Confirmed with Link: Leafs have signed W Ilya Mikheyev to a 1 year ELC

[MyBudJT]

There is a **** ton of annnoying misdirection in this post. There is not one player Marner has helped to a significantly better season that the season preceding without him. Not a single one. However, he got 25 more points playing with an elite player well-known for making his linemates significantly better.


Matthews - 205 points in 212 games. 111 goals. 2018/19 PPG - 1.07 Career PPG - .97
Marner - 224 points in 241 games. 67 goals. 2018/19 PPG - 1.14 Career PPG - .93


Linemates this past season. Matthews - Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnsson, Patrick Marleau. 3rd/4th line caliber.

Linemates this past season. Marner - John Tavares, Zach Hyman. 1st/3rd line caliber.

There is literally not one parameter that you could say that Marner has a distinct advantage, save assists - which, I have been told, is practically worthless (see every Nylander thread). The caveat being unless it pertains to Marner. Marner goes on the PK, and it dropped almost to the bottom third of the league.

Matthews plays a premier position, plays with 3rd liners, played injured, and yet still put up numbers. One of the top ES goals scorers since he entered the NHL. Marner played against top competition because he had Hyman (who often plays against the opposition's best), and Tavares (who always played against the oppositions best) on his line.

How can the Leafs pay a guy with a career high of 26 goals (thanks to one hot stretch of 9 goals in 7 games) Matthews money when he hasn't earned it? How about he win some post-season hardware, or heck....even get invited to a mid-season all-star game before giving out any sort of big money?

Bolded is wrong. Marner made Kadri a P/GP player, when they played together over a 35-40 game sample to finish off the 2017-2018 season.

 

[jrgtml67]

More will be gone. And more people will be signed as ufas and traded for.

Leafs need real dmen. Everybody is talking about rhd and I am not sure about lhd at all. Reilly is a floater, useless in puck battles. The power play stinks with him on it. Yes, he is racking up a ton of points in the regular season due to offensive starts, but that is not enough. Who is going to do the rest of the work for him? He is not a 1-2 dman for sure. He is not even specialist as he can't create any penetration quaterbacking the pp. Hell knows what he is. I'd try to trade him for Subban. He is from Toronto and way more effective player. Leafs brought in lhd Muzzin, because they needed real lhd they didn't have in two waterbugs Gardiner and Reilly. That was not a mistake. Now Leafs have one good lhd. And yes, they still have to trade for a rhd as they have 0.5 of good rhd in Zaytsev.

Leafs also need a reliable shutdown center as Kadri failed again. He is not a shutdown center, just another stopgap. As we know that they speak with Andronov, it's clear that Kadri'll be gone as soon as they have a replacement. Marleau will also be gone. Lots of changes coming.

Ya well first order of business as outlined by Dubas is signing Mitch because once his AAV and term is set in stone you can make subsequent moves. Dubas surely learnt from Nylander impasse, plus literally hands are tied until he actually signs Mitch again because you can't make trades or other bigger moves until you have a guy like that locked

 

[kb]

Bolded is wrong. Marner made Kadri a P/GP player, when they played together over a 35-40 game sample to finish off the 2017-2018 season.

Kadri before Marner - GP: 82 G: 32 A: 29 P: 61
Kadri with Marner - GP: 80 G: 32 A: 23 P: 55

I get what you are saying, but it's still not really wrong. It's possible Kadri was heating up and the timing was fortuitous - we won't ever really know. I guess the point for me is.....let's just back up the overhype train. He's not the player Matthews is, nor is he worth that sort of money as a pass-first playmaking winger. They should be paid less than goal scoring wingers, and definitely paid less than goal scoring C's.

In any event, I think that with the candy being handed out like it's Halloween, it's a good thing the Leafs are checking all the empty wrappers just in case....

 

[MyBudJT]

Kadri before Marner - GP: 82 G: 32 A: 29 P: 61
Kadri with Marner - GP: 80 G: 32 A: 23 P: 55

I get what you are saying, but it's still not really wrong. It's possible Kadri was heating up and the timing was fortuitous - we won't ever really know. I guess the point for me is.....let's just back up the overhype train. He's not the player Matthews is, nor is he worth that sort of money as a pass-first playmaking winger. They should be paid less than goal scoring wingers, and definitely paid less than goal scoring C's.

