Recalled/Assigned: Leafs Loan Rasmus Sandin to Marlies | Re-Call Kevin Gravel

[Stephen]

People work shockingly hard to be incredibly stupid...

You’re very correct on this point. The fact that some people believe Sandin has been irrecoverably damaged by the last 12 days of NHL experience followed by a demotion speaks to a level contrived stupidity that needs to be called out.

 

[mikeo1]

Such unnecessary remarks dude. Typical, childish comebacks.

Biotk explained his opinion in several posts and threads now and all you have to say is the above?

Rookies have been rewarded for good camps with a 9 game look for ages. They get a taste of the NHL, get paid a bit more, and their teams get a better look at their development.

It’s laughable that someone can argue for pages with such arrogant zeal that this six game stint has somehow ruined Sandins development or that this somehow reflects poorly on this teams management. When your only argument is “idiots going to idiot” or “people are trying really hard to be stupid”, I’m not sure what type of response you expect. It’s obvious you’re a narcissist and probably a huge moron.

 

[biotk]

Do you not see this as a unique situation? I mean really? They have a regular that is hurt. They have a budding star Dman able to play 9 games without affecting his status. They have contract/cap restrictions. They have waiver eligible players to consider. they have a coach that 's full of shyte. Sandins ability as a hockey player isn't negatively affected by any of this.

Not at all. The team had Marincin, Holl, Gravel, Schmaltz and Harpur all for this very reason. The team had less of a need to press an ELC into the lineup temporarily than they have at any point in many years.

As to whether Sandin's play and development will be affected by this, well as the quote I posted from Dubas a couple years ago, he disagrees with your certainty. Time will tell.

 

[biotk]

You’re very correct on this point. The fact that some people believe Sandin has been irrecoverably damaged by the last 12 days of NHL experience followed by a demotion speaks to a level contrived stupidity that needs to be called out.

I never said irrecoverably damaged. You lie repeatedly because that is all you have.

I said that it has the possibility of harming his development and setting him back.

Something that Dubas himself has stated: "We don't want players going up and then coming down. We saw last year with Stuart Percy and Sam Carrick, they go up, and they come back down, and it really rattles the players' confidence. Even though it's a joyful experience to play your first NHL game, to make the team and get recalled, it gets your psyche out of order a little bit."

Neither were yo-yoed up and down all season either. It takes a toll being sent down. Anyone who watches the AHL and/or has a brain knows this happens, and not rarely either.

 

[biotk]

When your only argument is “idiots going to idiot” or “people are trying really hard to be stupid”

or word for word what Dubas and the rest of Leafs' management has repeatedly said. Word for word.

 

[Nineteen67]

Probably didn’t want him to play against Boston

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Probably didn’t want him to play against Boston

so they sent him down two games early to be extra cautious?

 

[biotk]

I think Sandin did show he deserves to be on the leafs. It's not anybody else's fault that Babcock thinks he's a delicate flower who can't handle even playing 3rd pairing minutes or taking a hit. It was a bad stretch of games for his development but Sandin will be fine. It really does look like Dubas expected more opportunity for Sandin and Babcock is unwilling to treat him like a professional athlete as opposed to a child who needs parenting

Sandin will undoubtedly be fine long-term. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandin struggles a lot for a period of time to regain the confidence on the ice he had a month ago (and for years before that). Of course, in saying that - despite it being something that everyone who watches the AHL has seen, and despite it being something that Dubas has talked about happening including with two players during the season in which he was interviewing - I understand that I am blaspheming because I am a narcissist.

 

[thewave]

I never said irrecoverably damaged. You lie repeatedly because that is all you have.

I said that it has the possibility of harming his development and setting him back.

Something that Dubas himself has stated: "We don't want players going up and then coming down. We saw last year with Stuart Percy and Sam Carrick, they go up, and they come back down, and it really rattles the players' confidence. Even though it's a joyful experience to play your first NHL game, to make the team and get recalled, it gets your psyche out of order a little bit."

Neither were yo-yoed up and down all season either. It takes a toll being sent down. Anyone who watches the AHL and/or has a brain knows this happens, and not rarely either.

Well then who was the dope that had Sandin on the team because a bunch of us could plainly see his defensive deficiency. I mean, Dubas sets the roster, maybe he didn't get it right because I know Babcock made the right choice on this one... Or, perhaps Dubas talks out his you know what.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Sandin will be fine. It won't be long until he is back up. Hopefully Gravel can fill in for him while he gets his game back. Dubas doesn't like to send players down when they are young, but it was the right decision. At least he wasn't stubborn and kept him in the NHL whenit would be better for him to be in the A .

