Kyle Dubas Discussion

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas was voted by agents as easiest to steal on.

He was not. People sure do love twisting the words of those... I believe it was a whole 5 or 6 agents, who were likely just following media hype anyway.

Im curious why you think any fanbase would have dismay over the "great job" he's doing.

Leaf fans shouldn't. The poll forum, which hates the Leafs, would.

He inherited a team with a franchise high in points. He took that team and declined 10% in points and now couldn't even qualify for the round of 16 playoffs.

He inherited a team that overachieved in one year on the backs of superstars on ELCs, great goaltending (most notably their backup acquired off waivers playing at Vezina-level), great health, great shootout luck, etc. All things Dubas has not had, and all that season really ended up doing was creating ridiculous expectations in the minds of some Leaf fans. Even still, our best year was with Dubas, and he's addressed weaknesses and raised the range of what this team is capable of significantly since taking over, despite some very difficult-to-maneuver situations.

Looking at his key trades, he moved Marleau and tossed a 1st round pick in the bin. Only to then one season later toss aside the players he claimed needed to be kept that made the Marleau deal necessary. Then his prize trade last offseason was largely panned as one of the worst in team history and the centerpiece of that deal was allowed to walk for no return.

Those are not his key trades and moves. You basically just cherry picked exclusively the ones you perceive as worst, and then misrepresented what actually happened. Moving Marleau was a necessity caused by his previous GM, and was the best possible option. Due to an unforeseen global pandemic stagnating the cap, after seeing more of what Kapanen and Johnsson could bring, and as new players stepped up to take their place, Kapanen and Johnsson were moved out. The return was very good, especially for Kapanen; likely the best trade of the offseason. The Kadri trade was not remotely close to "one of the worst in team history" (good lord LMAO), and while it didn't work out quite as planned, it was still a necessity to fill key roles, and Kadri's impact was fairly easily replaced. It ended up being quite important with all of the defensive injuries. We now have the original defenseman targeted in a Kadri trade (Brodie), and the better center (Kerfoot).

 

[The CyNick]

He was not. People sure do love twisting the words of those... I believe it was a whole 5 or 6 agents, who were likely just following media hype anyway.

Leaf fans shouldn't. The poll forum, which hates the Leafs, would.

He inherited a team that overachieved in one year on the backs of superstars on ELCs, great goaltending (most notably their backup acquired off waivers playing at Vezina-level), great health, great shootout luck, etc. All things Dubas has not had, and all that season really ended up doing was creating ridiculous expectations in the minds of some Leaf fans. Even still, our best year was with Dubas, and he's addressed weaknesses and raised the range of what this team is capable of significantly since taking over, despite some very difficult-to-maneuver situations.

Those are not his key trades and moves. You basically just cherry picked exclusively the ones you perceive as worst, and then misrepresented what actually happened. Moving Marleau was a necessity caused by his previous GM, and was the best possible option. Due to an unforeseen global pandemic stagnating the cap, after seeing more of what Kapanen and Johnsson could bring, and as new players stepped up to take their place, Kapanen and Johnsson were moved out. The return was very good, especially for Kapanen; likely the best trade of the offseason. The Kadri trade was not remotely close to "one of the worst in team history" (good lord LMAO), and while it didn't work out quite as planned, it was still a necessity to fill key roles, and Kadri's impact was fairly easily replaced. It ended up being quite important with all of the defensive injuries. We now have the original defenseman targeted in a Kadri trade (Brodie), and the better center (Kerfoot).

Brodie was a free agent.

Today you could have had Kadri AND Brodie

As for Marleau, an option was out there to make room for him by trading one or both of AJ and Kap. That way you keep the early 1st round pick. On top of that you get whatever assets Kap and AJ would have returned.

Saying Marleau trade was necessary because of Lou is a fallacy. If Dubas made good deals, instead of the ones that got him rated by agents as easiest to steal on, the Leafs would have had more than enough money to cover the Marleau contract for one more year.

The Dubas fanboys make it seem like the Leafs netted out equal (got a 1st for Kap anyway and got Brodie instead of Barrie for Kadri). But if you believe that, you believe Kadri, AJ and Kap and a 1st the previous summer was worth a lower 1st and Kerfoot.

Im legit curious, which season in your mind was the best? You claimed the best season was under Dubas. I don't even think Dubas' mom would try to sell that with a straight face.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He was not. People sure do love twisting the words of those... I believe it was a whole 5 or 6 agents, who were likely just following media hype anyway.

Leaf fans shouldn't. The poll forum, which hates the Leafs, would.

He inherited a team that overachieved in one year on the backs of superstars on ELCs, great goaltending (most notably their backup acquired off waivers playing at Vezina-level), great health, great shootout luck, etc. All things Dubas has not had, and all that season really ended up doing was creating ridiculous expectations in the minds of some Leaf fans. Even still, our best year was with Dubas, and he's addressed weaknesses and raised the range of what this team is capable of significantly since taking over, despite some very difficult-to-maneuver situations.

