News Article: Lafleur says Vanek, Patches should GTFO

[Lafleurs Guy]

And some here act like he is that kind of player. Max is a floater but is talked up like he's a legit 1st line superstar winger.

By who? I haven't seen that here. I think most agree that he's a great player to build with and a legit first line sniper but I haven't read the word "superstar" too many times (can't remember ever reading it actually) in regards to him.

He played like poop this playoffs but you wouldn't know that by the way people have excused him.

He seems to be getting bashed up pretty good man... Not too many have "excused him."

 

[Halifaxhab*]

By who? I haven't seen that here. I think most agree that he's a great player to build with and a legit first line sniper but I haven't read the word "superstar" too many times (can't remember ever reading it actually) in regards to him.

He seems to be getting bashed up pretty good man... Not too many have "excused him."

He did what he did. He had flashes but could have done more.

But where was Lafleur's angry words for everyone else (Tokarski, Subban as exceptions)?

The whole team, except those mentioned, disapeared. Why single out just two?




Considering his status as a Habs legend, and the fact heworks for the team, even if his angry words were completely waranted, this is just him throwing a young guy under the bus. Then you add in the comments about Briere, and he just seems like he hasn't gotten past the bitterness from the way he left the team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He did what he did. He had flashes but could have done more.

But where was Lafleur's angry words for everyone else (Tokarski, Subban as exceptions)?

The whole team, except those mentioned, disapeared. Why single out just two?

Lafleur went after them because they didn't play well and they are our two best forwards. If your best isn't playing well, you're going to have a hard time winning.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Lafleur went after them because they didn't play well and they are our two best forwards. If your best isn't playing well, you're going to have a hard time winning.

True. But nothing on Markov or Desharnais? Our top vet dman and top line C?

 

[CHwest]

Lafleur went after them because they didn't play well and they are our two best forwards. If your best isn't playing well, you're going to have a hard time winning.

I think Lafleur went after them for lack of effort, DD was highly ineffective but at least he tried. Our two most skilled forewords floated and deserve to be called out.

 

[Dharvey33]

Classic hfboards mentality. Hits are more important than goals. I suppose you'd rather keep Ryan White over Sidney Crosby if given the choice too.

No I rather have a guy that gets his nose dirty along the boards instead of looking at his 5 7 and 5 9 teamates doing it for him.
Its not the points that were a problem with paciorretty its the fact that we just a perimeter player that wasnt willing to pay the price to win. Gallagher has some trouble for sure but the guy never takes a break and pay the price every single shift.
Hits are not the problem with paciorretty its about giving a damn not just skating around like a lazy bum.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

He's a legit 1st line winger in the regular season, but in the playoffs, he's a 3rd line winger.

Was Kopitar a third line center last season? 9 point in 18 games, this was worse than Pacio's performance last playoffs. Despite this Kopitar is currently leading the Kings one year later.

Its true that some players perform better in the playoffs than others but lets not jump ahead and condemn Pacioretty as being forever a terrible playoff performer.

He's still young, and learning, he might turn around and score key goals for us next playoffs. He has the talent and strength.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Was Kopitar a third line center last season? 9 point in 18 games, this was worse than Pacio's performance last playoffs. Despite this Kopitar is currently leading the Kings one year later.

Its true that some players perform better in the playoffs than others but lets not jump ahead and condemn Pacioretty as being forever a terrible playoff performer.

He's still young, and learning, he might turn around and score key goals for us next playoffs. He has the talent and strength.

There's more to the game than points, kopitar does infinitely more without the puck. It was a poor showing by Patches, except it and move on, christ. It's an evaluation that is accurate, do I him expect to play with the same intensity for future playoffs, I don't know, only time will tell.

He did play a perimeter style with a very poor work ethic imo. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Guy called it as he seen it. Hopefully this is just a building block to patches future, he's too good to get rid of, but he's our go to guy offensively and he has to be better.

 

[Marchy79]

The thing I read in to it. Is. There any validity to his comments?

I tend to believe he's right, perhaps brash and crude... But there were flaws to both their games.

Vanek played as if he wore cement skates as a hab. His hands were very good, but his game emulated Jason Allison in the 2014 playoffs.

Sure, he did have a moment or two. But fizzled during the Rangers series.

This leads so many to the idea... Do we want him back?

9 yr vet, 277 goals, 556 points. Total in 663 GP

30 pts in 53 GP. Playoffs 20 goals.

He didn't have spectacular numbers here, but the question essentially is to me, does a 30 yr old , 9 year veteran.
27 g, 68 pt 13-14 season.

