Leafs" was incorrect.

Good.

 

[FerrisRox]

Wrong place for this discussion.

There will be a lot of snippy and sarcastic posts, and rightly so. Putting this up here implies that whatever happens in Leafs Nation is of interest to the entire NHL, and that just isn't the case.

Respectfully you are wrong.

I think fans of every team in the league are curious what the Leafs are going to do with Calvin Pickard, because whenever they do make that move, the ripple effect around the league will affect several other teams.