Kyle Dubas Discussion

[darrylsittler27]

Boston is not Toronto. The Bruins are notoriously cheap but players love it there. They accept reasonable offers to stay. Dubas gained a rep as a soft touch. Marchand and Pasta would have demanded far more elsewhere.

The fact for Toronto is Mathews is the man. If we lose next season it's doubtful we keep both Nylander and Marner. We also have Amirov and Robertson. Just saying...

For some reason Toronto is still stacked in the wings even if one leaves in time.

I think Dubas had a very good offseason and put himself in position to fix his mistakes if need be. Goal is stacked, defense better and more balanced. Wings no real damage done plus ad Amirov. He also added vet character and grit. Anything else we need can be added for cheap at TD.

I give him B plus for the offseason. My only reservation is can the vets stay healthy?

Rumours circulate about Andersen so we may get cap space there. I think Dubas has one more big trade in 2021 but sees no rush. To trade Andersen the end offer has to be good. In reality, I don't see us giving him a raise. Time after time we kept guys and let them walk for free. We can't keep doing it.

If Andersen isn't the guy to get you into the cup, you have to move on.

 

[Menzinger]

Pastrnak made the choice after coming off that 70 point season to take the guaranteed term and money after posting just a 45 point pace after each of the first two seasons.

Boston got extremely lucky with both Pasta and Marchand that both players got significantly better after signing fair market deals.

Nylander likely willook like a steal too if he does get any kind of puck luck. If we ever have a full season again his underlying numbers suggest that he isn't too far away from a Kucherov/Panarin level breakout.

Yep. Timing plays such a major role.in contracts.

And there's other things GMs can't control. McDavid cut the Oilers a pretty good deal on his post elc contract.
Some players just want to get negotiation done as quickly as possible, others have agents who will encourage them to play hardball. Fundamentally that factor is determined by the player, and player alone.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Boston is not Toronto. The Bruins are notoriously cheap but players love it there. They accept reasonable offers to stay. Dubas gained a rep as a soft touch. Marchand and Pasta would have demanded far more elsewhere.

The fact for Toronto is Mathews is the man. If we lose next season it's doubtful we keep both Nylander and Marner. We also have Amirov and Robertson. Just saying...

For some reason Toronto is still stacked in the wings even if one leaves in time.

I think Dubas had a very good offseason and put himself in position to fix his mistakes if need be. Goal is stacked, defense better and more balanced. Wings no real damage done plus ad Amirov. He also added vet character and grit. Anything else we need can be added for cheap at TD.

I give him B plus for the offseason. My only reservation is can the vets stay healthy?

Rumours circulate about Andersen so we may get cap space there. I think Dubas has one more big trade in 2021 but sees no rush. To trade Andersen the end offer has to be good. In reality, I don't see us giving him a raise. Time after time we kept guys and let them walk for free. We can't keep doing it.

If Andersen isn't the guy to get you into the cup, you have to move on.

In regards to Marchand, he did not take a penny less than he was worth. Have you looked up his stats at the time he signed? Worse stats than Nylander had before he signed his deal. 1 60 point season. Marner had 94 points...

 

[darrylsittler27]

Let me ask you, would you trade Nylander for Pasta? Boston keeps a tight ship.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Toronto does need to draft gritty players as well. If Nylander doesn't deliver in the big games, it's Robertson time.

 

[darrylsittler27]

We need competition at all positions. I don't know which one but Nylander/ Marner will need to lift their game. If a season happens.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Worst GM in the league #2

Dubas was recently ranked as the 2nd worst gm on an hf poll.

The outside perception seems to be that most dislike the job dubas has done so far and the results, or lack thereof, back that up.

Little early for that he's been GM =2 years. One of which was interrupted by COVID

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

We need competition at all positions. I don't know which one but Nylander/ Marner will need to lift their game. If a season happens.

who is challenging them for a spot this year

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

It's irrelevant how fans or media perceive him. If his teams continue to trend backwards he'll find himself out of a job sooner rather than later.

This is just Mirtle going to bat for his BF.

IT wasn't even his rankings LOL

 

[darrylsittler27]

This year, none but Robertson could by the end of the year. They have one year but after that the strength in the wings myth dies. I watched last year, only one I keep is Mathews. So , let's see

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

How many chances does Dubas get? Hes had three off seasons now and keeps making the team worse. By your "kick the kids ass" logic, shouldnt Dubas be shipped off by now? Hes had far more negative impact on the organization than Kadri's two playoff suspensions.