Recover to being as dynamic as he was previously in his career?

He looked like a player who kind of lost a st, but had the skills to contribute. I believe over an entire season, we'd see a better Vanek. I recall that he had some minor injuries nagging him throughout the year (knee?)

However, it would be a terribly expensive mistake of he remained the same guy we saw in the p/o.

Guy's point was Vanek's absolutely uninspired play. Was there more to it? Only Vanek knows that one.
But even a guy who can be relied on to Pop 25-35 goals would be good for us, esp. If it's free.

Realistically speaking, Hamilton is NOT brewing with any answers for this one unfortunately.

As far as Pacioretty goes,his effort Was there.... He was badly snake bitten. The puck just wasn't working with him.

He has been not strong when it mattered, but he's young enough to believe he CAN change that trend.

It does extend before the 2014 playoffs though.
That is probably why Lafleur says what he does.

Because he's definitely cable of more... Bt something switches OFF during the playoffs. I personally believe it will change. I could be wrong, but I hope not

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

True. But nothing on Markov or Desharnais? Our top vet dman and top line C?

Why would he bother with DD? He's not close to being our best forward.

I think Lafleur went after them for lack of effort, DD was highly ineffective but at least he tried. Our two most skilled forewords floated and deserve to be called out.

Sure, that's true. But they weren't the only floaters. Lafleur singled them out because of who they are.

 

[Kriss E]

And some here act like he is that kind of player. Max is a floater but is talked up like he's a legit 1st line superstar winger. He played like poop this playoffs but you wouldn't know that by the way people have excused him.

I don't recall anyone here calling Max a superstar winger. He's a top line winger, that doesn't make him a superstar though. The guy never scored more than 65pts.

I don't think he played like poop these POs. I don't think he played particularly well either.

But what Lafleur said wasn't some constructive criticism. He decided to be a moron and claim you didn't win with a player like Max. No attempts whatsoever to discuss the ''why'' at all. Just some bashing.
People have been discussing how going with DD as the primary offensive line was a bad idea all year. Making such an average line the go-to one is a mistake. That's why some wanted different lines, so that you don't need to play the sheltering game so much.
Come POs time, it's a lot tougher to win match up battles, so it's important to have guys that are used to playing those tough minutes and still produce. Precisely why some here wanted Max on Plek's wing.
Max needs to get used to those tough match ups, if he doesn't, like Vanek never has, then he will always struggle come PO time.

But Lafleur didn't discuss any of that. Just sounded like some dumb bashing.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I don't recall anyone here calling Max a superstar winger. He's a top line winger, that doesn't make him a superstar though. The guy never scored more than 65pts.

I don't think he played like poop these POs. I don't think he played particularly well either.

But what Lafleur said wasn't some constructive criticism. He decided to be a moron and claim you didn't win with a player like Max. No attempts whatsoever to discuss the ''why'' at all. Just some bashing.
People have been discussing how going with DD as the primary offensive line was a bad idea all year. Making such an average line the go-to one is a mistake. That's why some wanted different lines, so that you don't need to play the sheltering game so much.
Come POs time, it's a lot tougher to win match up battles, so it's important to have guys that are used to playing those tough minutes and still produce. Precisely why some here wanted Max on Plek's wing.
Max needs to get used to those tough match ups, if he doesn't, like Vanek never has, then he will always struggle come PO time.

But Lafleur didn't discuss any of that. Just sounded like some dumb bashing.

Every time Max's play was brought up there were a group of people in here throwing around his 39 goal regular season. What LaFleur said was fine IMO and spot on. He didn't say you can't win with Max. He said you can't win with players who played like Max did and I agree.

 

[Brainiac]

21 pages thread about whatever an old fart just said on TV.

I don't think his comment was meant to be taken that seriously.

I'd say, Guy Lafleur: troll level 68.

 

[Kriss E]

Every time Max's play was brought up there were a group of people in here throwing around his 39 goal regular season. What LaFleur said was fine IMO and spot on. He didn't say you can't win with Max. He said you can't win with players who played like Max did and I agree.

Well depends. If the discussion was how ''Max sucks - trade him'' then ya, it's only normal people bring up his 39 goal season. I had no issues having discussions with others about Max's play without having to bring up his goal scoring. But if you're telling other people that we need to move Max for a player that posted pics of him with cash on twitter - has rumored attitude issues - broke the 20 goal mark once - no playoff experience - bigger price tags, then why I don't think it will pass very well with the MaxPac fans.

