if you replace him with someone that can actually play D at an elite level. and you promote gardiner to the 1st pp unit, I'd wager we would have done better.
TSN: Leafs are highly motivated to deal
- Thread starter HockeyGuruPitka
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if you replace him with someone that can actually play D at an elite level. and you promote gardiner to the 1st pp unit, I'd wager we would have done better.
Leafidelity
Best Sport/Worst League
He's been a regular on the World Championships when the Leafs were still outside the playoffs. And not only made the team but was named an alternate Captain and top pairing. He's also been voted to the Allstar game as a non fan vote. Two coaches in a row have used him in a workhorse role logging huge minutes. I can't remember a defenseman in Toronto leaned on more.
Make no mistake, he's a fine defenseman being stretched thin because how shallow our talent on the blueline is. Gardiner might be better someday, but he's not today.
LeafsBro
34 I 91 I 16
I agree he is fine. He's just not the norris candidate leafs nation thinks he is, and quite frankly, WC's is usually the B or C squad. And I am saying Gardiner for the 1st POWER PLAY UNIT. Nobody seems to understand this.
what does a 8 second sample size have to do with a hockey analysis?
Orr scored a goal this year right? Should I show that clip and say how he's a goal scorer and should be utilized more?
Phaneuf is not a great skater or rusher. This is not an opinion. It's a fact.
The Examiner
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Me>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheaper than Kostka.
Do you really want me playing D for the Leafs?
The Examiner
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Great point about Stevens. I was just thinking the same thing ( not about Stevens, exactly, but about Phaneuf playing a less offensive role). Great example. Biggest difference between Dion and Scott is that Scott had a mean streak. Dion doesn't.
I don't agree with Hal Gill though, he's awful. Plus I would want a more mobile defenseman paired with Dion.
Not at all.
You asked about Letang and Phaneuf, so I showed you how it could be done.
Then you asked about Kessel, so I showed you how that could be done.
If you want me to solve all the salaries for the entire team, I'm going to need more to be paid much more.
Obviously some choices have to be made, maybe Franson can be traded, or they can forget about the $4M third line winger that supposedly on his way. There are options.
Perhaps looking for solutions, rather than focusing on the problems is something you could work on.
Stats don't tell the whole story, but they tell a heck of a lot more than the "I watch the games" argument.
What do you see in this?
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Actually Phaneuf was voted in by the fans (assuming the majority was Leafs fans) as one of the first six players selected for the 2012 All Star Game.
mydnyte
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Stats don't tell the whole story, but they tell a heck of a lot more than the "I watch the games" argument.
What do you see in this?
2 colors
Not at all.
You asked about Letang and Phaneuf, so I showed you how it could be done.
Then you asked about Kessel, so I showed you how that could be done.
If you want me to solve all the salaries for the entire team, I'm going to need more to be paid much more.
Obviously some choices have to be made, maybe Franson can be traded, or they can forget about the $4M third line winger that supposedly on his way. There are options.
Perhaps looking for solutions, rather than focusing on the problems is something you could work on.
A solution would be to rid themselves of Grabovski, Liles and Komisarek. Even if you rid yourself of 2 guys you're winning the battle. I think Letang would be a foolish move even though I like him as a player. I don't think they are 1-2 players away from a Stanley Cup. Value your assets, keep guys like Gardiner and Rielly around because there's no guarantee the guys below them Percy, Finn, and Blacker can fill the void especially when it may take a guy like Gardiner to get Letang. Be smart with your money no reason to spend just for the sake of spending and keeping Letang and Phaneuf for 14 mil a year wouldn't be wise.
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Phaneuf has made the all star team more than once unlike new world leader and dignitary Joffrey Lupul the true captain and Prime Minister of Canada.
The Examiner
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There is also no guarantee that Gardiner or Reilly will ever reach Letang's level. I'm not saying that they won't but you could use the same argument.
Jtabo
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The Examiner
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He cant be worse than Kostka
Ha ha. My point exactly.
I don't want Kostka on this team even if its for $1 per year.
Bernier the Boats
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If he shoots right then sign him up. Dion needs a new partner, and the auditions are open. He can have the slot after Holzer but before Blacker.
The Examiner
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TMLife*
Auston Matthews
If Gunnarsson was so great, we'd be hearing coaches mentioning him as a threat. The fact is, if he was even close to a top shut down defenceman, expect to pay him $4 million per.
Gunnarsson is EXTREMELY overrated. That is why you rarely see anyone outside of the Leafs wanting to take him in trades for a #1C. I've seen clowns include him deals for top players and yes, I chuckle. Heck, when Gunnars was on the mid-pairing against mediocre lines, he didn't even look steady at all. Gunnarsson is pretty much an entry-level mid-pairing who is better off on the bottom-pairing...
I really question whether you've watched a game. Gardiner has TERRIBLE defensive awareness and that's even noticeable when he was against the Paverley line. It must be a Harlem Globetrotter effect, because people are getting turned on by theatrics (i.e. smooth skating). No wonder he's considered overrated.
There's so much ******** in this post, but I'll keep my rebuttals simple, since I have neither the care, nor the time, to fully refute your baseless claims.
I want you to guess who either of the following player's are:
Player A
GA On/60- 2.93
GF On/60-2.72
NET On/60- -0.21
GA Off/60- 2.53
GF Off/60- 2.90
NET Off/60- 0.37
Player A plays the most difficult competition on his team (among defensemen), so the fact that the team plays better with him off than with him on is likely (at least in part) due to the fact that the competition is not nearly as good when he comes off.
Player B
GA On/60- 2.46
GF On/60- 2.94
NET On/60- 0.47
GA Off/60- 3.22
GF Off/60- 3.01
NET Off/60- -0.21
Player B played the second most difficult competition on his team (among defensemen), and his team still did better with him on the ice. Impressive, to say the least.
The only reasonable conclusion one can make from this is that Gunnar is far from overrated, and far more than a bottom-pairing defenseman.
As for Gardiner, I'll just leave it at this: in 2011/12 the team played better with Gardiner on the ice, than without him on the ice (-0.04 on vs -0.75 off). The team produced almost a full goal more per 60 minutes (0.88) with him on the ice than without him. Despite what you may think, Gardiner has shown the ability to be a great offensive player, and benefit the team.
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Crispy Crust
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