Those are not his key trades and moves. You basically just cherry picked exclusively the ones you perceive as worst, and then misrepresented what actually happened. Moving Marleau was a necessity caused by his previous GM, and was the best possible option. Due to an unforeseen global pandemic stagnating the cap, after seeing more of what Kapanen and Johnsson could bring, and as new players stepped up to take their place, Kapanen and Johnsson were moved out. The return was very good, especially for Kapanen; likely the best trade of the offseason. The Kadri trade was not remotely close to "one of the worst in team history" (good lord LMAO), and while it didn't work out quite as planned, it was still a necessity to fill key roles, and Kadri's impact was fairly easily replaced. It ended up being quite important with all of the defensive injuries. We now have the original defenseman targeted in a Kadri trade (Brodie), and the better center (Kerfoot).

it was 22 agents not 5 or 6.
The NHL Agent Poll: Agents have their say on GMs, Gary Bettman, teams on no-trade lists and more

And Kerfoot is not better than Kadri, but Kadri did have to go, because he couldn't keep his cool in the playoffs.

 

[The CyNick]

it was 22 agents not 5 or 6.
The NHL Agent Poll: Agents have their say on GMs, Gary Bettman, teams on no-trade lists and more

And realistically theres only a handful of agents that matter in the game. Bso good chance the relevant ones were included.

Nice post.

 

[Dekes For Days]

it was 22 agents not 5 or 6.

It was 5 agents out of 17, which itself is a tiny percentage of overall agents, and many just deal with league-minimum style contracts. And the vote was not about what was claimed.

 

[Racer88]

On the polls board, Dubas was just voted second worst GM in the league, by a landslide.

It's because he is one of the worst. He has made a total mess and a very lopsided team.
He has so many issues to deal with......most of them from his own making

 

[Racer88]

It doesn't matter if it was 5 or 22 agents that think he is easy to fleece. What matters is the 3 that actually fleeced him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Brodie was a free agent.
Today you could have had Kadri AND Brodie

No, we could not have had both, and we needed somebody for last year.

As for Marleau, an option was out there to make room for him by trading one or both of AJ and Kap.

That was not an option, let alone a good one. That would not have cleared enough cap space, and it would have been ridiculous to give up on them at that point. It would have hurt the team.

If Dubas made good deals

Dubas has made good deals.

Im legit curious, which season in your mind was the best?

2018-2019 was our best season.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

It doesn't matter if it was 5 or 22 agents that think he is easy to fleece. What matters is the 3 that actually fleeced him.

So much this.

 

[Gabriel426]

It doesn't matter if it was 5 or 22 agents that think he is easy to fleece. What matters is the 3 that actually fleeced him.

The important thing is fleeced, it is in the past. Lol.
For real, whatever happened, its been done. IS Dubas perfect, not a chance but so are the other 30 GMs. Is the team improving since he took over, not really, but results can change in a year, like if the Leafs win a Cup next season, not making the playoffs last season will be an after-thought. Just like TB winning the Cup this season, and nobody is talking about being swept by BJs last playoffs or the fact that they missed the playoffs a few seasons ago.
Really interested to see what the anti-Dubas, anti-Shanny, anti-Keefe, and just anti-Leafs on this board would say if Leafs win the Cup next season. I can see something like, Leafs lucky it is a Canadian division or else they won't even make the playoffs, they are lucky Andersen or Campbell or even Hutch was playing great in the playoffs, or they are lucky to tank for Matthews and got Matthews.... It will be entertaining.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

But you have you those conference finals memories. He was named GM of the year. Leafs GM was named easiest to negotiate against.

Ah yes, on track for roughly a 10 point regression and no playoffs, gets saved by a pandemic, has his team in cap hell without a single star signed (thank goodness for retirement to cover one's stupidity), a prospect pool ranked bottom half to bottom third with no draft pick until the 90's in one of the deeper drafts, repeats his Nylander mistake with Barzal.....

That there's some solid GMing right there Billy Bob!

Wise as always.

 

[The CyNick]

No, we could not have had both, and we needed somebody for last year.

That was not an option, let alone a good one. That would not have cleared enough cap space, and it would have been ridiculous to give up on them at that point. It would have hurt the team.

Dubas has made good deals.

2018-2019 was our best season.

Kerfoot + Barrie were paid more than Kadri was. So, yes you could have kept Kadri and then signed Brodie this past summer using Marleau's expiring contract. These are not opinions, they are facts. You can dispute them if you wish to be wrong.

