Recalled/Assigned: Leafs Loan Rasmus Sandin to Marlies | Re-Call Kevin Gravel

biotk

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Jan 3, 2017
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you were the only one saying he wasn't ready and you were wrong. It's unfortunate Babcock couldn't find more minutes for him, but it reveals more about Babcock's game management abilities than anything Sandin was doing wrong

He is also someone who throughout camp, from start to finish, was certain that Liljegren was going to be on the team and Sandin was not.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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Sep 28, 2015
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He is also someone who throughout camp, from start to finish, was certain that Liljegren was going to be on the team and Sandin was not.
yes, I remember his congratulatory thread when Liljegren "cracked" the final roster for cap purposes. Funny stuff.

Obviously there's nothing bad about being wrong. I'm wrong myself a good amount. But parading around like he knew Sandin sucked all along is a bit tiresome
 

biotk

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Jan 3, 2017
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true. who would be a gettable type player for Kapanen?

I honestly have no idea. But it would have to be a team that has significant need for a RW and has enough D that they can replace who they trade. There is also a good chance that the Leafs would need the other team to retain.
 

biotk

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Obviously there's nothing bad about being wrong. I'm wrong myself a good amount. But parading around like he knew Sandin sucked all along is a bit tiresome

Yes, we are all wrong quite a bit. One of the nice things about the Leafs is Dubas admits to a lot of the things the Leafs get wrong. There is a good chance that sometime over the next 12 months he admits that the Leafs' made a mistake in putting Sandin on the roster when there wasn't enough ice time and he was suited enough for the role to stick.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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yes, I remember his congratulatory thread when Liljegren "cracked" the final roster for cap purposes. Funny stuff.

Obviously there's nothing bad about being wrong. I'm wrong myself a good amount. But parading around like he knew Sandin sucked all along is a bit tiresome

Bet Lilj is back up before Sandin. I never said Sandin sucked either, I said he needed big minutes and refinement. Big difference. He was making more mistakes per 60 than Lilj though. Regardless of that, Babcock just basically said what I said so am I dumb? Is Babcock dumb? Are you smarter than him? I don't know what to tell you guys. He wasn't ready.
 
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deletethis

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Mar 17, 2015
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He could have easily stayed.

I guess the plan is to play Gravel for the 1/2 dozen or so games until Dermott returns. Not feeling as confident about a 3rd pairing made out of Gravel, Marincin and Holl. It's kinda like what you expect to start only if there happens to be a rash of defense injuries.
 

hobarth

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Jul 10, 2011
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I thought the sentiment was that Sandin was already a superior AHLer so I've never understood the need to demote a player so that he can redominate.

I think Sandin is in need of a greater challenge than the AHL and as he acclimates himself to the NHL his role could expand, his TOI become greater, if he deserves it. Maybe he needs to become stronger, faster, whatever, but those are things he's need for the NHL not to redominate.

I think leaving a player in an inferior league risks stagnation. It's something I felt that caused Kadri to take so long for his game to mature because he was too good for the AHL so he wasn't progressing but sliding on his talent.

I don't know why Babs isn't anxious to get his hands on Sandin to develop him himself, maybe Babs is feeling the heat for TO to succeed now.
 

Pyrophorus

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Holl has become much more confident with the puck, and he's cemented himself in the 3rd pair.
We really needed this from him.
My big concern is that I hope he doesn't regress with a lesser partner.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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I thought the sentiment was that Sandin was already a superior AHLer so I've never understood the need to demote a player so that he can redominate.

I think Sandin is in need of a greater challenge than the AHL and as he acclimates himself to the NHL his role could expand, his TOI become greater, if he deserves it. Maybe he needs to become stronger, faster, whatever, but those are things he's need for the NHL not to redominate.

I think leaving a player in an inferior league risks stagnation. It's something I felt that caused Kadri to take so long for his game to mature because he was too good for the AHL so he wasn't progressing but sliding on his talent.

I don't know why Babs isn't anxious to get his hands on Sandin to develop him himself, maybe Babs is feeling the heat for TO to succeed now.

