Confirmed with Link: Leafs have signed W Ilya Mikheyev to a 1 year ELC

[TorMapleJays]

This 100%.

We are 3 years into Matthews career and we have yet to see him play normal offensive minutes/usage that other players of his caliber receive.

Matthews had much more negotiation power than people want to believe.

You also don’t f*** around with your franchise player. Keep
Him happy

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

To an extent, but it really comes down to context.

For example, if Matthews experienced normal usage last season, he would have played 1:10 - 1:30 on the 1st PP unit with the best PP producer on the team Marner and would have likely had much better point totals. Just like how every other team does it.

Instead, he gets shoehorned into a dysfunctional 2nd PP unit with Nylander and some mixture of Brown/Komarov/Marleau and it artificially reduced his overall production.

You can't put out enough rate stats to properly quantify just how much Matthews' production was artificially limited by this strange usage by his coach.

Yet his rate of PP production is still elite through his ELC IIRC. Just lacks the ice time.

I don’t think I’m qualified to answer if it’s better to have balanced PP attack or stacked. But we’ll see if changes come next year.

 

[IPS]

Yet his rate of PP production is still elite through his ELC IIRC. Just lacks the ice time.

I don’t think I’m qualified to answer if it’s better to have balanced PP attack or stacked. But we’ll see if changes come next year.

Same here, I'm just arguing strictly through the perspective of Matthews' agent negotiating a contract.

On literally every other team around the league, you will see the best goal scorer on the team play with the best playmaker on the team on the PP. We somehow became an exception to this for whatever god forsaken reason.

 

[Kiwi]

You also don’t **** around with your franchise player. Keep
Him happy

I'm all for giving guys fair contracts but the Matthews contract is rediculous, he's a unicorn with his goalscoring and playing center but there is nothing I've seen that's even close to comparable on a 11.6M×5 contract

Nothing, that cap hit should have 6 or 7 years attached to it at least

 

[Mr Hockey]

I'm all for giving guys fair contracts but the Matthews contract is rediculous, he's a unicorn with his goalscoring and playing center but there is nothing I've seen that's even close to comparable on a 11.6M×5 contract

Nothing

finally...

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I'm all for giving guys fair contracts but the Matthews contract is rediculous, he's a unicorn with his goalscoring and playing center but there is nothing I've seen that's even close to comparable on a 11.6M×5 contract

Nothing, that cap hit should have 6 or 7 years attached to it at least

Malkin was more on 5yrs.

 

[Kiwi]

finally...

I've been consistent on this one, it's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination

Malkin was more on 5yrs.

With a cup in hand, I'm willing to pay for success
Unfortunately we haven't really had any yet

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I've been consistent on this one, it's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination



With a cup in hand, I'm willing to pay for success
Unfortunately we haven't really had any yet

Elite players don’t get penalised for team failure. McDavid doesn’t have a cup. Not Eichel. Not Ovechkin. Dunno why Matthews should be different. I’ve been pretty consistent on that.

Besides that, you say that you’ve been consistent that no contract even comes close to comparing. Guess that needs some revision?

 

[glucker]

How is it disingenuous when he finished with 1.07 ppg? He was barely over ppg and was declining rapidly since his first 21 games.

It's disingenuous because Marner's PPG is only .07 higher than Matthews's, and you didn't point that out. It's a tiny difference, easily explained away by QOT, role, and lingering effects of injury.

And saying that Matthews regressed is also disingenuous when you're not factoring injury effects, and ignore that over the backhalf of the season, Marner only scored 5 more points, with 6 less goals. Did Marner also decline rapidly in the back-half? If so, why not mention that?

 

[BlueForever75]

I've been consistent on this one, it's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination



With a cup in hand, I'm willing to pay for success
Unfortunately we haven't really had any yet

Wow, incredible how Leaf fans continue to complain about what player "A" makes compared to player "B". And how Cups now drive the price a player should be paid!

There is one cup winner a year, using your specifications on what warrants a player getting a big contract. We should only have 5-10 players in the NHL getting paid!!!

There is one question though that I have...…….

Werent you the one that applauded the Tavares signing when it happened? Could have sworn you applauded it. What exactly did he win prior to his current contract?

Superstars, young superstars are going to be paid in the NHL regardless of winning a cup or not. It's common ground. If any team wants long term success its their youth that will keep them competitive long term. At the very least these signings keep us competitive in a sport that like I mentioned before has only 1 cup winner a year. The goal should be to position the team to be in contention every year. Giving you a chance every year. The Leafs signings have done that.

People need to stop the whining.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The CBA will be re-done soon enough as the players have had enough with the escrow. The NHL may give up the escrow and then maybe the CBA will get renewed. and top earning teams will fight for a couple exemptions to the AAV. Bottom line is the bottom half of league owners will take it on the chin. otherwise we can back to a strike or a free market system where some teams will perish which is ok.

 

[Kiwi]

Wow, incredible how Leaf fans continue to complain about what player "A" makes compared to player "B". And how Cups now drive the price a player should be paid!

There is one cup winner a year, using your specifications on what warrants a player getting a big contract. We should only have 5-10 players in the NHL getting paid!!!

There is one question though that I have...…….

Werent you the one that applauded the Tavares signing when it happened? Could have sworn you applauded it. What exactly did he win prior to his current contract?

Superstars, young superstars are going to be paid in the NHL regardless of winning a cup or not. It's common ground. If any team wants long term success its their youth that will keep them competitive long term. At the very least these signings keep us competitive in a sport that like I mentioned before has only 1 cup winner a year. The goal should be to position the team to be in contention every year. Giving you a chance every year. The Leafs signings have done that.