It's an open point about Marleau vs Kap and AJ. I had said at the time I would have no problem trading one or both. Given that both were ultimately tossed off the boat (after both having poor seasons) suggests I was right and the Leafs would have been better off taking assets for Kap and AJ and not sacrificing a high 1st round pick.

Dubas made a good trade for Kap, but it's hard to judge that trade because the net effect (again going back to Marleau) was negative.

A lot of people like the Muzzin trade. I dont think it was a great trade but I certainly dont think it was a bad trade. It was probably slightly above market value for the player returned. I dont happen to think the player is a difference maker.

Campbell acquisition looks alright, but that was after an embarrassing roller coaster of terrible moves by Dubas in goal.

Overall the team is far worse with him at the helm. Wait to you see what happens this year. You will be in defend mode all summer. Will be fun to experience.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Kerfoot + Barrie were paid more than Kadri was. So, yes you could have kept Kadri and then signed Brodie this past summer using Marleau's expiring contract. These are not opinions, they are facts. You can dispute them if you wish to be wrong.

It's an open point about Marleau vs Kap and AJ. I had said at the time I would have no problem trading one or both. Given that both were ultimately tossed off the boat (after both having poor seasons) suggests I was right and the Leafs would have been better off taking assets for Kap and AJ and not sacrificing a high 1st round pick.

Dubas made a good trade for Kap, but it's hard to judge that trade because the net effect (again going back to Marleau) was negative.

A lot of people like the Muzzin trade. I dont think it was a great trade but I certainly dont think it was a bad trade. It was probably slightly above market value for the player returned. I dont happen to think the player is a difference maker.

Campbell acquisition looks alright, but that was after an embarrassing roller coaster of terrible moves by Dubas in goal.

Overall the team is far worse with him at the helm. Wait to you see what happens this year. You will be in defend mode all summer. Will be fun to experience.

He does seem to do something one year, then realize mistakes and tries to correct them the next year. Least he knows he screwed up.

 

[The CyNick]

Ah yes, on track for roughly a 10 point regression and no playoffs, gets saved by a pandemic, has his team in cap hell without a single star signed (thank goodness for retirement to cover one's stupidity), a prospect pool ranked bottom half to bottom third with no draft pick until the 90's in one of the deeper drafts, repeats his Nylander mistake with Barzal.....

That there's some solid GMing right there Billy Bob!

Wise as always.

It's funny because this same type of argument was put forward the year prior when Lou' Isles outperformed Dubas' Leafs in the playoffs. It was like just wait till next year. The next year rolls around and Lou's Isles win 3 rounds in the playoffs and Dubas' Leafs win 0. So now it's all "oh the pandemic" and the classic "just wait till next year".

Lou took a sad sack Leafs team and turned them to a franchise high in points in a short period of time. Then he took a sad sack Isles team and turned them into a playoff winning team in ONE SUMMER. Then he followed that up with a 3 Rounds won.

Dubas started with the franchise high Leafs and turned them into a bubble team that cant qualify for the round of 16.

Think about it this way. In two summers, Lou took a really bad team on paper and reached the heights that any Leafs team since expansion has reached. And you cant admit Lou is an excellent GM? Sad.

 

[The CyNick]

He does seem to do something one year, then realize mistakes and tries to correct them the next year. Least he knows he screwed up.

Lol that's some praise.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Kerfoot + Barrie were paid more than Kadri was. So, yes you could have kept Kadri and then signed Brodie this past summer using Marleau's expiring contract. These are not opinions, they are facts. You can dispute them if you wish to be wrong.

It's an open point about Marleau vs Kap and AJ. I had said at the time I would have no problem trading one or both. Given that both were ultimately tossed off the boat (after both having poor seasons) suggests I was right and the Leafs would have been better off taking assets for Kap and AJ and not sacrificing a high 1st round pick.

Dubas made a good trade for Kap, but it's hard to judge that trade because the net effect (again going back to Marleau) was negative.

A lot of people like the Muzzin trade. I dont think it was a great trade but I certainly dont think it was a bad trade. It was probably slightly above market value for the player returned. I dont happen to think the player is a difference maker.

Campbell acquisition looks alright, but that was after an embarrassing roller coaster of terrible moves by Dubas in goal.

Overall the team is far worse with him at the helm. Wait to you see what happens this year. You will be in defend mode all summer. Will be fun to experience.

Better prospect pool, better D, better goaltending, 103 points with no coach and a ton of injuries...
Leafs won ziltch with your hero. And he left Leafs with 10.8 in 2 very crappy players Dubas had to move.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Brodie was a free agent.

Today you could have had Kadri AND Brodie

As for Marleau, an option was out there to make room for him by trading one or both of AJ and Kap. That way you keep the early 1st round pick. On top of that you get whatever assets Kap and AJ would have returned.