What Lafleur said was useless and moronic. He singled out two players and labeled them. Again, he didn't offer any insight at all, no discussion, no constructive criticism, he flat out said ''tu gagnes pas avec des gars comme ca (referring to Max and Vanek)''. So no, he didn't say you can't win with players that play that way. You're just trying to downplay it. No need. It was dumb. You're talking about a 25yo player who's just had his first PO run, no reason to label him.

I'm sure the organization spoke to him once it came out because the next day he tried to downplay it like you are.

 

[bsl]

There's more to the game than points, kopitar does infinitely more without the puck. It was a poor showing by Patches, except it and move on, christ. It's an evaluation that is accurate, do I him expect to play with the same intensity for future playoffs, I don't know, only time will tell.

He did play a perimeter style with a very poor work ethic imo. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Guy called it as he seen it. Hopefully this is just a building block to patches future, he's too good to get rid of, but he's our go to guy offensively and he has to be better.

I rarely do this, with a lot of french guys on this board who I respect and who write damn good english, but when you spell accept as except I have a problem taking you seriously. If it was a spell check error fine...

That was Max's first full healthy NHL PO in his life, and you're attacking him like he ****ed your wife and ran over your dog.

What the **** man?

 

[bsl]

21 pages thread about whatever an old fart just said on TV.

I don't think his comment was meant to be taken that seriously.

I'd say, Guy Lafleur: troll level 68.

It matters like hell what Guy Lafleur says, and he should have known that.

What happened after is pretty obvious, he got a phone call from the Habs and it was not a happy one.

Beliveau should give the Flower a good smacking also. He's the only guy in existence that could get away with it.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Guy paid the price probably more so than any player in the 70s for his team to win and he gave his opinion that Montreal's 2 top forwards were not willing to pay that same price and that more than anything was why Montreal failed to advance to the Finals which I don't think too many people can disagree with

The whole Pacioretty has to go this minute cause he can never be a playoff performer is people reading what they want into it

Did he call them out? Absolutely

Did he label them forever? Not in anything I've read

Could he have been more politically correct in the delivery? Probably but do you think he's going to start doing that this late in life

 

[habsfanatics*]

Guy paid the price probably more so than any player in the 70s for his team to win and he gave his opinion that Montreal's 2 top forwards were not willing to pay that same price and that more than anything was why Montreal failed to advance to the Finals which I don't think too many people can disagree with

The whole Pacioretty has to go this minute cause he can never be a playoff performer is people reading what they want into it

Did he call them out? Absolutely

Did he label them forever? Not in anything I've read

Could he have been more politically correct in the delivery? Probably but do you think he's going to start doing that this late in life

100% this.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Well depends. If the discussion was how ''Max sucks - trade him'' then ya, it's only normal people bring up his 39 goal season. I had no issues having discussions with others about Max's play without having to bring up his goal scoring. But if you're telling other people that we need to move Max for a player that posted pics of him with cash on twitter - has rumored attitude issues - broke the 20 goal mark once - no playoff experience - bigger price tags, then why I don't think it will pass very well with the MaxPac fans.

What Lafleur said was useless and moronic. He singled out two players and labeled them. Again, he didn't offer any insight at all, no discussion, no constructive criticism, he flat out said ''tu gagnes pas avec des gars comme ca (referring to Max and Vanek)''. So no, he didn't say you can't win with players that play that way. You're just trying to downplay it. No need. It was dumb. You're talking about a 25yo player who's just had his first PO run, no reason to label him.

I'm sure the organization spoke to him once it came out because the next day he tried to downplay it like you are.

This post isnt directed at you Kriss.....I agree with your post


He was over the top. And all the Pacioretty hate is redonculous (not you Kriss). For a guy playing in his 1st playoff run.

My question is this. Who scored the GWG to win the Tamps series? Who scored the GWG in the BOS series? Pacioretty. Instead of saying he showed flashes of his regular season play, or was clutch when it counted and the team dissapeared in Rd 3...no, the guy is garbage, can't win with him. Then the pilling on to ice that poop cake.

Pacioretty could definately have given a more. His effort level was there, he just didn't produce enough. But scoring at a .6ppg pace and scoring two series clinchers in his 1st real playoff run was a great start.

I say we let this guy have a couple more playoffs before we label him a choker.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Every time Max's play was brought up there were a group of people in here throwing around his 39 goal regular season. What LaFleur said was fine IMO and spot on. He didn't say you can't win with Max. He said you can't win with players who played like Max did and I agree.

Actually he didn't specify this. He said you can't win with those kinds of guys and you can't keep them on your team.

