Friedman: Leafs and Nylander not close on extension

[Confucius]

William Nylander.

not nearly as much as Tanev, but it wouldn't be a shock if he was being shopped

 

[puckIuck]

just 2 weeks from camp and no contract.

 

[7even]

not nearly as much as Tanev, but it wouldn't be a shock if he was being shopped

TSN has published no less than 40 pieces of content on their site about trading Nylander the past two years. I would be beyond surprised if the Leafs were shopping Nylander considering the GM has stated multiple times they're keeping him and given they have the cap to sign him.

 

[Voodoo Child]

From a fellow poster:

'The Leafs D is crap but they were in the top half of the league in preventing goals, because they lean a lot on Andy, but even though he finished 4th in Vezina voting, Andy isn't that good of a goalie!'

That was me.

People please, some consistency!

You don't have to say the Leafs D is great, because it isn't - it is average maybe even a small notch above average.

You don't have to say Freddy is God because he isn't. What he is though is a top-10 goalkeeper in the league.

I concur with the rest of you though that he was leaned on too much. The era of the money goalie - guys like Brodeur and Belfour, and even Hank playing 70+ games a year, is over.

Number ones still exist, and so do franchise goalies (guys like Quick, Rask, Price, Bobrovsky etc), but if you want to win, the crease is controlled by committee.

If Nylander is to be traded, you're not getting him for cheap, and you're not getting him for a package of futures unless it's especially tantalizing (two 1sts+).

 

[DickSmehlik]

I can end this 37 page thread in one sentence.

"If Nylander doesn't sign for the price the Leafs think is reasonable, then you trade him for D-help".

Seems like a no brainer. You address a portion of the team that is weak and don't put yourself in Cap duress.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

From a fellow poster:

'The Leafs D is crap but they were in the top half of the league in preventing goals, because they lean a lot on Andy, but even though he finished 4th in Vezina voting, Andy isn't that good of a goalie!'

The Leafs have roughly 9 million invested in their top 4 D men. And Gardiner is going to be re-upped not at 4M his next contract. I don't count Zaitsev, Hainsey, or Dermott at this juncture as Stanley cup caliber top 2 pairing D men.

Nylander's contract will limit the resources for the Leafs of signing a quality D men going fwd. You don't win a cup spending at right now 9 million on 2 proven top 4 d men in Rielly and Gardiner. And as I said, there is going to be less money for Gardiner next season so don't expect it to get easier.

 

[bb_fan]

Who cares?

Obviously I do, I just asked the question.

You don't think how many shots a team gives up is an interesting variable when it comes to talking about the quality of a teams defense?

not if you don't want to put any context into it.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Tanev could be 4 years younger, signed LT and injury free and he still wouldn't be worth Nylander.

He would instantly be the best Leafs Dman who actually plays the position. Reilly is horrible still in his own zone, like how do you possibly finish as a minus on a top 5 team?
Four years younger with no Injury issues is worth a ton more then Eberle 2.0 without the goalscoring. We all saw what Nylander did in the playoffs.

 

[TheDoldrums]

He would instantly be the best Leafs Dman who actually plays the position. Reilly is horrible still in his own zone, like how do you possibly finish as a minus on a top 5 team?

By getting all the tough matchups on a team that scores a lot on the PP.

 

[loyaltotheend]

The Leafs have roughly 9 million invested in their top 4 D men. And Gardiner is going to be re-upped not at 4M his next contract. I don't count Zaitsev, Hainsey, or Dermott at this juncture as Stanley cup caliber top 2 pairing D men.

Nylander's contract will limit the resources for the Leafs of signing a quality D men going fwd. You don't win a cup spending at right now 9 million on 2 proven top 4 d men in Rielly and Gardiner. And as I said, there is going to be less money for Gardiner next season so don't expect it to get easier.

