Kyle Dubas Discussion

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Rants Mulliniks

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Jun 22, 2008
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Part of being a good gm is anticipating what kind of player someone will become, and then locking them up. Dubas signed Nylander anticipating he becomes an 80 point player, if he stayed a 60 pt player it's not a very good contract. GMs also get a bit lucky sometimes, it still makes them good GMs.
Probably have to gauge body of contracts to determine what is luck versus skill. On that, over and over again Lou screws up. It's like he has no idea what to do with vet contracts. I still find it almost impossible to imagine being in cap hell with zero stars signed.
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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Probably have to gauge body of contracts to determine what is luck versus skill. On that, over and over again Lou screws up. It's like he has no idea what to do with vet contracts. I still find it almost impossible to imagine being in cap hell with zero stars signed.

The Islanders definitely have some wonky contracts, but 10 million in cap space to sign Matthew Barzal isn't exactly cap hell.
 

KyleDubasBoyGeniua

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Nov 20, 2020
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The Islanders definitely have some wonky contracts, but 10 million in cap space to sign Matthew Barzal isn't exactly cap hell.
The Islanders issue is how many contracts they can't ever move they have. It's going to be a challenge for years. More players will be added as well. Those Lee/Nelson deals will look bad soon. There are so many support players overpaid it's an incredible waste of cap space. And they do need to add actual scoring talent even after Barzal is signed. They simply are lacking scoring abdly.

People rant about Leafs 4 players/40 million. Islanders are paying 30 million to Lee/Nelson/Pageau/Varlamov/Eberle. That's not god at all. And that's not including deals like KOmorov.
 

Golden_Jet

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The Islanders issue is how many contracts they can't ever move they have. It's going to be a challenge for years. More players will be added as well. Those Lee/Nelson deals will look bad soon. There are so many support players overpaid it's an incredible waste of cap space. And they do need to add actual scoring talent even after Barzal is signed. They simply are lacking scoring abdly.

People rant about Leafs 4 players/40 million. Islanders are paying 30 million to Lee/Nelson/Pageau/Varlamov/Eberle. That's not god at all. And that's not including deals like KOmorov.

Pageau is better than Hyman, and lots see he will get close to 5 million in UFA.
 

KyleDubasBoyGeniua

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Pageau is better than Hyman, and lots see he will get close to 5 million in UFA.
I wasn't including Hyman in the 4 players, 40 million obviously. But to correct you, Hyman has more 20 goal seasons and as many 40 point seasons as Pageau. I don't see how he's better.
The issue with Pageau isn't cap it it's more term. I don't want Hyman to get that same term.

Dubas won't throw out the big long-term deals to support players like Lou does.
 

Golden_Jet

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I wasn't including Hyman in the 4 players, 40 million obviously. But to correct you, Hyman has more 20 goal seasons and as many 40 point seasons as Pageau. I don't see how he's better.
The issue with Pageau isn't cap it it's more term. I don't want Hyman to get that same term.

Dubas won't throw out the big long-term deals to support players like Lou does.

I never said anything about Hyman being in the top 4. Hyman has played with better players obviously, that’s not debatable. Pageau becomes better once playoffs start.
 

Rants Mulliniks

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Jun 22, 2008
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The Islanders definitely have some wonky contracts, but 10 million in cap space to sign Matthew Barzal isn't exactly cap hell.

It was until a certain someone retired. The only thing covering Lou's bad contract ass is that and COVID.
 

KyleDubasBoyGeniua

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On the polls board, Dubas was just voted second worst GM in the league, by a landslide.

Those polls are always loving everything Leafs. Just a surpsrise he didn't finish worst.
Leaf fans see the signings, trades and drafts Leafs are doing and should feel pretty good.
 

Dekes For Days

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On the polls board, Dubas was just voted second worst GM in the league, by a landslide.
Actually, that was over a month ago. It was never closed, and the next one was never made, because that poll series had absolutely nothing to do with actually determining the worst GMs. It had to do with creating that exact result.

The fact that the polls forum dislikes him should really just give every Leaf fan an extra boost of confidence in him, because the poll forum has a long history of being horribly wrong, especially when it comes to the Leafs. They don't like Dubas because they don't like the Leafs, and Dubas is, to their dismay, doing a great job with the Leafs.
 

ACC1224

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On the polls board, Dubas was just voted second worst GM in the league, by a landslide.
He’s probably around middle of the pack but you can guarantee that that result will be used as proof that he’s actually one of the best. :laugh:
 

hockeywiz542

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May 26, 2008
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Why Maple Leafs' Dubas is feeling extra sense of urgency ahead of 2020-21 - Sportsnet.ca

Only Dubas viewed Tampa’s loss to the Los Angeles Dodgers differently than most occupying a seat in the court of public opinion.