People need to stop the whining.

I don't care about Marner and if he's not willing to sign something palatable to our cap situation he should be traded

Tavares signed a fair UFA deal for his abilities while we still had cap space and Marner decided to go last so cry me a river if we don't have as much money available for him

I saw your post in the trade thread, your clearly emotionally invested in Marner so you need to look at this logically

If he won't sign something acceptable he should get traded
If he slow walks negotiations and affects our ability to sort out the rest of the team he should be traded

He's not bigger and more important than the team

That's not whining, that's actual reality

 

[Bluelines]

Yet his rate of PP production is still elite through his ELC IIRC. Just lacks the ice time.

I don’t think I’m qualified to answer if it’s better to have balanced PP attack or stacked. But we’ll see if changes come next year.

TBH I think if you are going to pair Tavares with Marner 5on5, give Matthews 1st unit PP and put Marner and Tavares as your 2nd unit PP.

Dubas has got to find Marner a legit winger, I suspect that is Nylander.

 

[Fogelhund]

TBH I think if you are going to pair Tavares with Marner 5on5, give Matthews 1st unit PP and put Marner and Tavares as your 2nd unit PP.

Dubas has got to find Marner a legit winger, I suspect that is Nylander.

Dubas has to find Marner a legit winger????

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

All those players you named had 100+ point seasons minus Eichel.

Your post is kind of off topic to what I was saying, fwiw. I’ll take that to mean you are agreeing that players get paid to be good players, not because they won a cup as a team.

But to address your comment as a separate thread of discussion, players also don’t get judged based on how they perform when they are not on the ice. A lot of PP time and 5v5 ice goes into a 100+ point season, Art Ross, and rocket-calibre season, and not all those factors (team PP time, player individual ice time) is a factor that an individual player has control over. The factors that contribute to a forwards contracts is mostly contract term and rate of primary point production. That is the most consistent factor you can use to line up against contracts and see some sense of why forwards get paid what they do. Not cups, not Art Ross wins (though can be somewhat related), not rockets (though can be somewhat related). And rightfully so. It’s mostly how much a player produces when they are on the ice, which makes a lot of sense tbh.

 

[Bluelines]

Dubas has to find Marner a legit winger????

LOL, I meant Matthews, typing while tired.

 

[Its not your fault]

The CBA will be re-done soon enough as the players have had enough with the escrow. The NHL may give up the escrow and then maybe the CBA will get renewed. and top earning teams will fight for a couple exemptions to the AAV. Bottom line is the bottom half of league owners will take it on the chin. otherwise we can back to a strike or a free market system where some teams will perish which is ok.

Pretty sure Last 3 lock outs the players lost.

 

[Joey Hoser]

How long has it been since somebody said something about Ilya Mikeyev in here?

 

[Fogelhund]

How long has it been since somebody said something about Ilya Mikeyev in here?

22 minutes before my post.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Of some of the players mentioned:

Minutes Played in First Season of 100 Pts

McDavid 1732:47 TOI 248:53 PPTOI
Malkin 1748:21 TOI 412:42 PPTOI
Ovechkin 1751:22 TOI 544:33 PPTOI

Minutes Played Last Full Season Before Contract

Matthews 1123:57 TOI 133:04 PPTOI

Yea, once you factor in ice time, Matthews scores goals at a higher rate than Ovechkin did in his ELC. He produced primary points at a higher rate than Malkin did in his ELC, which are the most impactful factor (along with contract term) that determines contract AAV. And he did it over a year younger. Matthews (19-20: 5x14.01%) got ~8-9% less than the Malkin contract (09-10: 5x15.32%) despite that. Also keep in mind that Malkin was given this contract before he won any awards. No Cups, No Art Ross, No Hart, No Smythe. Only a Calder -- just like Matthews.

Table for reference of production: Salary Cap: - Marner Deal Discussion

I don't usually include McDavid when evaluating contracts as Alberta has no provincial tax, similar situation to Tampa Bay. Believe Matthews scores goals at a ridiculously higher rate and p1 at a higher rate than McDavid as well.

 

[Morbo]

How long has it been since somebody said something about Ilya Mikeyev in here?

to be fair, he's not a terribly exciting topic

 

[Mess]

How long has it been since somebody said something about Ilya Mikeyev in here?

Most Leaf fans have never seen him play, but have seen the recent success rate of "free wallet" previously undrafted signings so expectation are tempered.

We're really going to have to see this guy in action in a Leaf jersey first at training camp and exhibition season to form any real opinion on what his impact might be.

 

[LaPlante94]

Of some of the players mentioned:

Minutes Played in First Season of 100 Pts

McDavid 1732:47 TOI 248:53 PPTOI
Malkin 1748:21 TOI 412:42 PPTOI
Ovechkin 1751:22 TOI 544:33 PPTOI

Minutes Played Last Full Season Before Contract

Matthews 1123:57 TOI 133:04 PPTOI

Good point

 

[jrgtml67]

No one gets it...his contract won't look so rich even 2 yrs in when the cap goes up what 5 to 6mill a year. Like enough already enjoy us having some great talent for once, we have had garbage for so long yet now that we have great young stars many just like to complain

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Good point

If a person played 24 minutes per game (which is a lot), those guys played an extra 26 games to get those numbers. We know Matthews is a Pt/GP player so it isn't unreasonable to think with those kind of minutes he could hit 100. Heck Marner almost did last year. I think the scarier part is looking at the huge PP numbers those guys got. 544 minutes versus 133? Yikes! Ovechkin literally played over 9 full 60 minute games on the PP. LOL