In any event, I think that with the candy being handed out like it's Halloween, it's a good thing the Leafs are checking all the empty wrappers just in case....

Again, this is incorrect....

Kadri 2017-2018 season:

Without Marner (Prior Jan 24th): 47GP 14G 25P (44 point pace)
With Marner (Jan 24th and later): 33GP 18G 30P (75 point pace)

Kadri 2018-2019 (without Marner): 73GP 16G 44P (49 point pace)

In essence, without Marner, Kadri has been a 45-50 point player the past couple seasons. WIth Marner, he is a 75 point player.

 

[aingefan]

I’m kinda hoping/envisioning the Matthews line and the fourth line having interchangeable wingers.

Moore, Bracco one set.
Marleau, Micheyev, maybe Korshkov, another.

Mix and match, find the best combinations for certain matchups, and gear up for some playoff double shifting.

 

[DarkKnight]

There is a **** ton of annnoying misdirection in this post. There is not one player Marner has helped to a significantly better season that the season preceding without him. Not a single one. However, he got 25 more points playing with an elite player well-known for making his linemates significantly better.


Matthews - 205 points in 212 games. 111 goals. 2018/19 PPG - 1.07 Career PPG - .97
Marner - 224 points in 241 games. 67 goals. 2018/19 PPG - 1.14 Career PPG - .93


Linemates this past season. Matthews - Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnsson, Patrick Marleau. 3rd/4th line caliber.

Linemates this past season. Marner - John Tavares, Zach Hyman. 1st/3rd line caliber.

There is literally not one parameter that you could say that Marner has a distinct advantage, save assists - which, I have been told, is practically worthless (see every Nylander thread). The caveat being unless it pertains to Marner. Marner goes on the PK, and it dropped almost to the bottom third of the league.

Matthews plays a premier position, plays with 3rd liners, played injured, and yet still put up numbers. One of the top ES goals scorers since he entered the NHL. Marner played against top competition because he had Hyman (who often plays against the opposition's best), and Tavares (who always played against the oppositions best) on his line.

How can the Leafs pay a guy with a career high of 26 goals (thanks to one hot stretch of 9 goals in 7 games) Matthews money when he hasn't earned it? How about he win some post-season hardware, or heck....even get invited to a mid-season all-star game before giving out any sort of big money?

Lol with all this career high garbage for a third year pro who's just coming into a "prime". Your whole premise is a bs misdirection. Go look at JT's lllooooonngg career and you'll see something quite interesting about his 5 v 5 numbers this year.

 

[kb]

Again, this is incorrect....

Kadri 2017-2018 season:

Without Marner (Prior Jan 24th): 47GP 14G 25P (44 point pace)
With Marner (Jan 24th and later): 33GP 18G 30P (75 point pace)

Kadri 2018-2019 (without Marner): 73GP 16G 44P (49 point pace)

In essence, without Marner, Kadri has been a 45-50 point player the past couple seasons. WIth Marner, he is a 75 point player.

Well, if one wanted to skew an argument, sure. Or you could do it this way.

Marner 2017-2018 season

Without Kadri (Prior Jan 24th): 47GP 6G 32P (56 point pace)
With Kadri (Jan 24th and later): 35GP 16G 37P (87 point pace)

So who was the true beneficiary in this? Do you think only Kadri benefited from this pairing? The season before, Kadri had 32 G and 29A. He didn't even come close to those numbers. Is it not feasible that Marner benefited from Kadri as much or more than Kadri benefited from Marner?

Lets take this season. JT had 4 more points playing with Marner, Hyman had 1 more point. Marner? 25 more points playing with these 2. Seems obvious who is the major beneficiary is here.

 

[kb]

Lol with all this career high garbage for a third year pro who's just coming into a "prime". Your whole premise is a bs misdirection. Go look at JT's lllooooonngg career and you'll see something quite interesting about his 5 v 5 numbers this year.