“They trusted the way that they’ve done it,” he said. “I think that if they had left Snell in and gone away from what they have always done, they might be a little more forgiven by the public and by the media because it’s more of a conventional way of losing, but I don’t think that they would ever forgive themselves because it would have been getting away from the way that they’ve always (done it)."

“I think if you want to really know whether how you’re doing things is going to be successful you have to see it through all the way to the end, and at worst you’ll be able to have the chance to change as you get into the future."

“And so in the end I think they did the right thing.”

When trying to decipher the comings and goings of the Toronto Maple Leafs, this is an important view to consider. It’s an opinion informed by serious research and on-the-job training.

Under Dubas, the Leafs have become a data-driven organization and they’ve also accumulated some playoff scars.

Intellectually, the general manager who celebrated his 35th birthday on Sunday is a patient, process-driven man. But after watching his team fail to win a playoff series in each of the last four years, he’s spent this unusual off-season reflecting on urgency.


He didn’t see nearly enough of that in the August return-to-play qualifier against Columbus where he felt the team’s talent should have allowed it to dictate terms. In Game 1 and the deciding Game 5 of that series, he thought the Leafs felt things out too much. It’s a trend he traced back to aspects of the consecutive first-round losses to Boston that came before it, too.

“We were on our heels and waiting to see what would happen in the game, rather than going out and attacking the opportunity,” said Dubas, speaking with Ron MacLean as part of the Leafs' annual coaches clinic.

“I think part of it is maturity, I think part of it is experience, but I think both of those things go into mindset and what the mindset of the group is,” he added. “We have to stop waiting. We’re waiting for our potential just to happen and we have to start going out and exercising that and making it happen and forcing the other teams to respond to us.”

This has already been communicated to players.

In the emotional days after the loss to the Blue Jackets, management chalked the stumble up to immaturity. But Dubas has come to view it as something more. As much as he believes in the importance of adding Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmonds, Zach Bogosian and others to help boost his dressing room, he is looking to see an even deeper change from within.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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Dubas on team toughness and the maturation of the core:

When a team hasn’t had playoff success, they question sometimes the toughness or the grit of the team. One of the things that we have really focused on… Last year, we brought in Kyle Clifford. He certainly brings that element. This summer, it has been Simmonds, Bogosian… even Thornton, I would put in that class as well, and Jimmy Vesey was brought in as a free agent as well. They play hard and they have a physical side to them, in addition to their talent.

There is so much focus sometimes on bringing in one or two players and the impact they can make. The reality is that if the level of competitiveness and grit — or toughness, as we term it — is going to permeate through the locker room, it is going to be through the maturity of the group that is already there. Our core group, I think, really embracing the fact that this is a wonderful opportunity, if they are willing to sacrifice a little bit in each of their own individual realms — as all young teams with superstar players have to go through — then we will really reach our full potential.
When we talk about it internally and how we are going to bring it out of them, when we talk about toughness with our group, it is very simple the way we define it: If there is a 50/50 puck, do you desperately want to win that puck every single time? Are you willing to be the first one on the puck and go to the difficult areas of the ice with and without the puck and be successful? Are you willing to endure the physical duress that is going to be on you if we are going to go as far as we want to go and do it every single night — through the regular season and, more importantly, in the playoffs — and be able to score the way you need to score in the playoffs and defend the way you need to defend in the playoffs?
That gets built over time. This is Sheldon and I’s first offseason together at this level, and it is something we have done at every other level in the AHL and OHL: Setting the tone in the summer of what the expectations are for the players coming back in. What are the standards in terms of fitness and strength and all of those areas in order to know what is going to be fully expected of the group when they come back?

The reality that we have learned about what needs to change is really in our mindset. A term we have used for our team is that we find we wait. This year, in 2020, I thought what happened was — in Game 1 and Game 5, when we had the opportunity to kind of take hold of the series and go out and grab it, as our talent dictates we should be able to, it was the same thing: We were on our heels kind of waiting to see what would happen in the game rather than going out and attacking the opportunity that was there and forcing the other team to respond to us.
It is one thing we have talked to the players a lot about this offseason. One of the things that we have looked at deeply for why that is: Part of it is maturity, part of it is experience, but both of those things go into the mindset and what the mindset of the group is. We have to stop waiting. We are waiting for our potential just to happen. We have to start going out and exercising that and making it happen, forcing other teams to respond to us.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/11/29/kyle-dubas-on-morgan-rielly-leadership-and-11f-7d/
 

The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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Probably have to gauge body of contracts to determine what is luck versus skill. On that, over and over again Lou screws up. It's like he has no idea what to do with vet contracts. I still find it almost impossible to imagine being in cap hell with zero stars signed.

But you have you those conference finals memories. He was named GM of the year. Leafs GM was named easiest to negotiate against.
 