He's been GM 2 years LOL. How about give him the same chances other GMs get. And given the prospect pool and how good the team looks he deserves more of a chance.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Is Robertson better than Marner?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Is Robertson better than Marner?

maybe at like basketball or something

 

[The CyNick]

He's been GM 2 years LOL. How about give him the same chances other GMs get. And given the prospect pool and how good the team looks he deserves more of a chance.

He inherited a deep core. Hes made it worse year after year.

Prospect pool is below average IMO but I guess that's up for debate. People are hot about the last draft, but most of those guys will never see the light of day. Dubas threw away assets that could have drastically improved the prospect depth. Especially for a team that finds itself as a bubble playoff team instead of a contender.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He inherited a deep core. Hes made it worse year after year.

Prospect pool is below average IMO but I guess that's up for debate. People are hot about the last draft, but most of those guys will never see the light of day. Dubas threw away assets that could have drastically improved the prospect depth. Especially for a team that finds itself as a bubble playoff team instead of a contender.

I put the losing to Columbus directly on the players. They played sporadically at best. Shut out twice, partly because of the composition is on Dubas. They played uninspired and thats being nice to them

 

[The CyNick]

I put the losing to Columbus directly on the players. They played sporadically at best. Shut out twice, partly because of the composition is on Dubas. They played uninspired and thats being nice to them

As a GM when you invest HALF your cap on offensive talent and you get literally ZERO out of them, someone needs to be held accountable. Either you trade one or more of THOSE players, or you fire the coach and say his system was bad, or you fire the GM and say he overspent on players that cannot deliver in big moments.

Dubas' response to this utter failure was to try to improve the 4th line.its baffling that more hasn't been written about how big a failure last season was for Dubas and his "process".

 

[Wafflewhipper]

As a GM when you invest HALF your cap on offensive talent and you get literally ZERO out of them, someone needs to be held accountable. Either you trade one or more of THOSE players, or you fire the coach and say his system was bad, or you fire the GM and say he overspent on players that cannot deliver in big moments.

Dubas' response to this utter failure was to try to improve the 4th line.its baffling that more hasn't been written about how big a failure last season was for Dubas and his "process".

He had to go to a system of Top 6 bottom 6 and it was a flawed all offensive player system.
We don’t need a $3,500,000 third line center that Kerfoot is either. Dubas built the team to a idea he had as a rookie G.M that he’s going to be a innovator and win doing it different. Well thats all fine in the past. That idea didn’t work. Now the Grinders that will wear a team down being in the bottom six minimum and chip in sone and play great defense was always the best building plan. He has to do realize that or he can be fired. You can still have speed and hockey IQ in the bottom 6. I’m not sold on this until younger solid, physical players are taking up the entire bottom 6 personally. He made a decent looking enough regroup. Remains to be seen nonetheless. If he blew this he could be done very quickly. Top players have it on them too.

 

[The CyNick]

He had to go to a system of Top 6 bottom 6 and it was a flawed all offensive player system.
We don’t need a $3,500,000 third line center that Kerfoot is either. Dubas built the team to a idea he had as a rookie G.M that he’s going to be a innovator and win doing it different. Well thats all fine in the past. That idea didn’t work. Now the Grinders that will wear a team down being in the bottom six minimum and chip in sone and play great defense was always the best building plan. He has to do realize that or he can be fired. You can still have speed and hockey IQ in the bottom 6. I’m not sold on this until younger solid, physical players are taking up the entire bottom 6 personally. He made a decent looking enough regroup. Remains to be seen nonetheless. If he blew this he could be done very quickly. Top players have it on them too.

The guys he added to the bottom six wont be on the ice in key situations. This team will win or lose based on the guys making $40M, Reilly and the goalie. Everything else is window dressing.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The guys he added to the bottom six wont be on the ice in key situations. This team will win or lose based on the guys making $40M, Reilly and the goalie. Everything else is window dressing.

They disappeared in the Columbus series and didn’t score. Matthews was playing with fire so that was a eye opener of how good he can play

 

[The CyNick]

They disappeared in the Columbus series and didn’t score. Matthews was playing with fire so that was a eye opener of how good he can play

How many 5 on 5 goals did Mr 11.634 get in a five game series?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How many 5 on 5 goals did Mr 11.634 get in a five game series?

I don’t know. He didn’t score in the bookend shutouts they put on us in games 1 and 5 i know that ha. I just checked he got 1 even strength goal in the series. He only scored 2.

 

[egd27]

How many 5 on 5 goals did Mr 11.634 get in a five game series?

The answer is one.

It is also 50% of the 5 on 5 goals the TEAM scored in 5 games.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Let me ask you, would you trade Nylander for Pasta? Boston keeps a tight ship.