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

Good move. The kid is good, real good. Soon he will be NHL ready and will kill it

I think he's a top pairing defenseman but he will definitely benefit from increase playing time.

Its frustrating that we do not have anyone to bite back.

 

[Nineteen67]

so they sent him down two games early to be extra cautious?

Would Make it look too obvious.

 

[thewave]

Would Make it look too obvious.

Maybe they just watched him and saw what some of us here observed. He was not great for the majority of the games. Bright future it seems, just not ready.

I think he wasn't ready and they knew he wasn't ready but the hard knock was the end of it.

 

[The Wall]

I guess this could open the door for a forward for d man swap? When Hyman comes back the obvious odd man out would be Kapanen. what D man could we get for him? Jonas Brodin or David Savard would be ideal gets


Rielly/Savard
Muzzin/Barrie
Dermott/Ceci

 

[biotk]

Well then who was the dope that had Sandin on the team because a bunch of us could plainly see his defensive deficiency. I mean, Dubas sets the roster, maybe he didn't get it right because I know Babcock made the right choice on this one... Or, perhaps Dubas talks out his you know what.

You have no ability to evaluate hockey players. Regardless, anyone who is not completely biased knows how highly Babcock was speaking of Sandin, knows that Babcock said he had earned a spot on the team, and knows that if Babcock did not agree with Sandin being on the roster he wouldn't have kept him in every game.

It also seems completely evident from everything that has been written about this that this demotion was not planned and Babcock will be having another meeting with Sandin later this week because he says when a player gets this kind of news they don't hear what you have to say. It seems pretty evident that it was based on not being able to get enough opportunity and ice time to justify staying on the roster. Babocks comments would suggest that there was a disconnect in between how much ice time Babcock and Dubas thought Sandin was going to get and how much ice time Babcock actually managed to find for Sandin. “We went back and forth on that a whole bunch to see what we could do,” Babcock said. “Just by looking at our group and what we’re doing we weren’t affording him those opportunities.”

 

[biotk]

I guess this could open the door for a forward for d man swap? When Hyman comes back the obvious odd man out would be Kapanen. what D man could we get for him? Jonas Brodin or David Savard would be ideal gets

Either would require much, much more than Kapanen.

 

[thewave]

You have no ability to evaluate hockey players. Regardless, anyone who is not completely biased knows how highly Babcock was speaking of Sandin, knows that Babcock said he had earned a spot on the team, and knows that if Babcock did not agree with Sandin being on the roster he wouldn't have kept him in every game.

It also seems completely evident from everything that has been written about this that this demotion was not planned and Babcock will be having another meeting with Sandin later this week because he says when a player gets this kind of news they don't hear what you have to say. It seems pretty evident that it was based on not being able to get enough opportunity and ice time to justify staying on the roster. Babocks comments would suggest that there was a disconnect in between how much ice time Babcock and Dubas thought Sandin was going to get and how much ice time Babcock actually managed to find for Sandin. “We went back and forth on that a whole bunch to see what we could do,” Babcock said. “Just by looking at our group and what we’re doing we weren’t affording him those opportunities.”

Many people said he was defensively not ready. He was making mistakes. He was not playing much. People said he needs big minutes and refinement. This was a package statement, many in agreement. Believe it or not I am not bad at getting players right and not all that MLSE say is gospel or even true. They can even get it wrong. Imagine that.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Many people said he was defensively not ready. He was making mistakes. He was not playing much. People said he needs big minutes and refinement. This was a package statement, many in agreement. Believe it or not I am not bad at getting players right and not all that MLSE say is gospel or even true. They can even get it wrong. Imagine that.

you were the only one saying he wasn't ready and you were wrong. It's unfortunate Babcock couldn't find more minutes for him, but it reveals more about Babcock's game management abilities than anything Sandin was doing wrong

 

[The Wall]

Either would require much, much more than Kapanen.

true. who would be a gettable type player for Kapanen?

 

[thewave]

you were the only one saying he wasn't ready and you were wrong. It's unfortunate Babcock couldn't find more minutes for him, but it reveals more about Babcock's game management abilities than anything Sandin was doing wrong

Yeah it's all about minutes. Not about the big hit or the mistakes in the Dzone. None of that stuff factors into decisions at all, it's just he was so ready but no minutes. So why don't they trade someone then? If he is now wasting in the AHL why not trade someone? No, that won't happen either but sure, remember this Dubas' gig, we are in the padded room not wanting to hurt the feelers of todays youth.