The CyNick

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Actually, that was over a month ago. It was never closed, and the next one was never made, because that poll series had absolutely nothing to do with actually determining the worst GMs. It had to do with creating that exact result.

The fact that the polls forum dislikes him should really just give every Leaf fan an extra boost of confidence in him, because the poll forum has a long history of being horribly wrong, especially when it comes to the Leafs. They don't like Dubas because they don't like the Leafs, and Dubas is, to their dismay, doing a great job with the Leafs.

Dubas was voted by agents as easiest to steal on. Considering what Dubas was brought in to do with the young guys deals, I would say that qualifies him for at least being a contender for worst GM in the league.

Im curious why you think any fanbase would have dismay over the "great job" he's doing. He inherited a team with a franchise high in points. He took that team and declined 10% in points and now couldn't even qualify for the round of 16 playoffs.

Looking at his key trades, he moved Marleau and tossed a 1st round pick in the bin. Only to then one season later toss aside the players he claimed needed to be kept that made the Marleau deal necessary. Then his prize trade last offseason was largely panned as one of the worst in team history and the centerpiece of that deal was allowed to walk for no return.

To summarize, his first offseason was highlighted by signing contracts that got him ranked worst GM in the league for negotiation by agents. His second offseason his two key trades resulted in literally tossing away Kadri and a 1st round pick with basically nothing (Kerfoot) to show for it. On top of that the team he assembled couldn't qualify for the round of 16.

I don't know if he's the worst GM in the league, but the evidence would suggest a stronger case for him being closer to the worst than the best.

Shanny is definitely the worst Presidnet in the league. Which is the real issue with this team right now. Dubas is like a pesky fly that would be whacked if a proper President was hired.
 
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TMLAM34

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Oct 15, 2020
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The Islanders have Komarov and Clutterbuck at 3 and 3.5 for the next two seasons... That's awful. At least Cizikas comes off the books after this up-coming season.

They'll probably have to buyout Ladd after this upcoming season and they got a huge break by sending Boychuk to Robidas island.
 

The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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Dubas on team toughness and the maturation of the core:

When a team hasn’t had playoff success, they question sometimes the toughness or the grit of the team. One of the things that we have really focused on… Last year, we brought in Kyle Clifford. He certainly brings that element. This summer, it has been Simmonds, Bogosian… even Thornton, I would put in that class as well, and Jimmy Vesey was brought in as a free agent as well. They play hard and they have a physical side to them, in addition to their talent.

There is so much focus sometimes on bringing in one or two players and the impact they can make. The reality is that if the level of competitiveness and grit — or toughness, as we term it — is going to permeate through the locker room, it is going to be through the maturity of the group that is already there. Our core group, I think, really embracing the fact that this is a wonderful opportunity, if they are willing to sacrifice a little bit in each of their own individual realms — as all young teams with superstar players have to go through — then we will really reach our full potential.
When we talk about it internally and how we are going to bring it out of them, when we talk about toughness with our group, it is very simple the way we define it: If there is a 50/50 puck, do you desperately want to win that puck every single time? Are you willing to be the first one on the puck and go to the difficult areas of the ice with and without the puck and be successful? Are you willing to endure the physical duress that is going to be on you if we are going to go as far as we want to go and do it every single night — through the regular season and, more importantly, in the playoffs — and be able to score the way you need to score in the playoffs and defend the way you need to defend in the playoffs?
That gets built over time. This is Sheldon and I’s first offseason together at this level, and it is something we have done at every other level in the AHL and OHL: Setting the tone in the summer of what the expectations are for the players coming back in. What are the standards in terms of fitness and strength and all of those areas in order to know what is going to be fully expected of the group when they come back?

The reality that we have learned about what needs to change is really in our mindset. A term we have used for our team is that we find we wait. This year, in 2020, I thought what happened was — in Game 1 and Game 5, when we had the opportunity to kind of take hold of the series and go out and grab it, as our talent dictates we should be able to, it was the same thing: We were on our heels kind of waiting to see what would happen in the game rather than going out and attacking the opportunity that was there and forcing the other team to respond to us.
It is one thing we have talked to the players a lot about this offseason. One of the things that we have looked at deeply for why that is: Part of it is maturity, part of it is experience, but both of those things go into the mindset and what the mindset of the group is. We have to stop waiting. We are waiting for our potential just to happen. We have to start going out and exercising that and making it happen, forcing other teams to respond to us.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/11/29/kyle-dubas-on-morgan-rielly-leadership-and-11f-7d/

If you need to tell a player they need to battle for a 50-50 puck, you should move them immediately.

Crosby battled for pucks from day inte and he didn't have to.

The Leafs core don't have it in them. Never will either.
 

The CyNick

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Remembered couple of years ago sakic was considerated the worst gm of the league, who right now will tell sakic is a bad GM?? Those kind of thing can change really quickly

It helps when you fleece Kyle Dubas.
 
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