Cool. So in your imaginary scenario, the Leafs trade/don't re-sign Gardiner, and use that money to sign this top-4RHD. If he's not righthanded he doesn't fit your story anyway, the left is covered. Dermott is absolutely capable of playing top-4. You said that part a little weird, so I'm not sure, but if you meant he's not a top-2 (first pair) yet, I agree.
So Nylander's contract doesn't cause any grief. You don't need to worry any more

 

[FerrisRox]

Cool, and he asked an even better question. Please provide shot location to back up your comment about the quantity.

Or if I put it the way you prefer:

You don't think shot quality in an interesting variable when talking about team defence?

Huh?

I didn't make a comment about the quantity, so why should I need to "back up" my imaginary comment?

I asked where they ranked in shots allowed. He never answered.

 

[FerrisRox]

Reilly is horrible still in his own zone, like how do you possibly finish as a minus on a top 5 team?

Reilly is not horrible in his own zone. He's not even close to horrible. At worst, he's average in his own zone and he has improved, by a large margin, in his own zone over the last couple of seasons. He's trending in the right direction.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Cool. So in your imaginary scenario, the Leafs trade/don't re-sign Gardiner, and use that money to sign this top-4RHD. If he's not righthanded he doesn't fit your story anyway, the left is covered. Dermott is absolutely capable of playing top-4. You said that part a little weird, so I'm not sure, but if you meant he's not a top-2 (first pair) yet, I agree.
So Nylander's contract doesn't cause any grief. You don't need to worry any more

Not sure what is cool about factually saying the Leafs have only 9.05 Million dollars invested in proven top 4 D men, and saying that number is not going to cut it if one wants to compete and win a cup. Quality D men cost money. You do not need to be much of a math major to know Nylander's contract will limit this. Not unless you think he is going to take a 5 M or less contract.

 

[LeafFever]

Not concerned. still early.

 

[ER89]

W

He would instantly be the best Leafs Dman who actually plays the position. Reilly is horrible still in his own zone, like how do you possibly finish as a minus on a top 5 team?
Four years younger with no Injury issues is worth a ton more then Eberle 2.0 without the goalscoring. We all saw what Nylander did in the playoffs.

Man that is such a dumb post. Let’s all evaluate players with a six game sample size. Also conveniently forgetting his performance against the caps.

 

[NotOpie]

Dermott is absolutely capable of playing top-4.

That very well may be true...I think the issue is that nobody quite knows, hence the vast majority of Leafs fans posts that I've read have expressed concern about needing another Top 4 defender. Given that Dermott has 37 NHL games and 125 professional games, it is probably fair to say he's still something of a question mark if he's being put in that Top 4 role.

My whole point is that there is limited salary cap room NEXT YEAR. So there's time to do "stuff" between now and then....but signing Nylander to a $6.5 million to $6.75 million contract significantly reduces one of the options. Something will have to give one way or another. Either one of the pending RFAs will have to be dealt, any defensive help that is brought in will likely be less well paid, or somebody carrying a lot of salary will have to be moved.

 

[TheDoldrums]

My whole point is that there is limited salary cap room NEXT YEAR. So there's time to do "stuff" between now and then....but signing Nylander to a $6.5 million to $6.75 million contract significantly reduces one of the options. Something will have to give one way or another. Either one of the pending RFAs will have to be dealt, any defensive help that is brought in will likely be less well paid, or somebody carrying a lot of salary will have to be moved.

Of course someone making a decent salary will have to be moved. They're not going to acquire a top pair RHD for futures.

I still don't understand what people who say signing Nylander "limits" them are proposing. Trading him now? Signing him will likely only increase his value as the team trading for him would have cost certainty instead. Plus the Leafs would still get a season out him before the cap starts being more difficult next year.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

That very well may be true...I think the issue is that nobody quite knows, hence the vast majority of Leafs fans posts that I've read have expressed concern about needing another Top 4 defender. Given that Dermott has 37 NHL games and 125 professional games, it is probably fair to say he's still something of a question mark if he's being put in that Top 4 role.