He was not ready. He is back in the AHL.

 

[MattySnipes]

Rookies have been rewarded for good camps with a 9 game look for ages. They get a taste of the NHL, get paid a bit more, and their teams get a better look at their development.

It’s laughable that someone can argue for pages with such arrogant zeal that this six game stint has somehow ruined Sandins development or that this somehow reflects poorly on this teams management. When your only argument is “idiots going to idiot” or “people are trying really hard to be stupid”, I’m not sure what type of response you expect. It’s obvious you’re a narcissist and probably a huge moron.

Nice name calling, what are you 8 years old?

Sandin had a great camp and was rewarded. Correct. However, he was not placed in a position to succeed. He was too sheltered in his limited time here, not used in situations and parts of game where his skillset can shine. To top it off, he's being played with players like Marincin/Holl. It's okay to give players a shot, but atleast give them a fair opportunity to do what earned them that spot.

Babcock is not a good developmental coach, especially for young and skilled players, but that's not a surprise. Dubas caught on and realised he won't let Sandin be wasted playing under 15min per game in situations which won't help him develop.

Like others have said, Sandin will probably have to play a months worth of games to shake off all the Babcock in his game.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

you were the only one saying he wasn't ready and you were wrong. It's unfortunate Babcock couldn't find more minutes for him, but it reveals more about Babcock's game management abilities than anything Sandin was doing wrong

I said I would like to see him down perfecting the D side as opposed to leaving people down to develop the O, so no, not the only one.

 

[Stephen]

I never said irrecoverably damaged. You lie repeatedly because that is all you have.

I said that it has the possibility of harming his development and setting him back.

Something that Dubas himself has stated: "We don't want players going up and then coming down. We saw last year with Stuart Percy and Sam Carrick, they go up, and they come back down, and it really rattles the players' confidence. Even though it's a joyful experience to play your first NHL game, to make the team and get recalled, it gets your psyche out of order a little bit."

Neither were yo-yoed up and down all season either. It takes a toll being sent down. Anyone who watches the AHL and/or has a brain knows this happens, and not rarely either.

Like I have already said, if 12 days of NHL time and an AHL demotion s going to harm Sandin's development, erode his confidence and set him back, then he's not the prospect you think he is.

If he's a bright, intelligent, cool under pressure player that we believe him to be, he's going to internalize what he saw in the NHL and apply all those lessons to the AHL, get good reps and be ready for his next opportunity.

Nor is being sent down once a sign of being "yo-yo'ed."

In terms of the Dubas cheesy quote you keep clinging to, like I have already covered, there have been many instances of our prospects getting sent down and being brought up again repeatedly until they earned full time promotion since we famously ruined Sam Carrick and Stu Percy.

 

[thewave]

Like I have already said, if 12 days of NHL time and an AHL demotion s going to harm Sandin's development, erode his confidence and set him back, then he's not the prospect you think he is.

If he's a bright, intelligent, cool under pressure player that we believe him to be, he's going to internalize what he saw in the NHL and apply all those lessons to the AHL, get good reps and be ready for his next opportunity.

Nor is being sent down once a sign of being "yo-yo'ed."

In terms of the Dubas cheesy quote you keep clinging to, like I have already covered, there have been many instances of our prospects getting sent down and being brought up again repeatedly until they earned full time promotion since we famously ruined Sam Carrick and Stu Percy.

The quote was junk. Dubas was simply talking the talk and the proof is in how we have dealt with players. If a player can not be sent down to work on his game, get rid of him because he clearly has some sort of emotional or entitlement issues going on and you probably don't want that on your team anyways.

Sandin has a damn solid foundation, the kind of foundation that could lead to top 4D, just like Lilj has a solid foundation that could lead to the same. If they aren't ready at 19 and 20 who cares, it's not a big deal at all. Non issues being blown up out of proportion ITT.

 

[hector morrison]

Not at all. The team had Marincin, Holl, Gravel, Schmaltz and Harpur all for this very reason. The team had less of a need to press an ELC into the lineup temporarily than they have at any point in many years.

As to whether Sandin's play and development will be affected by this, well as the quote I posted from Dubas a couple years ago, he disagrees with your certainty. Time will tell.

Muchado about nothing...Sandin will be fine!