He went over the top and he knows it.

 

[Kriss E]

Guy paid the price probably more so than any player in the 70s for his team to win and he gave his opinion that Montreal's 2 top forwards were not willing to pay that same price and that more than anything was why Montreal failed to advance to the Finals which I don't think too many people can disagree with

The whole Pacioretty has to go this minute cause he can never be a playoff performer is people reading what they want into it

Did he call them out? Absolutely

Did he label them forever? Not in anything I've read

Could he have been more politically correct in the delivery? Probably but do you think he's going to start doing that this late in life

Well you didn't read much then.
Here's three quotes, and the french ones are direct so there's no ''lost in translation'' excuse.

No. That's not what he said.
Here's what he said:
"Guys like Vanek and Pacioretty, you can't keep that on your team," he told the Montreal newspaper. "They should remain at home if they're not willing to pay the price. Your team will never win with players like that who fade when there's adversity."
http://www.tsn.ca/story/?id=453946

In french,
« Des gars comme Vanek et Pacioretty, tu ne peux pas garder ça dans ton équipe. Qu’ils restent chez eux s’ils ne sont pas prêts à payer le prix. Ton équipe ne gagnera jamais avec des joueurs comme ça qui s’effacent lorsqu’il y a de l’adversité », a dit Lafleur
http://25stanley.com/tu-ne-peux-pas...guy-lafleur-a-propos-vanek-et-pacioretty.html

Again,
«Des gars comme (Thomas) Vanek et (Max) Pacioretty, tu ne peux pas garder ça dans ton équipe. Qu'ils restent chez eux s'ils ne sont pas prêts à payer le prix. Ton équipe ne gagnera jamais avec des joueurs comme ça qui s'effacent lorsqu'il y a de l'adversité», ajoute-t-il.

http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/e...e-faut-pas-se-contenter-dune-bonne-saison.php

So you see, he did label them. He says they aren't gamers basically. That they're the type of guys that disappear.
People are not reading what they want, the guy finger pointed two guys and flat out said you don't win with them. People have every right to call him out on this.

Not to mention, Lafleur didn't do much in his first PO series either, and you know, he played for the Habs in the 70s, where like 3/4 of the team are HoFs. During the era where we had the habs had their best season in their 100+ years of history.
It's a lot easier to perform in the POs when the opposing team have to think about shutting down 3-4-5 guys as opposed to one or two.
But as I said, there were zero attempts by Lafleur to discuss things. He didn't talk about what these players could do to improve in the future (as an ambassador, you'd think that's the road he'd take). Nope. He just bashed them publicly. It's like he was an HFboard poster, ''these guys suck, stay home, we're better off with Moen and White'' BS.

It was stupid and the organization clearly talked to him about seeing how he was trying to downplay it the next day.
The man is just an idiot. He's a freaking ambassador for this team. He gets paid to be a good promoter for the team, and he pisses on two guys. Ya, great job there Mr.Ambassador.

If he only pointed out Vanek, then okay. I could understand this. Although I didn't like how we used him at all, he's a veteran and has a record of struggling in POs.
MaxPac just went through his 1st real PO run, he's 25. He also managed to score some important goals during elimination games. Makes no sense to dump on him and label him as he did. Just a penis move.

 

[thom]

Lets see Lafleurs linemates were Shutt,Lemaire,Peter Maholovich-.You could argue Lafleur played with less then elite players-they were very good but not elite.What the HABS had was good secondary scoring and hard working take no prisoner players.Robinson,Lapointe,Savard-were legitimate hall of famers along with Dryden.Gainey was a great defensive player a hall of famer but had worse hands ever.Cournyoyer was a great player but when Lafleur started to hit his stride-The Roadrunner was on his last legs due to a terrible black.As for1st 3 years-Lafleur played 3rd line and a lot in center-Bowman nearly wrecked his career.Imagine Glen Sather asking Wayne G to play wing.Lafleur had nearly 350 assists more than Lemaire-how is that possible.Again I like Lemaire but lets not compare him to superstar status-that is incorrect history

 

[Agnostic]

I see the PC Police have done their job and beaten Lafleur back into submission.

 

[thom]

Great point-I notice on TVA sports-Lafleur was back tracking a little-maybe Bergeron or Geoff Molson told him to back off or else

 

[Halifaxhab*]

I see the PC Police have done their job and beaten Lafleur back into submission.

he is free to push guys under the bus but the PC police will not rest until he starts calling Vanek an Autstro-American and Pacioretty an Italian-American.