Recalled/Assigned: Leafs Loan Rasmus Sandin to Marlies | Re-Call Kevin Gravel

[Mitch Matthews]

Big Big mistake sending Sandin down and keeping Marincin and Holl - those two suck, plain and simple - zero hockey IQ. Sandin is better then both of them combined

 

[Mitch Matthews]

Is Sandin the first ever player to be sent down to the AHL after starting the season in the NHL? To some on here, it would seem like it. He deserves to get more playing time, he is not cracking the top 4 and not playing PP or PK, seems like a pretty logical move.

I agree he deserves more playing time, so why is Babcock not giving him more time? He certainly deserves it over useless Holl and Marincin, both of whom are AHL defensemen at best

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Big Big mistake sending Sandin down and keeping Marincin and Holl - those two suck, plain and simple - zero hockey IQ. Sandin is better then both of them combined

Sandin needs to improve this year so he can compete to slot into top-4 5v5 minutes + PP/PK next season. If Sandin plays 3rd pairing 5v5 minutes and no special teams this season, he does not improve as much.

It's better he spends this season developing as much as possible for next season when a couple 2nd pairing spots open for him and Liljegren to try and grab alongside who we manage to sign starting next year.

 

[thewave]

Big Big mistake sending Sandin down and keeping Marincin and Holl - those two suck, plain and simple - zero hockey IQ. Sandin is better then both of them combined

I think you're wrong and just like it when kids make this team because they are kids. I really don't think you know what you're seeing out of Sandin and that your vision may be blurred by the hype machine that was pushing Sandin so hard it hurt me physically.

I mean, sorry but he isn't quite ready. The coach is right. Dubas is right to send him down. The organization did a good thing here.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

I think you're wrong and just like it when kids make this team because they are kids. I really don't think you know what you're seeing out of Sandin and that your vision may be blurred by the hype machine that was pushing Sandin so hard it hurt me physically.

I mean, sorry but he isn't quite ready. The coach is right. Dubas is right to send him down. The organization did a good thing here.

There is zero for Sandin to learn by sending him back down. If anything it will stagnate his development. Yes, he's going to make mistakes but he's a better skater and passer than Holl or Marincin and possesses a higher IQ.

Let me guess, Dubas decided to send him down because he took a hit to the head. Wtf? Welcome to the NHL Sandin. What kind of a soft team are we building here? smh

 

[namttebih]

Improvement of what? Sandin has already dominated the AHL. What is Sandin going to show in the AHL that will indicate things would be any different playing 12 minutes a game of hyperfocused, ultra-sheltered under the microscope play under Babcock? Sandin is good enough to play in the NHL. He also got worse with basically every game he played under Babcock, which is not a surprise based on the deployment and paranoia about mistakes.

You kind of contradicted yourself there. I agree in that although the A may not be the breast league for him. Playing 20+ minutes for Keefe probably is

 

[GoonieFace]

I agree he deserves more playing time, so why is Babcock not giving him more time? He certainly deserves it over useless Holl and Marincin, both of whom are AHL defensemen at best

Well, he is playing with those guys so their ice time would be very similar. With their top 4 the way it is, there is really no extra time to give. So why not let him play top 2 minutes and PK and PP in the AHL.

 

[showtime8]

I agree he deserves more playing time, so why is Babcock not giving him more time? He certainly deserves it over useless Holl and Marincin, both of whom are AHL defensemen at best

He's going to get the equivalent to Holl & Marincin.

The ice-time that he is fighting for is against Morgan Rielly & Tyson Barrie. And it's pretty easy to see why he wouldn't get it when looking at those 2.

 

[Zizzzzy]

After the elbow to th4 face he took I don't mind him having some NHL downtime.

 

[sparxx87]

There is zero for Sandin to learn by sending him back down. If anything it will stagnate his development. Yes, he's going to make mistakes but he's a better skater and passer than Holl or Marincin and possesses a higher IQ.

Let me guess, Dubas decided to send him down because he took a hit to the head. Wtf? Welcome to the NHL Sandin. What kind of a soft team are we building here? smh

You can’t be serious. Zero to gain from playing 20 minutes per night in all situations? He’s nineteen and still in need of some refinement.

 

[Tak7]

This thread has been great at revealing which folks are so anti-Babcock / Dubas that they refuse to see this as a good move for a 19 year prospect who isnt quite ready.

Which it is.

There's also cap ramifications here linked to Dermott's return.

 

[Tak7]

There is zero for Sandin to learn by sending him back down. If anything it will stagnate his development. Yes, he's going to make mistakes but he's a better skater and passer than Holl or Marincin and possesses a higher IQ.

Let me guess, Dubas decided to send him down because he took a hit to the head. Wtf? Welcome to the NHL Sandin. What kind of a soft team are we building here? smh

Suggesting a 19 year old prospect not quite ready for the NHL, having nothing to learn by playing 20-22 minutes of all-situation hockey every night, is such an hilariously bad take.

Come on man.

 

[ACC1224]

Not surprised he went down, was more surprising it didn't happen sooner.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sandin needs to improve this year so he can compete to slot into top-4 5v5 minutes + PP/PK next season. If Sandin plays 3rd pairing 5v5 minutes and no special teams this season, he does not improve as much.