So a 3rd year pro coming into his prime who is playing with one of the NHL's best C's and boosted his own point totals by 25 (while his linemates boosted theirs by 4 and 1 respectively) is the sole reason for their success? And needs to be paid like Matthews?

All I am saying is let's back off the hype train. He's a playmaking winger who had one hot streak of 9G in 7 games and still only got 26. He played with Tavares. Let's just step back and take a deep breath and say he isn't worth a dime more than Kucherov under ANY circumstances.

 

[DarkKnight]

So a 3rd year pro coming into his prime who is playing with one of the NHL's best C's and boosted his own point totals by 25 (while his linemates boosted theirs by 4 and 1 respectively) is the sole reason for their success? And needs to be paid like Matthews?

All I am saying is let's back off the hype train. He's a playmaking winger who had one hot streak of 9G in 7 games and still only got 26. He played with Tavares. Let's just step back and take a deep breath and say he isn't worth a dime more than Kucherov under ANY circumstances.

Who said anything about Matthews money? Heck, I don't think Matthews deserves Matthews money. Not with that term.

 

[BlueForever75]

So a 3rd year pro coming into his prime who is playing with one of the NHL's best C's and boosted his own point totals by 25 (while his linemates boosted theirs by 4 and 1 respectively) is the sole reason for their success? And needs to be paid like Matthews?

All I am saying is let's back off the hype train. He's a playmaking winger who had one hot streak of 9G in 7 games and still only got 26. He played with Tavares. Let's just step back and take a deep breath and say he isn't worth a dime more than Kucherov under ANY circumstances.

Couldn't agree with you more. Marner's breakout season had a lot to do with whom he played with. Yes he makes his linemates better, but in the end when you have a player like Tavares on your line its not hard to have a good season.

Marner shouldn't get a penny more then Kucherov.

 

[MyBudJT]

Probably posted already, but in case it hasnt:



Looks skilled and a good Johnsson replacement!

I took a rough tally on the amount of plays that came from each side... (agian, its rough)

Left Side: 15
Left - Center: 19
Right - Center: 17
Right Side: 12

Looks like he likes to play in all areas of the ice.

Given our depth at RW, and our lack of depth at LW... Mikheyev should be a Top 9 LWer for a next season.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

More will be gone. And more people will be signed as ufas and traded for.

Leafs need real dmen. Everybody is talking about rhd and I am not sure about lhd at all. Reilly is a floater, useless in puck battles. The power play stinks with him on it. Yes, he is racking up a ton of points in the regular season due to offensive starts, but that is not enough. Who is going to do the rest of the work for him? He is not a 1-2 dman for sure. He is not even specialist as he can't create any penetration quaterbacking the pp. Hell knows what he is. I'd try to trade him for Subban. He is from Toronto and way more effective player. Leafs brought in lhd Muzzin, because they needed real lhd they didn't have in two waterbugs Gardiner and Reilly. That was not a mistake. Now Leafs have one good lhd. And yes, they still have to trade for a rhd as they have 0.5 of good rhd in Zaytsev.

Leafs also need a reliable shutdown center as Kadri failed again. He is not a shutdown center, just another stopgap. As we know that they speak with Andronov, it's clear that Kadri'll be gone as soon as they have a replacement. Marleau will also be gone. Lots of changes coming.

Good Lord what a terrible take.

If Zaitsev is 0.5 of a good RHD what the hell is your rating for Rielly as a LHD?

 

[Its not your fault]

If Leafs are trying to dump Brown's contract, a GM will not give you fair market. Same would apply to Z.

Why because you hope someone might get angry. What if they target a player that gets better then brown but isn't now woah that's exactly what will happen.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Well, if one wanted to skew an argument, sure. Or you could do it this way.

Marner 2017-2018 season

Without Kadri (Prior Jan 24th): 47GP 6G 32P (56 point pace)
With Kadri (Jan 24th and later): 35GP 16G 37P (87 point pace)

So who was the true beneficiary in this? Do you think only Kadri benefited from this pairing? The season before, Kadri had 32 G and 29A. He didn't even come close to those numbers. Is it not feasible that Marner benefited from Kadri as much or more than Kadri benefited from Marner?