Sandin is still prone to mistakes in the Dzone. Quite often even. He has refinements to make and that's ok. They want Sandin and Lilj to get 23mins a night and lead the Marlies to a champ. It's not a bad thing at all. Lilj may even get a shot. He is more rounded a player considering size etc.
 

hobarth

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Sandin is still prone to mistakes in the Dzone. Quite often even. He has refinements to make and that's ok. They want Sandin and Lilj to get 23mins a night and lead the Marlies to a champ. It's not a bad thing at all. Lilj may even get a shot. He is more rounded a player considering size etc.

Our golden boy d-man still makes a fair number of d miscues, I understand that TO wants Sandin to get more playing time but I think his development would be better served playing in the venue he's suited to. TO is going to have a Cap problem for years and next year so having Sandin as a reliable NHL proven asset next year would serve both him and Leafs better.
 

thewave

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Our golden boy d-man still makes a fair number of d miscues, I understand that TO wants Sandin to get more playing time but I think his development would be better served playing in the venue he's suited to. TO is going to have a Cap problem for years and next year so having Sandin as a reliable NHL proven asset next year would serve both him and Leafs better.

Think about Morgan. He was a bigger kid, came up and made a lot of mistakes but you never worried about him much because the wheels he had. Sandin just doesn't have the wheels of Morgan or the size and strength Morgan had. That's his main problem and the worst thing that can happen is NHLers smelling fear and slamming him every night until he is broken and bailing on plays. Better to leave him in the A where he can still grow, play more and evade what he can't up in the NHL
 

hector morrison

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Apr 1, 2018
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Our golden boy d-man still makes a fair number of d miscues, I understand that TO wants Sandin to get more playing time but I think his development would be better served playing in the venue he's suited to. TO is going to have a Cap problem for years and next year so having Sandin as a reliable NHL proven asset next year would serve both him and Leafs better.
This smells bad,as in telling the fans a load o'crap. it isn't about Sandins development,the lad is a future star and leader . there are no good hockey reasons to keep him in the AHL. This is likely more to do with money/cap strategy,but i don't expect Babs or Dubas to admit as much.
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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yes, I remember his congratulatory thread when Liljegren "cracked" the final roster for cap purposes. Funny stuff.

Obviously there's nothing bad about being wrong. I'm wrong myself a good amount. But parading around like he knew Sandin sucked all along is a bit tiresome
Yup, i'm a Lilly fan but that thread was bad.
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Bet Lilj is back up before Sandin. I never said Sandin sucked either, I said he needed big minutes and refinement. Big difference. He was making more mistakes per 60 than Lilj though. Regardless of that, Babcock just basically said what I said so am I dumb? Is Babcock dumb? Are you smarter than him? I don't know what to tell you guys. He wasn't ready.
As a Lilly fan, Sandin is ahead right now at the same age. His production complete kills Lilly's regardless of opportunity or not. If Lilly is better, he didn't show it at training camp.
Look I love Lilly, but it's clear your cheering for one player over the other. You know both of them being good is a great thing, right?
 

mapleleaf979

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Jan 14, 2012
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Sandin was excellent in pre-season. He earned his NHL roster spot to start the year. I thought he looked over whelmed vs Columbus in Game 2. Imo, its a no brainer to send him down. Someone else can play his 12 mins a night vs bottom 6 players. Sandin needs to play 20 mins, imo, MLSE are pretty sure they have a Top 4 in Sandin. He will be full time next year, 100 %. I do not think he gets called up this year again, unless he is torching the AHL or more injuries force that move.
 

TheGoldenJet

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Apr 2, 2008
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Good but they should be on the 1st PP unit. I don't want Sandin replacing Lilly there, or we might not know what kind of offensive upside Lilly has.


Liljegren did so well in the first 2 weeks on the top PP unit. Marlies look great and he has done an admirable job as their #1D.

Would be a shame to demote Liljegren when his offensive play is looking the best it’s ever looked. I’d start Sandin in PP2 for now, but if Keefe opts to have him on the top PP unit, then hopefully he keeps Liljegren there as well in a 3F 2D formation like the Leafs are using this year.
 
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stickty111

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Liljegren did so well in the first 2 weeks on the top PP unit. Marlies look great and he has done an admirable job as their #1D.