Saying Marleau trade was necessary because of Lou is a fallacy. If Dubas made good deals, instead of the ones that got him rated by agents as easiest to steal on, the Leafs would have had more than enough money to cover the Marleau contract for one more year.

The Dubas fanboys make it seem like the Leafs netted out equal (got a 1st for Kap anyway and got Brodie instead of Barrie for Kadri). But if you believe that, you believe Kadri, AJ and Kap and a 1st the previous summer was worth a lower 1st and Kerfoot.

Im legit curious, which season in your mind was the best? You claimed the best season was under Dubas. I don't even think Dubas' mom would try to sell that with a straight face.

And because Dubas didn't listen to you, today he has Nylander and Brodie...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kerfoot + Barrie were paid more than Kadri was. So, yes you could have kept Kadri and then signed Brodie this past summer using Marleau's expiring contract.

Kerfoot and Barrie took up 6.25m combined, but filled two key roles. Kadri cost 4.5m, but filled only one role. There was no defense solution for 1.75m. Your scenario was not possible.

Given that both were ultimately tossed off the boat (after both having poor seasons) suggests I was right and the Leafs would have been better off taking assets for Kap and AJ and not sacrificing a high 1st round pick.

They weren't "tossed off the boat". The pandemic happened, the cap stagnated, and decisions had to be made, that wouldn't have had to be made otherwise. The Leafs would not have been better off to trade them last year. We would have lost their impact for the year, without known replacements, and we got good returns this year. With all of the injuries this year, depth was important.

It was probably slightly above market value for the player returned. I dont happen to think the player is a difference maker.

You're wrong on both counts.

Overall the team is far worse with him at the helm. Wait to you see what happens this year.

The team is not worse with him at the helm. Every Leaf fan should be excited for this year.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Leafs won nothing under Lou. LOL. The way people talk it's like they made the finals with him.

 

[Menzinger]

And realistically theres only a handful of agents that matter in the game. Bso good chance the relevant ones were included.

Nice post.

I take it you didn't read that article?

Dubas was in a 5 way tie for which GMs agents liked to deal with. Each of thr front runners received a wopping 2 votes each from thr pool of agents. Both Lou and Dubas received thr same amount of votes lol

 

[The CyNick]

Kerfoot and Barrie took up 6.25m combined, but filled two key roles. Kadri cost 4.5m, but filled only one role. There was no defense solution for 1.75m. Your scenario was not possible.

They weren't "tossed off the boat". The pandemic happened, the cap stagnated, and decisions had to be made, that wouldn't have had to be made otherwise. The Leafs would not have been better off to trade them last year. We would have lost their impact for the year, without known replacements, and we got good returns this year. With all of the injuries this year, depth was important.

You're wrong on both counts.

The team is not worse with him at the helm. Every Leaf fan should be excited for this year.

Last I checked the league minimum wasnt $2.0M, so yeah you could have got someone to do what Barrie did. Almost any dman in the league could have done what he did in his own zone.

Lol I guarantee you dig up a post from last fall you're talking about how we should be excited for all the moves Dubas made. Next fall you will be doing the same thing and you'll say Leafs only missed the playoffs because of the Canadian division. Dubas was preparing for the Atlantic division. He needs to be given another year with proper divisional alignment.

Here is all you need to know. 0 playoff wins under Dubas. Inherited a 105pt team and it became a bubble team that got smoked by Columbus. And not the good Columbus with Panarin and Bobs, no, the garbage Columbus.

But hey, I appreciate how dedicated you are to Dubas fandom.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

TYson Barrie palyed at a 45 point pace and that's with so few minutes with Babcock on the PP. You can't find that for 2 million LOL.

0 playoff wins under Lou.

 

[The CyNick]

I take it you didn't read that article?

Dubas was in a 5 way tie for which GMs agents liked to deal with. Each of thr front runners received a wopping 2 votes each from thr pool of agents. Both Lou and Dubas received thr same amount of votes lol

I never read articles posted here

Im talking about the agent poll. Dubas was clearly the winner (ie the worst). Feel free to Google it.

I could care less what other GMs think of him. The issue is his contract negotiations were awful. That's done with agents not GMs.

 

[Menzinger]

I never read articles posted here

Im talking about the agent poll. Dubas was clearly the winner (ie the worst). Feel free to Google it.

I could care less what other GMs think of him. The issue is his contract negotiations were awful. That's done with agents not GMs.

The article that user posted was an agent poll.....

Dubas and Lou were 2 of the top 5 GMs agents liked to deal with

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

I never read articles posted here

Im talking about the agent poll. Dubas was clearly the winner (ie the worst). Feel free to Google it.

I could care less what other GMs think of him. The issue is his contract negotiations were awful. That's done with agents not GMs.

It's a useless poll, They had Lou as the toughest negotiator and look at how many over[aid players he has on his roster. He hands out big deals to bottom 6 players like they're candy.