Lets take this season. JT had 4 more points playing with Marner, Hyman had 1 more point. Marner? 25 more points playing with these 2. Seems obvious who is the major beneficiary is here.

Rofl what a bad post.

You honestly think marner benefited more from kadri than the other way around?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Again, this is incorrect....

Kadri 2017-2018 season:

Without Marner (Prior Jan 24th): 47GP 14G 25P (44 point pace)
With Marner (Jan 24th and later): 33GP 18G 30P (75 point pace)

Kadri 2018-2019 (without Marner): 73GP 16G 44P (49 point pace)

In essence, without Marner, Kadri has been a 45-50 point player the past couple seasons. WIth Marner, he is a 75 point player.

I'll disagree about Marner improving Kadri's totals THAT much. Kadri benefitted greatly by being Matthews and Nylanders left winger on the PP. Kadri's was never a 30 goal third line centre. He was 2nd/3rd line centre with first line minutes on the PP.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Lol with all this career high garbage for a third year pro who's just coming into a "prime". Your whole premise is a bs misdirection. Go look at JT's lllooooonngg career and you'll see something quite interesting about his 5 v 5 numbers this year.

This kb guy seems like he really doesn't like marner. Its sad.

No one who actually watches the leafs can honestly say that marner does not improve his linemates.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Probably posted already, but in case it hasnt:



Looks skilled and a good Johnsson replacement!

I took a rough tally on the amount of plays that came from each side... (agian, its rough)

Left Side: 15
Left - Center: 19
Right - Center: 17
Right Side: 12

Looks like he likes to play in all areas of the ice.

Given our depth at RW, and our lack of depth at LW... Mikheyev should be a Top 9 LWer for a next season.

agreed. this guy is an nhler for sure.

 

[ICBM]

Good Lord what a terrible take.

If Zaitsev is 0.5 of a good RHD what the hell is your rating for Rielly as a LHD?

Zaitsev is much more competent defensively. But he is small and thin guy not suited for puck battles. At least he tried though. You want me to compare Zaitsev to Reilly? 15 vs 11 hits in the playoffs. Yes, you got 11 hits from your number 1 dman in 7 games. That's ca. 0.35 if compared to Zaitsev. Compare him to McAvoy with his 2.14 hits per game (Chara with 2.14 and even Krug 1.6) in the playoffs. And McAvoy hits much harder. That's my simple math for you. You need fighters, not lovers to win in the playoffs.

 

[Kiwi]

This kb guy seems like he really doesn't like marner. Its sad.

No one who actually watches the leafs can honestly say that marner does not improve his linemates.

Marner is a fine player but you've got to be kidding if you think he's not benefiting from playing with Tavares a franchise level 1C and Hyman our most physical puck retrieving LW

Marner makes guys playing with him better just like those guys have helped elevate his game

Funny that, and trying to instill some realism into some of you doesn't mean you actually dislike the player

Marner is a fine player but **** off he's worth the Matthews contract as has been his reported ask, just **** right off

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Bolded is wrong. Marner made Kadri a P/GP player, when they played together over a 35-40 game sample to finish off the 2017-2018 season.

This and it’s clear just from the eye-test he makes his linemates better. Any who denies that is just plain wrong. Who doesn’t want to play with the guy who sees the ice better than almost anyone in the league?

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Marner is a fine player but you've got to be kidding if you think he's not benefiting from playing with Tavares a franchise level 1C and Hyman our most physical puck retrieving LW

Marner makes guys playing with him better just like those guys have helped elevate his game

Funny that, and trying to instill some realism into some of you doesn't mean you actually dislike the player

Marner is a fine player but **** off he's worth the Matthews contract as has been his reported ask, just **** right off

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but saying Marner is just a ‘fine’ player at this point is selling him a tad short no? I’d say he’s a top 20 player in the league and likely going to go higher.