Would be a shame to demote Liljegren when his offensive play is looking the best it’s ever looked. I’d start Sandin in PP2 for now, but if Keefe opts to have him on the top PP unit, then hopefully he keeps Liljegren there as well in a 3F 2D formation like the Leafs are using this year.
If Keefe follows the same routine he used for Lilly, then Sandin should be on the 2nd PP unit, and get less offensive opprtunities like Lilly did, to improve his defensive game.
 
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sparxx87

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Jan 5, 2010
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Nice name calling, what are you 8 years old?

Sandin had a great camp and was rewarded. Correct. However, he was not placed in a position to succeed. He was too sheltered in his limited time here, not used in situations and parts of game where his skillset can shine. To top it off, he's being played with players like Marincin/Holl. It's okay to give players a shot, but atleast give them a fair opportunity to do what earned them that spot.

Babcock is not a good developmental coach, especially for young and skilled players, but that's not a surprise. Dubas caught on and realised he won't let Sandin be wasted playing under 15min per game in situations which won't help him develop.

Like others have said, Sandin will probably have to play a months worth of games to shake off all the Babcock in his game.
How would he have been put in a situation to succeed? Babcock is dumb, you’re smart, cool. Enlighten us. How would you have used him differently?

Not good at developing young and skilled players? You must be unfamiliar with his work with Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg?

Dubas caught on to what? He’s a moron. He needs to catch a plane out of the country.

Game management? Have any of you ever coached before? Babcock clearly tried to get him out more. Special teams and game situations effect deployment and he’s trying to win the game first and foremost.

Some of you sound completely ridiculous and can’t possibly be so unreasonable.
 

sparxx87

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Jan 5, 2010
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you were the only one saying he wasn't ready and you were wrong. It's unfortunate Babcock couldn't find more minutes for him, but it reveals more about Babcock's game management abilities than anything Sandin was doing wrong
I said right after the Marlies got bounced that he’d likely need more time. He looked worn down and physically immature.

A few simple mistakes and a few hard hits that he needed to avoided and it’s clear to the organization that he’s better served as the Marlies number 1 right now.

What do I win?
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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As a Lilly fan, Sandin is ahead right now at the same age. His production complete kills Lilly's regardless of opportunity or not. If Lilly is better, he didn't show it at training camp.
Look I love Lilly, but it's clear your cheering for one player over the other. You know both of them being good is a great thing, right?

Not even. It depends what you want. Lilj is more stable and stronger, faster. He is also less error prone defensively. Sure you can say Sandin is ahead mentally and thinks the game better offensively and even more likely to hit 40pts+ in a top 4. We all should know this just from our eyes, but what does a 5/6 do? Lilj is the better fit now and it's to do with age, development etc. He may not even get a sniff, I don't get butt hurt over it. I am happy they are being responsible about our D prospects.

This board used to worship Detroit for putting extra time into developing. Now suddenly you want undersized D on the D pairing most likely to see checking lines as opponents. I think the lot of you flipped your lid tbh.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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If Keefe follows the same routine he used for Lilly, then Sandin should be on the 2nd PP unit, and get less offensive opprtunities like Lilly did, to improve his defensive game.

Sounds like a sound strategy for developing your next DCore.
 

GoonieFace

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Jun 24, 2013
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Is Sandin the first ever player to be sent down to the AHL after starting the season in the NHL? To some on here, it would seem like it. He deserves to get more playing time, he is not cracking the top 4 and not playing PP or PK, seems like a pretty logical move.
 
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sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
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Not even. It depends what you want. Lilj is more stable and stronger, faster. He is also less error prone defensively. Sure you can say Sandin is ahead mentally and thinks the game better offensively and even more likely to hit 40pts+ in a top 4. We all should know this just from our eyes, but what does a 5/6 do? Lilj is the better fit now and it's to do with age, development etc. He may not even get a sniff, I don't get butt hurt over it. I am happy they are being responsible about our D prospects.

This board used to worship Detroit for putting extra time into developing. Now suddenly you want undersized D on the D pairing most likely to see checking lines as opponents. I think the lot of you flipped your lid tbh.
Babcock feeds a winning culture.

I guess some prefer that country club vibe where the Muskoka 5 were boss. The days when impatience was key, and the future was bright in the hands of Christian Hanson, Victor Stalberg and Luca Caputi.
 
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