It's better he spends this season developing as much as possible for next season when a couple 2nd pairing spots open for him and Liljegren to try and grab alongside who we manage to sign starting next year.

That might be a little bit hasty, but he should at least be able to replace the ES role Dermott played last year and maybe even garner some more special teams time early on. Same goes for Liljegren. I wouldn't count on either being a top 4 defenseman next year, but quality bottom pairing is well within reach after another year on the top pairing in the AHL.

For those saying he has nothing to learn in the AHL, or that he has dominated the AHL, he hasn't. A lot of the errors which he made at the NHL level and are keeping him from being NHL quality at this point are the same mistakes he made at the AHL level. He needs to iron those things out, and I'd rather him do it playing upwards of 20 minutes a night against top AHL competition than in a sheltered 10-12 minute role against NHL grinders and fringe players who are likely not much better than the AHL competition.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Gravel in, Sand out. It’s a matter of coarse!

 

[stickty111]

That might be a little bit hasty, but he should at least be able to replace the ES role Dermott played last year and maybe even garner some more special teams time early on. Same goes for Liljegren. I wouldn't count on either being a top 4 defenseman next year, but quality bottom pairing is well within reach after another year on the top pairing in the AHL.

For those saying he has nothing to learn in the AHL, or that he has dominated the AHL, he hasn't. A lot of the errors which he made at the NHL level and are keeping him from being NHL quality at this point are the same mistakes he made at the AHL level. He needs to iron those things out, and I'd rather him do it playing upwards of 20 minutes a night against top AHL competition than in a sheltered 10-12 minute role against NHL grinders and fringe players who are likely not much better than the AHL competition.

If people would just ignore Sandin's point totals, he didn't dominate last year and stills need to get better defensively.
People should read this post by @SeaOfBlue

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

The kid undeniably has talent and poise on both sides of the puck. That being said I think this is a good thing. He got a cup of coffee and can now go down and have an AHL season in while knowing the things he has to work on such as using body positioning and momentum and different techniques for winning puck battles in a low pressure environment surrounded by veteren players he can lean on for advice. We also don’t have to protect him in the expansion draft if he plays less than nine games this year.

 

[the squared circle]

your avatar is the scariest thing on HF Boards.

 

[Ciao]

There's already an active thread on the Sandin assignment. What does this add?

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh good another Sandin thread.

 

[Advanced stats]

Obviously it's a good thing. Development is better in the AHL.

 

[ACC1224]

The kid undeniably has talent and poise on both sides of the puck. That being said I think this is a good thing. He got a cup of coffee and can now go down and have an AHL season in while knowing the things he has to work on such as using body positioning and momentum and different techniques for winning puck battles in a low pressure environment surrounded by veteren players he can lean on for advice. We also don’t have to protect him in the expansion draft if he plays less than nine games this year.

Recalled/Assigned: - Leafs Loan Rasmus Sandin to Marlies | Re-Call Kevin Gravel

Here you go. Lots of good stuff in there.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

laine does have a weird face

 

[biotk]

You kind of contradicted yourself there. I agree in that although the A may not be the breast league for him. Playing 20+ minutes for Keefe probably is

I am not contradicting what I am saying there. You don't understand what I was saying based on the conversation at that time which is fine. Sandin should be in the AHL based on usage - I have been calling for that - again based on usage, not ability - since the first period of game 1. But no amount of improvement is going to matter at all if he is brought up at the end of the season to fill the same role he was given at the start of the season, because it is a usage issue and a role that no young talented D should be put in. If you put Sandin, or Liljegren, or had put a debuting McAvoy or any other talented young D into a 12 minutes a game of hyperfocused, ultra-sheltered under the microscope role under Babcock they are going to fail. I said during game one that the way Babcock was using him was wiping out the confidence of the most confident young D I have seen in years and that was going to lead to unnatural and nervous play and would result in more mistakes and worse play the more games he played under Babcock.

There is a reason why (by far) most top-4 Ds in the NHL started in the league as top-4s. There is a reason why Dermott hasn't progressed beyond being an extremely sheltered 3rd pairing D. 3rd pairing and top-4 are completely different roles, and on no team is the role difference likely larger than under Babcock. It is stupid to think that eventual top-4 success can come out of bringing young Ds onto the 3rd pairing unless Babcock dramatically changes the role - something that I have long said - and something that Babcock knows himself - talking about how there was no sense keeping Sandin on the team because he wasn't going to get PP or PK time and that they had tried to find ways to get him more opportunities (playing shifts with Barrie and Rielly etc) but simply were not able to do so.

Sandin being sent down has nothing to do with ability. It has to do with availability of opportunities. Him improving in the AHL, while great, doesn't change that. If the Leafs feel that he is good enough to play top-4 and at the same time have a top-4 spot available they should bring him up. If they don't they shouldn't. It would be different if they were going to play him on the third pairing, but he was getting 17 or 18 minutes a game because they were bumping him up to the top-4 often during games and also were giving him PP and/or PK time, but that was not the case.

 

[varano]

Lol who gives a shit about the 9 game rule. Our window is the next three years and he is more than capable of playing in the NHL. Ten times smarter than Cody Ceci.