 

[Kiwi]

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but saying Marner is just a ‘fine’ player at this point is selling him a tad short no? I’d say he’s a top 20 player in the league and likely going to go higher.

He's certainly a top 5ish winger, but I wouldn't put him in the top 20 players yet

Once you start writing franchise level 1C and 1D down that list fills up pretty quickly

He's certainly got room to grow and I'm desperate to keep him but the hype is getting excessive

Matthews contract is an abomination and he's an elite goal scoring franchise leading #1C, so if the reports are true and that's Marner's ask I'm lost for words how bad that is

I think if he got 10M×8 he's had a major win looking at contracts around the league, we've handed out some ridiculous contracts and I can't believe people are OK with doing it again because it's Mitch

No, just no

 

[Martin Skoula]

Zaitsev is much more competent defensively. But he is small and thin guy not suited for puck battles. At least he tried though. You want me to compare Zaitsev to Reilly? 15 vs 11 hits in the playoffs. Yes, you got 11 hits from your number 1 dman in 7 games. That's ca. 0.35 if compared to Zaitsev. Compare him to McAvoy with his 2.14 hits per game (Chara with 2.14 and even Krug 1.6) in the playoffs. And McAvoy hits much harder. That's my simple math for you. You need fighters, not lovers to win in the playoffs.

Where is Rielly supposed to hit guys when he has the puck on his stick when he's on the ice?

Rielly with a single hit, steal, zone exit and sustained offensive pressure is a worse situation than Zaitsev chasing the puck in his own zone and landing 3 hits without gaining possession according to your logic.

 

[ICBM]

Where is Rielly supposed to hit guys when he has the puck on his stick when he's on the ice?

Rielly with a single hit, steal, zone exit and sustained offensive pressure is a worse situation than Zaitsev chasing the puck in his own zone and landing 3 hits without gaining possession according to your logic.

I am not buying that "Puck on his stick" myth. Leafs pp, which he quarterbacks, did nothing vs Boston. He never gets pucks through, just throws them to nearest player. His time on pk was very limited. What kind of nr. 1 dman is that?
Switch him with Zaytsev and you will see at least same pp results (if not better) and awful pk and even strength results.

Rielly is defensive wormhole without grandpa Ron covering his bottom. Ron battles for the pucks and grandson is waiting for the pass to start the attack. And this is rare situation: Reilly mostly gets offensive starts. Coach can't rely on him in the d-zone.
Why Reilly - Zaytsev pair was not successful? Because Zaytsev is not as good as Hainsey in taking the puck away from opposition. And Reilly can't take puck back at all. You need to put him with pure stay at home to compensate that. He is just an overhyped waterbug.
Leafs need real d to have any success in the playoffs. It's not like: we have Reilly, Muzzin and we have to trade Zaitsev. Leafs have first pair dman Muzzin (signed for one season) , second pair Reilly and Zaitsev (who can't play together) , and couple of good young guys in the a (that never played in the NHL) . Either Zaitsev or Reilly has to be traded. Forwards have to be traded also to get real dmen.

 

[Big Cactus]

Zaitsev is much more competent defensively. But he is small and thin guy not suited for puck battles. At least he tried though. You want me to compare Zaitsev to Reilly? 15 vs 11 hits in the playoffs. Yes, you got 11 hits from your number 1 dman in 7 games. That's ca. 0.35 if compared to Zaitsev. Compare him to McAvoy with his 2.14 hits per game (Chara with 2.14 and even Krug 1.6) in the playoffs. And McAvoy hits much harder. That's my simple math for you. You need fighters, not lovers to win in the playoffs.

Hits don’t equal success or good Defense. Roman Polak hit a lot. He’s not good at anything. Zaitsev is not as good as Reilly because Zaitsev spends the entire shift in his end. He is incapable of breaking the puck out (skating or passing) it’s chip off the glass, turnover, or icing, turnover.

While Reilly may not be a better traditional defender as in breaking the cycle or 1 on 1 defence; he offsets that completely by the ability to drive play towards the other net. He’s a better defender because he has to play actual defense much much less than Z