My whole point is that there is limited salary cap room NEXT YEAR. So there's time to do "stuff" between now and then....but signing Nylander to a $6.5 million to $6.75 million contract significantly reduces one of the options. Something will have to give one way or another. Either one of the pending RFAs will have to be dealt, any defensive help that is brought in will likely be less well paid, or somebody carrying a lot of salary will have to be moved.

Or, we keep a strong forward core and let our defensive depth develop, and see what some of Dermott, Liljegren, Oz, Borgman, Rosen can do. One may surprise, and if they don’t, we can revisit at the trade deadline. Any move that involves moving a key cog is a bigger risk than just letting depth and development run its course.

 

[NotOpie]

I still don't understand what people who say signing Nylander "limits" them are proposing. Trading him now? Signing him will likely only increase his value as the team trading for him would have cost certainty instead. Plus the Leafs would still get a season out him before the cap starts being more difficult next year.

Personally, getting a year out of Nylander, IF the team is confident in the development of the youngsters or if they have a mid-season plan if the defense doesn't work out, is a fine idea. What is true, however, is that it limits flexibility in who they can sign going forward.

I'm not sure I agree that signing him increases his value, unless he's signed for a reasonable figure and he has a season commensurate with his last 2.

Or, we keep a strong forward core and let our defensive depth develop, and see what some of Dermott, Liljegren, Oz, Borgman, Rosen can do. One may surprise, and if they don’t, we can revisit at the trade deadline. Any move that involves moving a key cog is a bigger risk than just letting depth and development run its course.

As a Canes fan, I feel ya....we are betting a bundle on the development of youngsters and rookies. There's always a risk in making any move. That's how GMs earn their pay. They make good decisions and they make bad decisions. Sometimes just by doing nothing.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Personally, getting a year out of Nylander, IF the team is confident in the development of the youngsters or if they have a mid-season plan if the defense doesn't work out, is a fine idea. What is true, however, is that it limits flexibility in who they can sign going forward.

Who can they sign going forward? Great defensemen very rarely hit the open market. We've already seen OEL and Doughty extended a year out. I very much doubt EK is interested in Toronto. It would be silly for a team trying to win a Cup to save cap space in the remote hopes a top defenseman both hits the market and is interested in the Leafs.

If they do acquire one, it's far more likely through a trade. That would probably involve someone like Nylander going the other way.

 

[major major]

Reilly is not horrible in his own zone. He's not even close to horrible. At worst, he's average in his own zone and he has improved, by a large margin, in his own zone over the last couple of seasons. He's trending in the right direction.

His goals against numbers really aren't trending positively though. Still among the worst in the league. Look at his goals against rate when the Leafs are protecting a lead, and then tell me that he's a competent shutdown D. Three straight years with a GA/60 around 3.66. By comparison, Tanev was under 1.00 GA/60 up a goal. There's admittedly not a big sample size with that stat, each player only getting maybe a couple hundred minutes per year in that situation - but Morgan Rielly's goals against numbers are consistently terrible.

 

[Strangelove]

Actually we are really damn good..105pt yr. That was without one of the top 5 centers in the league and sophomore seasons for all 3 of our stars. Matthews still put up good numbers and he missed 30 to 35 games hurt.

It's TRUE too many on all the boards cant stand that we have a legit shot for the next several years.

Yeahno, not with that crap dee pal...

 

[FerrisRox]

His goals against numbers really aren't trending positively though. Still among the worst in the league. Look at his goals against rate when the Leafs are protecting a lead, and then tell me that he's a competent shutdown D.

I never suggested he was a competent shutdown D. He's not a shutdown D at all. Why would you even think he was shutdown D?

 

[major major]

I never suggested he was a competent shutdown D. He's not a shutdown D at all. Why would you even think he was shutdown D?

Well plenty of Leafs fans are citing his shutdown minutes as an indicator of his quality, which is BS. Excuse me if that's not you.

You said he is at least average in his own zone, which doesn't look accurate when I watch him. And I'm having a hard time figuring out how it's possible that so many goals go in the Leafs net when Rielly is on the ice if he is not in fact below average in his zone.

 

[Master P]

We all know where his heart truly lies