Is this a serious question? I love Nylander but everyone in history makes that deal.

 

[Fogelhund]

They disappeared in the Columbus series and didn’t score. Matthews was playing with fire so that was a eye opener of how good he can play

He inherited a deep core. Hes made it worse year after year.

Prospect pool is below average IMO but I guess that's up for debate. People are hot about the last draft, but most of those guys will never see the light of day. Dubas threw away assets that could have drastically improved the prospect depth. Especially for a team that finds itself as a bubble playoff team instead of a contender.

I put the losing to Columbus directly on the players. They played sporadically at best. Shut out twice, partly because of the composition is on Dubas. They played uninspired and thats being nice to them

As a GM when you invest HALF your cap on offensive talent and you get literally ZERO out of them, someone needs to be held accountable. Either you trade one or more of THOSE players, or you fire the coach and say his system was bad, or you fire the GM and say he overspent on players that cannot deliver in big moments.

Dubas' response to this utter failure was to try to improve the 4th line.its baffling that more hasn't been written about how big a failure last season was for Dubas and his "process".

He had to go to a system of Top 6 bottom 6 and it was a flawed all offensive player system.
We don’t need a $3,500,000 third line center that Kerfoot is either. Dubas built the team to a idea he had as a rookie G.M that he’s going to be a innovator and win doing it different. Well thats all fine in the past. That idea didn’t work. Now the Grinders that will wear a team down being in the bottom six minimum and chip in sone and play great defense was always the best building plan. He has to do realize that or he can be fired. You can still have speed and hockey IQ in the bottom 6. I’m not sold on this until younger solid, physical players are taking up the entire bottom 6 personally. He made a decent looking enough regroup. Remains to be seen nonetheless. If he blew this he could be done very quickly. Top players have it on them too.

The guys he added to the bottom six wont be on the ice in key situations. This team will win or lose based on the guys making $40M, Reilly and the goalie. Everything else is window dressing.

I hate to interrupt this, sky is falling, armageddon, everything is black circle jerk, but continuously ignoring what has actually happened, and still being constantly gloomy is actually just sad.

This assumption that Dubas built his team for a certain way, and that it didn't work ignores what he's done everywhere else, here, and ignores what he's said. You can draft, and build skill, and bring in grinders... which funny enough, is exactly what has happened, but you know, ignore that reality.

Funny enough, the actual independent experts, call the Leafs a top ten, even a top five prospect pool. But these internet armchair geniuses know better right?

Remember back when our management, and coaching staff said that there would be pain, and that it would take time... well it takes time, and it's not linear. These posters complain about a lack of patience in making trades, and then demand trades, when they lose their patience. The irony is actually pretty funny.

Yes, Columbus was on the players, and in particular, Matthews, Nylander and Marner need to be better. Two are paid near league MVP levels, and need to play that way. Tavares too. We've seen this time and again, Ovechkin, Yzerman, Sakic... many of these greats took years to learn to win, yet, this is something we repeatedly ignore, to peddle some story of incompetence. Yes, for this team to succeed, they need to be the leaders to be just that.

On one page, we complain about a $3.5 mil 3C, being too much money for that position, and on another page, complain about having traded away a $4.5 mil 3C, as something that didn't need to happen.

Complaints about the team being worse... when really, it wasn't. A couple of regular season points.. that's about it... half of that's luck, injuries etc.... and really, all that matters is playoffs success, not winning the President's trophy. The team hasn't gotten any worse there, no better yet either for that matter.

Dubas job is safe, at least this year, and next year too.... If he can't move the team to some playoff success in that time period, then yes, there will be pressure on him from there.

There are those people who will always look for the negatives in life, and surely they will be successful in finding things to be negative about. How sad though.

 

[hobarth]

Toronto does need to draft gritty players as well. If Nylander doesn't deliver in the big games, it's Robertson time.

Tampa traded for and now has signed Maroon and Goodrow and they'll be making $900 and $925 thousand each next year, so 3rd 4th line muscle isn't something a team needs to draft but having those types of players is good so long as they can play. Goodrow didn't make the NHL until he was 22, Maroon 25 so drafting those types of players wouldn't result in anything until Marner, Nylander and Matthews would be on the downside of their careers.

Draft talent first, all teams need talent, gritty grinders that become 3rd and 4th liners can be found many different ways including the draft. Gauthier is a prime example of a team thinking they'll need a big center so that a team drafts him to fill that role, eventually, even tho there might be more talented players available in that draft. There were quite a few truly good players drafted after Gauthier but none of them were as big as him.